Originally posted by Pwned
Yeah, I live in the US. You win this time.... I used Pwned because I couldn't think of a better name, and I am too lazy to change it now (read "lazy" as "I have to work my ass off, and when I do get a long time to just sit around, ala summer vacation, I don't really care to)
Don't worry, you can't change it if you wanted to anyways. There's name changes in queue from last year and more, because Raz never visits his own forum anymore.
Originally posted by Battlemaster
Hey, what's the deal with Marka Ragnos anyway?How powerful do you think he was when he was alive, based on Story feats/quotes, etc.
Been years and years since I skimmed those.
Tulak Hord seems to be the big dog of the ancient Sith now. TOR really built up a lot of hype for him.
Originally posted by Pwned
Well, judging by quotes and Jedi Academy story, he is insanely powerful. He also held Dark Lord of the Sith for like, a millenium or something like that.
It was a century.
Marka Ragnos can be established as at least "above-average" in power, by examining the Jedi Academy events. However, contrary to popular opinion, TotJ pretty much does nothing to establish his badassery.
The most common quotes attributed to his TotJ feats are the "most powerful of powerful" quote, which lacks context to the point it's basically inadmissible as evidence of anything.
The second thing is that he managed to rule with an iron fist for over a century in a marshal environment where only the strong rule. This may sound impressive at a glance, but it loses its grandeur when you notice that:
1. None of the ancient sith showed any impressive abilities that would make reigning over them all an impressive feat.
It's noted that many of them were the off-spring of diluted, watered down family lines which have decreased in power with every generation. Furthermore, the most impressive active combat ability we see an ancient sith use without being empowered by some force relic is throwing a brick. Simus managed to survive getting his head cut off via the force, which sounds awesome, until it turns out that for all his force mastery, he was completely unable to protect himself from a single blaster bolt. Wow.
2. The ancient sith were all incompetent, bumbling morons with the exception of Naga Sadow and Ludo Kressh.
In a "martial society where only the strong rule", you would have expected the mantle of Dark Lord of the Sith to be decided by something akin to a massive game of manipulation, honor duels to the death and mafia-esque power struggles. Instead, two lightly armed republic "scouts" show up begging and pleading for their lives is enough to make the entire Sith council shit themselves and elect Naga Sadow to DlotS after he gives a single five minute speech. <-- This is not indicative of a ruthless society in which only the biggest kid on the block rules. It's indicative of a society run by greedy, easily manipulated bureaucrats. It's kind of ironic in a way that some people contest the idea of Sideous being the strongest on the basis that he conquered the Galaxy via being politically savvy, because Naga Sadow did the same thing, and if he was able to do it, it's very possible that other past DlotS were able to do it, Ragnos included. There's certainly nothing that says otherwise.
There's another line of thought that points to the fact that Ragnos was able to come back from the dead and talk to the Sith, as well as make them all shit themselves. Surely, if a dead man can pop up and make everyone shit themselves, he must be immensely powerful. Not really, because:
1. It's stated by Ragnos upon his appearance that the entirety of the dark side was empowering his return, which implies that he had outside help in this endeavor.
2. Not everyone was shtting themselves when he came back. Ludo Kresh did, but Ludo Kresh was also established early on to be an ass-kissing *****-nigga. Naga Sadow certainly wasn't shitting himself. He kneeled before Ragnos, but he also talked a lot of shit to Ragnos' face. The first thing he says when Ragnos appears was basically "FFS, you're dead. Stay out of our affairs". After Ragnos disappears and Ludo Kresh implores the Sith to listen to Ragnos' commands, Naga Sadow's reply is basically "**** Marka Ragnos, I deserve to be in charge now". Not exactly the most solid signs of fealty.
Finally, some people are impressed by the fact that Odan Urr was rattled by Ragnos' appearance, despite being halfway across the galaxy, stating that just manifesting himself in the real world was creating force shockwaves throughout the galaxy. Sounds good, but no dice because Odan Urr was the only Jedi in the galaxy who felt it. The other Jedi, in the room right next to his, felt nothing at all. Thus, it's more likely that Odan Urr was simply extra sensitive to such things.
TL;DR: Besides his feats in JA, there is literally nothing at all in the mythos that gives us any sort of concrete of his power, especially in a combat situation. There isn't even really any anecdotal evidence.