Originally posted by Selenial
There was a leak a while back that said one of the original plots was supposed to be a cult finding Luke's severed hand, and Vaders, trying to clone them and using the clones to fulfill Vader's dreams of father/son ruling the Galaxy.I find these rumours as ridiculously unbelievable as that one.
LOL That's been Supershadow's plot for the last 10 years. He's the only one who told us all there will be an Episode VII and that he has the script but no one believed him.
That's fine. Privately, there is no obligation to associate with anyone for any reason. You can filter your social circle however you wish.
Similarly, other people can choose to filter based on your criteria. So, hypothetically, you are welcome to avoid Asians and I am welcome to think that makes you a shitty person.
The reason we keep having this conversation is that there actually are two levels of interaction being discussed. In public, every group must be afforded the same treatment as any other. This is why gay rights activists are so vociferous; sexual orientation is still a valid reason to fire someone in ~30 states. However in private lives the argument is different: you should be aware that gay people face a lot of hardship and this should be motivation to avoid adding to that burden. But you don't have to do anything.
(If you do decide to add to the hardships, other people are also welcome to respond in kind. All actions have consequences.)
Originally posted by Zampanó
That's fine. Privately, there is no obligation to associate with anyone for any reason. You can filter your social circle however you wish.Similarly, other people can choose to filter based on your criteria. So, hypothetically, you are welcome to avoid Asians and I am welcome to think that makes you a shitty person.
The reason we keep having this conversation is that there actually are two levels of interaction being discussed. In public, every group must be afforded the same treatment as any other. This is why gay rights activists are so vociferous; sexual orientation is still a valid reason to fire someone in ~30 states. However in private lives the argument is different: you should be aware that gay people face a lot of hardship and this should be motivation to avoid adding to that burden. But you don't have to do anything.
(If you do decide to add to the hardships, other people are also welcome to respond in kind. All actions have consequences.)
I've conceded the idea that doing nothing could be construed as doing something if you live in a state that bans same sex marriage, but you didn't seem to agree when I kept arguing with Janus that I can privately believe one thing, and publicly act another, while also claiming confirmation bias. This is ignoring the fact that doing nothing isn't necessarily a good thing for the aforementioned reasons.
http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=1671590
Think this may be interested to some people. This guy was just murdered in his home but apparently he was brilliant.
I don't remember the confirmation bias topic. I'll concede any points there.
But I think that what I wanted to emphasize today is that while your dual-policy conforms to what I feel is the minimum acceptable position, it still does some harm. Look at this idea that you don't "want it in your life privately." What if you have a gay employee? A gay child? It seems to me that values which condem the people around you have a real danger of influencing your behavior. Specifically, will you give the employee the same consideration for raises and promotions, or assign them equally important work? Would your child feel comfortable coming to you with concerns and questions about sexuality?
While I can't (and wouldn't) force you to adopt a positive attitude about the existence of homosexuals, hopefully you can see that your private beliefs influence the way you interact with the world.
But I think that what I wanted to emphasize today is that while your dual-policy conforms to what I feel is the minimum acceptable position, it still does some harm. Look at this idea that you don't "want it in your life privately." What if you have a gay employee? A gay child? It seems to me that values which condem the people around you have a real danger of influencing your behavior. Specifically, will you give the employee the same consideration for raises and promotions, or assign them equally important work? Would your child feel comfortable coming to you with concerns and questions about sexuality?
I can answer the employee issues. While that is considered a part of "my personal space", my personal space in this regard is encompassed by a public place (office/company). So I don't see any issues that I would personally have with treating employees differently.
As for my future children? Without having them right now, I would obviously not want to have gay children but if they were (and I must emphasize 'god forbid'😉 were gay, I'd think that I would accept them because they were my children. I've been around conversations like these and some people adopt a very liberal extreme attitude, such as "gay or straight, no real difference". I would be lying if I thought gay and straight are similar in any way (they aren't).
To be honest that seems very reasonable. Being gay is HARD. Maybe it shouldn't be, but right now in America it is. When it comes down to basics, the gay rights issue is going to be settled by the system: equal treatment under law.
The peripheral social issues will be settled more gradually as people like you are put into exactly these kinds of situations. The number and variety of situations that provoke anti-gay sentiments will dwindle over time.
To be honest that seems very reasonable. Being gay is HARD. Maybe it shouldn't be, but right now in America it is. When it comes down to basics, the gay rights issue is going to be settled by the system: equal treatment under law.The peripheral social issues will be settled more gradually as people like you are put into exactly these kinds of situations. The number and variety of situations that provoke anti-gay sentiments will dwindle over time.
I can't imagine what it feels like to be gay and one of my character flaws is lack of empathy. At the same time, I understand that society is slowly changing and I'm perfectly happy with "progress". What I don't like is how the media makes a spectacle of anything homosexual, and labels those that don't unconditionally support same sex marriages, as "bigots". That goes for a lot of the left.
Originally posted by psmith81992If your future straight children had gay friends, would you forbid them from seeing them? What if one of your friends right now came out as gay?
I can answer the employee issues. While that is considered a part of "my personal space", my personal space in this regard is encompassed by a public place (office/company). So I don't see any issues that I would personally have with treating employees differently.As for my future children? Without having them right now, I would obviously not want to have gay children but if they were (and I must emphasize 'god forbid'😉 were gay, I'd think that I would accept them because they were my children. I've been around conversations like these and some people adopt a very liberal extreme attitude, such as "gay or straight, no real difference". I would be lying if I thought gay and straight are similar in any way (they aren't).
What about your friends? If one of them came out as gay, would you accept it and shrug it off as their business so long as they didn't beat you over the head with their identity.
And on that note: