Actually I don't keep referring to hitler, but Stalin. People still debate whether he was religious or anti religious so I'd rather hold off on that. But no, I'm not saying what you're asking me. It's a response to the common logic of "look how many deaths religion has caused".Ok then, sorry.
Not so much religion as those who bastardized their religion for their own selfish goals. If you look at the crusades, everybody had an agenda and they translated their respective bibles whichever way gave them leverage.Yes, that is normally the case. But there are still cases, where someone is truly religious and does horrible things believing it is right. I don't blame religion itself but rather the way it is interpreted by some people. The problem I see is not with religions, the problem is that people with different religions need to live together. Not ones different religious views led to conflicts and even civil wars.
And it is still fact that majority of countries, if not all, historically were forced to accept one or another religion. Not nice to realize that religion you are told to follow from childhood was enforced on your country by those who "bastardized their religion for their own selfish goals" and that the true uniqueness of your culture is lost long ago.
Originally posted by Zampanó
Sidious, there are many and varied reasons why inscriptions into a stone and patterns in DNA are different cases of "information." Ultimately, though, there are billions upon billions of dollars that are based on your being wrong and scientists being right. In terms of real-world-proof, I'm going to stick with the method that has made people money by being effective and right.
I wasn't trying to get in a heated argument over rather God exists or not. I was trying to point out that there are reasons why some people believe in the existence of a creator, and some of those reasons are not all stupid. It's not the same as a child believing in the tooth fairy or Santa Claus, which is exactly how I took that lilttle "pink unicorn" analogy or whatever.
So far, the reasonings from others, and stuff I've read that point toward the existence of a creator made sense to me, such as the DNA example I gave. You saying "no, you're wrong. DNA is a different case of information than inscriptions on a stone" doesn't make me change my mind. I don't see how a package of information that complex can simply write itself. Other cases of information such as musical notes, handwriting, sign language, the alphabet, radio signals, or anything meaningful, all come from an intelligent source. I don't see how DNA is any different, unless you are willing to explain.
Originally posted by Zampanó
I'd be careful about rooting my belief in the temporary inability to explain something. There was a time when we couldn't explain thunder, and thus was born Thor.
Thor is invisible and otherwise undetectable by humans or their instruments, but he still creates and controls thunder. Disprove.
Originally posted by Stealth Moose
Thor is invisible and otherwise undetectable by humans or their instruments, but he still creates and controls thunder. Disprove.
Originally posted by Lord Lucien
We started calling it Thursday, and the pussy couldn't stop our mockery. Some "god".
I like Lucien's answer; mine would've involved copious amounts of man made plasma released into the upper atmosphere.
Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
I wasn't trying to get in a heated argument over rather God exists or not. I was trying to point out that there are reasons why some people believe in the existence of a creator, and some of those reasons are not all stupid. It's not the same as a child believing in the tooth fairy or Santa Claus, which is exactly how I took that lilttle "pink unicorn" analogy or whatever.
Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
So far, the reasonings from others, and stuff I've read that point toward the existence of a creator made sense to me, such as the DNA example I gave. You saying "no, you're wrong. DNA is a different case of information than inscriptions on a stone" doesn't make me change my mind. I don't see how a package of information that complex can simply write itself. Other cases of information such as musical notes, handwriting, sign language, the alphabet, radio signals, or anything meaningful, all come from an intelligent source. I don't see how DNA is any different, unless you are willing to explain.
Basically, the answer to this is evolution by way of natural selection. The book Climbing Mount Improbable (Dawkins, sorry) describes in painstaking detail how simple systems can bootstrap themselves into complexity via a ratcheting system of natural selection which culls deleterious mutations.
If this is a genuine question, rather than a rhetorical device, then after Finals are done (May 4) I'd be happy to pull some information together for you. (It's been more than 5 years since I read the book and I'd hate to bungle the topic at 1:00 a.m.)
Originally posted by ZampanóIf evolution by way of natural selection is a process that was created/kick-started by God, then that would still mean that, at its origin, the complex object was created by an intelligent source.
Basically, the answer to this is evolution by way of natural selection.
I've never understood the "Creationism or Evolution" dynamic. Evolution obviously exists. The existence of evolution does not, in itself, cast doubt on the idea of God's existence in any way, shape or form. What's the problem?
Originally posted by AthenasTrgrFngr
well this place hasnt changed at all. 😐
This discussion is beyond your paygrade. Back into the kitchen!
Originally posted by Arhael
While those in power use religion as a tool for their own benefit, it is normal people that are tooled into believing that they fight in the name of their worshiped god. It is religion that boosts their morals during fight.
Yeah it's the same for non-religous people though.
How many soldiers follow their leaders into non-religous wars. Wars for Democracy for Freedom or whatever??
Originally posted by Nephthys
Considering that theres about 6 sextillion planets in the visible universe and that we can only observe about 1/2,000,000 of the visible universe in any direction, its not that amazing.The odds were on our sides.
Why were the odds on our side?
I'm not sure I get your argument.
Originally posted by ares834
Neph:Indeed. Plus he points out our orbit which is honestly not amazing at all considering the earth formed from the same swirling gases that the sun formed for.... I mean there are countless objects in orbit around solely our Sun clearly it's not that miraculous of an event.
It's our orbit, it's the moon's orbit. The forces at work are all perfect. If any of these forces were a little off we would all be gone.
Everything about the Earth is miraculous imo.
Mountains stabilize the Earth. The Water Cycle keeps keeps life going. And so on and so forth.
I just don't believe it's all random.
The things we design in the world, like a car or a computer are honestly nothing in terms of the complexity. But we all know those things were designed and we wouldn't believe otherwise.
That's just my opinion anyway.
Like I said wasn't looking for an argument or looking to preach. Just explaining the perspective of people who do believe.
Originally posted by Nephthys
With the sheer amount of planets in the universe there was bound to be a planet with the right conditions to support life i.e. us.
I thought that's what you were saying.
But nah I don't buy it. The Gazillion coincidences and random luck you would need is just too much Imo.