The Battle Bar, Our Wretched Hive of Scum and Villainy

Originally posted by Lord Knightfa11
my point is he is not as black as everyone paints.

I disagree vehemently with the concept of 'degrees' of blackness (in relation to race). Barack Obama has people of African descent relatively recently on his family tree. He identifies with people in the African-American community and is active in 'black' issues. That he does not fit your (not you, I was being intentionally vague) preconceived stereotype of what a black person should act like does nothing to lessen his 'Blackness'.

Originally posted by Lord Knightfa11

He's not reagan, but he was a pretty average president. I'm tired of people who are incredibly biased who say bush is "the worst president" or "thank god he's out" or something like that.

Originally posted by Lord Knightfa11

The truth is, he's not the root of all of our problems, if 9-11 didn't happen, i believe that everyone would still consider him a good president. Unfortunately, 9-11 showed all of his faults and his poor wartime logic and tactics ruined his career.

One of the criteria for being worst is how much lasting damage the President did. Buchanan, for instance, did more than words can convey. With Bush II the reckoning is yet to be made.

wait i'm just wondering, but how was anything in katrina bush's fault? its a national disaster.

Originally posted by Lord Knightfa11
wait i'm just wondering, but how was anything in katrina bush's fault? its a national disaster.

His handling of the situation was pretty terrible. The entire operation was a series of snafus and mistakes. (Kind of like his own presidency! 😱

Sorry. I couldn't resist.)

Originally posted by Lord Knightfa11
wait i'm just wondering, but how was anything in katrina bush's fault? its a national disaster.

George Bush does not care about black people.

Also, btw, Bush is a horrible president because he made the most horrible decision during a time of crisis. Now, I believe that people are fundamentally judged by how they react and a difficult time- it removes them out of their comfort zone and thus makes them act in whatever manner their nature dictates. The same applies to Bush. The best presidents were the one that carried the United States through a crisis, with good, strong leadership and effective decision making. Every single decision Bush made (yes, I suppose I'm hyperboling here...) drove the conflict with terrorism deeper into the mud; it let to more deaths, more destruction and more hatred between nations. That, and possibly had alternate motives for the war in Iraq and the intended conquest against the 'evil' countries, like the need for oil.

His internal policies in the U.S were also abhorrent. Katrina and New Orleans' reconstruction was poorly handled, primarily because Bush falls into the category of the "Conservatives who don't give a **** about people who have no money". This is also seen in his tax cuts, which are unfairly beneficial to the obscenely rich and therefore harming to the poor people who cannot survive without governmental assistance and intervention. Oh, and the economic criss? It wasn't entirely Bush' responsibility, but he failed to note it and stop it due to his clinging to traditionalist American capitalism- the most unrestrained and unchecked type. Had he adopted a more economic interventionalist policy and perhaps infused aspects of socialism into his 'pure' capitalism, it is likely that many of the issues America faces today would be considerably lessened.

Yes, if he was in a purely quiet time, I don't think he would have managed to phenomenally screw things over. But he had the misfortune of being in a bad time, and he is thus judged by how he acted in it- and, again, people are judged by their actions in difficult situations. Bush failed here. He deserves to be remembered as an idiotic, incompetent president who drove America further into the ground with his every move.

Originally posted by you
Oh, and the economic criss? It wasn't entirely Bush' responsibility, but he failed to note it and stop it due to his clinging to traditionalist American capitalism- the most unrestrained and unchecked type. Had he adopted a more economic interventionalist policy and perhaps infused aspects of socialism into his 'pure' capitalism, it is likely that many of the issues America faces today would be considerably lessened.

*Shudder*

You would get lynched here in the mainland.

...

Anyway, Bush didn't need to go socialist. Not only was it a political impossibility (Socialist is right up there with 'atheist' in American politics) but it wouldn't be an economically sound option. The truth of the matter is that capitalism works. Problems arise when people mistake Capitalism for anarchy. Free market capitalism doesn't preclude regulations, but it does discourage nationalization. The people I blame (for the Econ-crisis) are the senators (*cough* McCain, *cough*) that pushed for total deregulation. Lack of oversight is really what killed us.

Originally posted by Red Nemesis
*Shudder*

You would get lynched here in the mainland.

...

It's cool, I could get lynched here, too for saying tons of radical statements. Notably when I compared the Arab haters and advocates of racial segregation/removal of citizenship to Nazis, being that the claims made against the Jews then are remarkably similar to the claims made against the Arabs now.

Originally posted by Red Nemesis
Anyway, Bush didn't need to go socialist. Not only was it a political impossibility (Socialist is right up there with 'atheist' in American politics) but it wouldn't be an economically sound option. The truth of the matter is that capitalism works. Problems arise when people mistake Capitalism for anarchy. Free market capitalism doesn't preclude regulations, but it does discourage nationalization. The people I blame (for the Econ-crisis) are the senators (*cough* McCain, *cough*) that pushed for total deregulation. Lack of oversight is really what killed us.

I think an ideal economic policy is a mixture of capitalism and socialism. This is essentially similar to what you proposed. This means, not an absolute free market ('pure' capitalism, advocated by Bush), but rather a more regulated market in order to prevent an economic downfall and ensure the fact that less privileged individuals can get assistance from the government. If this requires increases taxation for the uber-rich, so be it.

[L]ess privileged individuals can get assistance from the government. If this requires increases taxation for the uber-rich, so be it.

Yay.

He posts!

Discuss:

Nationalizing the banking system

-and-

Have we already covered stem cell research?

Nope. But I'm sure you, Crimzon, and myself hold relatively similar views on the topic; go call Sexy and Knightfall.

Originally posted by Red Nemesis
His handling of the situation was pretty terrible. The entire operation was a series of snafus and mistakes. (Kind of like his own presidency! 😱

Sorry. I couldn't resist.)

I'm just stating the obvious that he isn't as bad as the media/public makes him out to be.

And please relay the facts to me concerning the katrina situation. I thought that that was a national disaster and not at all related to bush.

Originally posted by Lord Knightfa11
first of all, i'm not saying that bush was a good president.

I'm just stating the obvious that he isn't as bad as the media/public makes him out to be.

And please relay the facts to me concerning the katrina situation. I thought that that was a national disaster and not at all related to bush.

I did read a piece in the newspaper that highlighted the top 10 moves in Bush's presidency. 5 were bad things and 5 were good. I'll be damned if I can remember any of it, but his administration did do good things. But in typical human fashion, bad overshadows good, no matter the magnitude or relevance.

Originally posted by Publius II
He posts!

Yes. Yo.

Originally posted by Publius II
Discuss:

Nationalizing the banking system

-and-

Have we already covered stem cell research?

Banks should not, under any circumstances, be under the power of the government; pure capitalism is the foundation of a democractic nation. The socialists and pseudo-communists are attempting to destroy our society with their criminal-loving financial ways, not to mention the blatant thievery of people who actually bothered to attempt to lead a decent life via their own skill.

Stem cell research destroys life. The moment the sperm meets the egg and fertilization occurs, the soul is created; stem cell research tampers with this. It is against god's will to prevent any infant from leading a life. The advocates of stem cell research may ultimately lead to developing thousands of potential improvements for adults who have a consciousness, memory, reasoning will, and the ability to feel the very real pain from their illnesses (basically, everything that makes us human), but stopping two cells without any degree of self-consciousness from developing is murder. Kill all of the stem cell research advocates along with their pro-choice accomplices.

I'm so different.

Wut.

[L]ess privileged individuals can get assistance from the government. If this requires increases taxation for the uber-rich, so be it.

Originally posted by Lord Knightfa11
first of all, i'm not saying that bush was a good president.

I'm just stating the obvious that he isn't as bad as the media/public makes him out to be.

And please relay the facts to me concerning the katrina situation. I thought that that was a national disaster and not at all related to bush.

As a republican, I think Bush did more hurt than actual good things. I didn't agree with a lot of his policies. I agreed with the patriot act, which is one of the only ones. At the same time, he was a fervent supporter of Israel so he gets my vote for that.

I didn't vote Obama but seeing as I thought he was the better candidate, I didn't vote for McCain either. I'm hoping Obama does truly turn the economy around because he's both charismatic and gangster, but I honestly think the hype and verbal fellatio he is getting from the liberals is unwarranted. I understand that a lot of people disliked Bush, but that's no reason to claim Obama is going to be a "savior".

Originally posted by Master Crimzon
Yes. Yo.

Banks should not, under any circumstances, be under the power of the government; pure capitalism is the foundation of a democractic nation. The socialists and pseudo-communists are attempting to destroy our society with their criminal-loving financial ways, not to mention the blatant thievery of people who actually bothered to attempt to lead a decent life via their own skill.

Stem cell research destroys life. The moment the sperm meets the egg and fertilization occurs, the soul is created; stem cell research tampers with this. It is against god's will to prevent any infant from leading a life. The advocates of stem cell research may ultimately lead to developing thousands of potential improvements for adults who have a consciousness, memory, reasoning will, and the ability to feel the very real pain from their illnesses (basically, everything that makes us human), but stopping two cells without any degree of self-consciousness from developing is murder. Kill all of the stem cell research advocates along with their pro-choice accomplices.

I'm so different.

I agree with this, surprisingly. My question to you is this. IF you are going to use G-d's will as part of your argument, then why would you reject the notion when we argue about homosexuality?

That was sarcasm, DS.

ROFL