Originally posted by ares834
Not at all. Hell we have already observed other planets in the so called "habitable zone".
Whether we've observed other planets in the "habitable zone" is besides the point.
The point is some of us see it as all random, whilst some of us think it's all laid out by design.
And contrary to common belief those who believe in the latter don't just do so because they were brought up that way.
I have many cousins and family who have had pretty much the same upbringing as me, but don't believe in God or any Religion.
And that's not because they're smarter or more open minded. I can promise you that much.
God didn't need to be created--he just always was. But that doesn't explain why existence couldn't have just always been.
God created himself. But that doesn't explain how existence couldn't have just created itself.
God's nature is beyond our comprehension. But that doesn't explain why the universe's inherent nature can't be beyond comprehension.
Any question posed to a deity can be posed to existence as a whole. God, as an origin point, is either unnecessary, paradoxical, or highly convenient.
Or all three.
In my opinion the universe is an infinitive space with infinite amount of stars and other objects. I don't believe in a bang, something cannot come out of nothing. There has always been something. There is no beginning and no end. Even if something is established as beginning, there is always something before that. The sextillion stars human equipment can observe is only an infinitively small fracture of infinitively large cosmic space.
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Why were the odds on our side?I'm not sure I get your argument.
It's our orbit, it's the moon's orbit. The forces at work are all perfect. If any of these forces were a little off we would all be gone.
Everything about the Earth is miraculous imo.
Mountains stabilize the Earth. The Water Cycle keeps keeps life going. And so on and so forth.
I just don't believe it's all random.
The things we design in the world, like a car or a computer are honestly nothing in terms of the complexity. But we all know those things were designed and we wouldn't believe otherwise.
That's just my opinion anyway.
Like I said wasn't looking for an argument or looking to preach. Just explaining the perspective of people who do believe.
I can understand with the idea that things may be directed. I even prefer that it be the case (because a godless universe is an awful place to live in). And I agree with you when you encounter unusual things, it makes you want to believe in a benevolent designer; things like animals that live in impossible regions, adapt to their environment, are super-specialized to the point of hunting for food a certain way or require another plant or animal to reproduce.
Yet the problem with ID is that it isn't an objective theory. It's not testable, falsifiable, and it doesn't make any real predictions. It's just a huge assumption about the galaxy with no empirical evidence to support it. And "god" isn't the only alternative either.
Consider Raelians.
Originally posted by NephthysNot really. Even with all of the "just right" planets that have been discovered, if you actually consider just how many planets we assume there are in the universe, the odds are still hundreds of billions of times not in our favor.
Actually its right inside the point. You said that its ridiculous that the gazillion coincidences all lined up to form Earth, and would rather believe in God. But as its been pointed out, it isn't as unlikely as you thought and there are already other examples of habitable planets.
Like, for every planet that has conditions that can support life, there are many billions that don't have such conditions.
Furthermore, until we actually find life on one of those planets, the fact still stands that our situation is incredibly unique within the universe.
In fact, other planets that are able to support, actually scores a point for the idea of ID, because if we find a thousand planets that can support human life, and yet they're barren, the question of why Earth has life on it but these other Earth-like planets don't, arises.
Originally posted by RE: Blaxican
The odds aren't in our favor, though. The chances of a planet existing that can support life is astronomically small, compared to the odds that a planet is just a barren rock that can not support life. The fact that such planets do exist doesn't change the odds.
You misunderstand. POWER scoffed at the idea that the conditions for life could occur simply by accident. All I meant was that considering the size of the universe, its not unlikely at all for it to happen and has indeed been found already. All I meant was that it is possible and likely for such conditions to occur, even once.
Originally posted by Lord LucienI bet I could beat up Carl Sagan in a fight.
As it's relevant:I like the video's top comment.
Originally posted by NephthysHow does the knowledge that there are other planets that have conditions similar to our own lend credence to the idea that the universe' existence is accidental?
You misunderstand. POWER scoffed at the idea that the conditions for life could occur simply by accident. All I meant was that considering the size of the universe, its not unlikely at all for it to happen and has indeed been found already. All I meant was that it is possible and likely for such conditions to occur, even once.
Originally posted by NephthysUnless those Earth-like planets were purposefully created by a sentient being.
It rebuts the idea that its impossible for it to occur accidentally because its so complex. The fact that its happened multiple times shows that its not as impossible as POWER thought it was.
In which case the idea that none of this is accidental still stands.
The fact that Humanity hasn't found life on these planets yet does not mean that there is not life on those planets.
Furthermore, even if we assume that that is the case, that those planets are devoid of life, how do you know that he didn't create them for us? At the rate of our technological growth, we'll be able to colonize other planets eventually. At the rate of our population growth, we're going to have to colonize other planets eventually. Is it not out of the question that an omnipotent and omnicient being could have anticipated this?
When planters put a plant in a pot, they often times buy an even bigger pot for later, knowing that eventually the plant will be too big for the pot it's currently in.