The Battle Bar, Our Wretched Hive of Scum and Villainy

Started by Master Crimzon3,287 pages
Originally posted by Borbarad
Let me guess: You hammered the sentence "Honey, what the hell is that? Are you a Nazi?" into an online-translator. Right? But to answer that question: I'm not a Nazi, but a German. There is a difference between those two things, although some people still seem to live in the 1930s.

I am completely joking and by no way insinuating that Germans Nazis. I have absolutely no problem with the German populace, and am only using mock-racist jokes in the same way that I may joke about any other race, including Jews (and I'm a Jew myself). Get a ****ing sense of humor, honestly.

Originally posted by Borbarad
What positions? You're all three not capable of assuming a logical sound philosophical stance. So any summary that exceeds either "Bullshit" or "Epic Fail" is a pointless waste of words. [Now you have a reason to flame me, which will result in (self)entertaining posts of me - and I don't have to read all that subprime pseudo-philosophical bla bla from the riff-raff any longer. Silly Nerf Herders.]

I try not to flame anyone, especially if they haven't actually posted a logical takedown of any points made by Nemesis, Sexy, or I. Not that I actually think you bothered to read through our debates, which would lead me to the assumption that you are either:

1. Baiting.
2. Avenging the Nazi joke, while ignoring the fact that it is a mock, satirical joke and has nothing to do with my actual perceptions of reality.

And what is up with nerf-herders?

Originally posted by Red Nemesis
The hell? Go heck. [b]NOW. [/B]

Let me just point it out, before I'm too bored to reply:

a) You're not capable of telling "legal issues" from "moral issues" which makes about every attempt to debate anything here pointless from the start on.

b) 99.9 % of the arguments I've seen here is based on personal feelings. Did one of you put more than two minutes of thoughts into one of that issues? If that should have been the case, I can't find any hint of it here. So obviously something went wrong somewhere along the road between "thought" and "text produced".

c) Apparently none of you has an even basic idea about "ethics" and "philosophy". That makes it rather hard to debate any issue that touches one of that two fields - even more so issues that are limited to those fields.

Summary for any discussion here:
"We have, in fact, two kinds of morality side by side one which we preach but do not practice, and another which we practice but seldom preach." ~Bertrand Russel

Originally posted by Borbarad
Let me just point it out, before I'm too bored to reply:

a) You're not capable of telling "legal issues" from "moral issues" which makes about every attempt to debate anything here pointless from the start on.


Says you? Mr "Dooku would beat Malak and Traya because he's one of the most powerful Jedi to exist and an even greater sith!!!?"Spare me.

b) 99.9 % of the arguments I've seen here is based on personal feelings. Did one of you put more than two minutes of thoughts into one of that issues? If that should have been the case, I can't find any hint of it here. So obviously something went wrong somewhere along the road between "thought" and "text produced".

Says the one who's too much of a pussy to add your own, for fear of either getting ridiculed or criticized. Either post something or stfu. I eagerly await your pseudo intellectual nonsense, captain philsopher. At least Janus has the stones to properly debate and shut people up here with logic and common sense.

c) Apparently none of you has an even basic idea about "ethics" and "philosophy". That makes it rather hard to debate any issue that touches one of that two fields - even more so issues that are limited to those fields.

I'm pretty sure everyone that participated in this argument understands ethics. And philosophy? Teach us oh Socrates of the 20th century. Please convince me that philosophy isn't the most useless subject being taught in universities today.

Summary for any discussion here:
"We have, in fact, two kinds of morality side by side one which we preach but do not practice, and another which we practice but seldom preach." ~Bertrand Russel

Prove it professor.

Originally posted by Master Crimzon
I am completely joking and by no way insinuating that Germans Nazis. I have absolutely no problem with the German populace, and am only using mock-racist jokes in the same way that I may joke about any other race, including Jews (and I'm a Jew myself). Get a ****ing sense of humor, honestly.

You know that I didn't take it serious, right? So please follow your own advice (which can be found in the last sentence).


I try not to flame anyone, especially if they haven't actually posted a logical takedown of any points made by Nemesis, Sexy, or I.

Apparently, you didn't understand my reply. What points are you talking about? Are you referring to the ungodly debate about moral relativism, where both sides managed to confuse "moral relativism" with "moral nihilism" without noticing? I found that one rather funny. The Death Penalty debate was also great - especially when attempting to focus on the issue if the DP does either restrain people from killing each other - or if it promotes that kind of crimes. And that's just the fun that pops up in my head right now.


Not that I actually think

I was already aware of that fact, but thanks for pointing it out again.


1. Baiting.
2. Avenging the Nazi joke, while ignoring the fact that it is a mock, satirical joke and has nothing to do with my actual perceptions of reality.

I'd take option 3:
Being a cynical instead by ignoring the mock character of your satirical joke to show you that some people might not perceive it as one. Then making a mocking, satirical joke myself and hope that you would miss it and react by justifying your existance [you - check], try to be funny [DS - check] or attempt an insult [RN - check].

Four-way-ownage delivered. Go on.

Jesus Nai, I know you're foreign and not the sharpest tool in the shed, but please spell your words correctly when attempting to insult or "mock" people. It would make you look less incompetent. I mean come on, simple words. And I'm glad you got such a kick out of the debates. It's ok that you're not intelligent enough to add viewpoints but people with incredibly low self esteem either:

A. Become philosophy Majors
B. Regurgitate philosophy so others might think they're intelligent
C. Have no input other than criticism because they're afraid of getting mocked
D. All of the above

^ Guess which answer you fall under, now go bag my groceries.

Originally posted by Borbarad
You know that I didn't take it serious, right? So please follow your own advice (which can be found in the last sentence).

Aha, okay. That's good.

Originally posted by Borbarad
Apparently, you didn't understand my reply. What points are you talking about? Are you referring to the ungodly debate about moral relativism, where both sides managed to confuse "moral relativism" with "moral nihilism" without noticing? I found that one rather funny. The Death Penalty debate was also great - especially when attempting to focus on the issue if the DP does either restrain people from killing each other - or if it promotes that kind of crimes. And that's just the fun that pops up in my head right now.

Hmm, and can you logically provide and substantiate these examples? I'm willing to see error in my debates if you can point it out. However, I'm easily capable of comprehending the difference between nihilism and relativism, thank you very much. (Nihilism = there is meaning to life, which is generally the school of advocating 'no morality'. Relativism = The belief that good and evil exist, but that they are subjective standards individually decided upon by each society).

And my debate with Janus on the Death Penalty was not about the philosophical nature of it, but rather on its utilitarian applications. You want to hear why I am philosophically opposed to it?

Originally posted by Borbarad
I was already aware of that fact, but thanks for pointing it out again.

Oooh, witty!

Originally posted by Borbarad
I'd take option 3:
Being a cynical instead by ignoring the mock character of your satirical joke to show you that some people might not perceive it as one. Then making a mocking, satirical joke myself and hope that you would miss it and react by justifying your existance [you - check], try to be funny [DS - check] or attempt an insult [RN - check].

Four-way-ownage delivered. Go on.

And the egoistic self-wankage continues. I can't stand self-satisfied people, and you seem to be the epitome of that idea.

Originally posted by Dr McBeefington
Says you? Mr "Dooku would beat Malak and Traya because he's one of the most powerful Jedi to exist and an even greater sith!!!?"Spare me.

Does any see the conflict between a moral and legal issue in regard to that topic? No? Wait...there is none? You also just saw the former #1 troll of the board attempting to bait me? And I already thought there was something wrong with my perception lately.


Says the one who's too much of a pussy to add your own, for fear of either getting ridiculed or criticized. Either post something or stfu. I eagerly await your pseudo intellectual nonsense, captain philsopher. At least Janus has the stones to properly debate and shut people up here with logic and common sense.

Excuse me, TDTD. I thought I've mentioned the futility of "debating" with trolls often enough and especially trolls, like a persistent liar like yourself who tried to mask his identity by socking here. As a consequence, I moved you right to my ignore list - a place where you still dwell happily, unless I step down to read one of your postings. So why would I waste my freetime to feed you with stuff you aren't capable of understanding anyway?


I'm pretty sure everyone that participated in this argument understands ethics. And philosophy? Teach us oh Socrates of the 20th century. Please convince me that philosophy isn't the most useless subject being taught in universities today.

I count that as self-incapacitation, DS. You are aware of the fact that "ethics" belong to the issues that philosophy deals with? Did you ever read Kant? Apparently not. Which, of course, means that you didn't understand one of the two subjects at all. Thanks for proving my point.


Prove it professor.

As all can see, you're still perfectly able to incapacitate yourself as opponent in a philosophical debate. So I don't have to do that for you. Have fun on my ignore list. Maybe I'll read one of your pointless replies again in a month or two. *wave*

The other stuff is just you being dumb with your "high school diploma" and "formal schooling" and "lifetime of experience".

But this:


b) 99.9 % of the arguments I've seen here is based on personal feelings. Did one of you put more than two minutes of thoughts into one of that issues? If that should have been the case, I can't find any hint of it here. So obviously something went wrong somewhere along the road between "thought" and "text produced".

Is ignorance: My post (FIND 'Red Nemesis'😉 has facts and statistics and authoritative studies and is good. I was winning. Then it got into stuff like ethics and I bowed out (at first) because I admittedly know nothing formal about it. I then came back in with my own philosophy.

I was also winning here:
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=11645186&highlight=Capital+punishment+forumid%3A86#post11645186

I was still winning: DS made himself a hypocrite:

Originally posted by Dr McBeefington
ROFL. This is why liberalism is the downfall of our society. Stupid shit like that. Liberals and their "compassion". Hate to tell you this but whether you do something on purpose or not, is irrelevant. [b]Intent is irrelevant. There's a reason the majority of society CHOOSES not to break the law. People are personally responsible for their choices, period. The only justification is insanity.
[/B]

+
If you haven't noticed, revenge and justice are basically the same thing, except with different motivations.

I was winning until it got metaphysical, probably because


...when asked for an 'opinion' you choke a little and look confused.

Addendum: I attempt an insult? That doesn't sound like me at all. In fact, I try not to because I'm so bad at it.

edit:

The Death Penalty debate was also great - especially when attempting to focus on the issue if the DP does either restrain people from killing each other - or if it promotes that kind of crimes.

me
If anyone wants me to argue the utility (or lack thereof) of the Death Penalty to society then I will do so.

Also: You're a jerk.

...

Am I missing a very complex and layered form of humor or did Nai just antagonize three people at once?

No, you're not. Apparently he is remarkably talented in that department.

You aren't missing anything I didn't. I'm surprised he got Crimzon.

react by justifying your existance [you - check]

...doesn't even seem that insulting.

The Theory of Moral Absolutism and Relativism:

Ah, yes. The most complex and philosophical issue upon this list is easily the most intriguing one, because it forces an individual to adopt abstract thinking and begin questioning concepts like the nature of good and evil. It's far more difficult to think about this one than it is to, say, think about the economy; because the economy is all about statistics and logical, strictly reality-oriented thinking. The issue of philosophy transcends beyond that into the realm of the stranger and more difficult to comprehend.

Indeed, the entire liberal social view inevitably falls to philosophical relativism. 'Morality is subjective and private in nature', a social libertarian will insinuate. 'It is not the place of the government to force members of the populace to conform to certain moralistic standards that are purely a matter of subjective reasoning. It will inevitably lead to unhappiness and a loss of individualism and the right to self-expression'. However, the absolutist will quickly add, 'but if that is true, then why is it the state's place to keep things like murder and theft illegal?'. This questions was asked by Gideon and Darth Sexy upon this, and in order to clarify my opinions upon the subjective, here is an analogy to feast your minds over:

A burglar enters the house of a solitary man, armed with a gun and intending to kill. For what purpose? Nobody knows but him. Entering the man's bedroom, the burglar turns on the lights and threatens him with his now brandished pistol. Strangely enough, he quickly asks the man a question:

"Are you a moral relativist?"

Bewildered, the man quickly replies "yes"; an honest enough answer. After all, he is a secular liberal, a believer in the concept of moralistic relativism and a staunch opponent of absolutism.

THE BURGLAR: "Then you must understand why there is nothing genuinely wrong with me killing you."

THE MAN: "Actually, I do not. Please elaborate upon that issue."

THE BURGLAR: "It is my truth. There are no rights and wrongs; the concept of good and evil is fictitious. Murder is not evil; our society, led by perfectly fallible human beings, simply adopts it as such. There are no universal good and evils: thus, there is nothing wrong with me murdering you."

THE MAN: "Murdering me would be wrong."

THE BURGLAR: "No, murdering you is wrong according to you. Your views are subjective in nature. By what right do you force them upon me?"

THE MAN: "In actuality, you answered that with your first sentence. Your truth, perhaps, is that you must murder me. My truth is that you must not: in my subjective and personal concept of good, I desire to live. My interests are just as important as your's, and by killing me, you would be violating a basic principle of moral relativism: no ideology or version of the truth is necessary superior to the other. And thus, by what right do you force your version of the truth by directly violating mine? In order for such a thing to be justified, there must be some sort of universal law dictating that your interests are superior and more correct than mine. There is none, and you know that very well."

THE BURGLAR: "Wait a second. But by having me not kill you, then it would mean that your truth is better than mine! You hypocrite!"

THE MAN: "But my choice is black and white in nature. To die or not to die; I can find no alternative to it. Can you genuinely say that killing me is your only truth? Can you not find alternative ones that will not be forced upon another individual? I have no such option. Besides, the benefit you might get- emotional gratification- is nothing compared to what will happen to me; death. You cannot kill me without forcing your truth upon mine and violating my clearly black and white interests in this scenario, while your interests can have several facets to them. You cannot kill me without breaking the principles of moral relativism."

[Awaits applause for this magnificent analogy]

My version of moral relativism was perfectly summed up in that analogy. I think that the burglar, if he was to shoot the man, could not be objectively dubbed as 'evil' because, as he correctly said in his first statements, objective moral standards must be created by an objective source- and that source cannot be a human. Therefore, dubbing people 'evil' and 'good', and pretending to have some sort of objectivity to this statement, inevitably relies upon the existence of God- an existence that cannot be logically substantiated. And even if he was to exist, how do we know what his moralistic standards are? It's impossible.

However, the man is also right. The action would be wrong to him; and the interests of the innocent and victimized party must be upheld and protected, in order to ensure their pursuit of happiness and prevent people's ideologies from being forced upon them. Because of that, murdering him would be wrong according to the ideals proposed by moral relativism. The oppressing party can find alternative truths, and the benefit he will get from the action is absolutely nothing compared to the negatve affect that the oppressed party will suffer. It's the fundamental hypocrisy within 'non-interventionist' advocaters: if you do not intervene within an action, then it is the equivalent of supporting it and treating it as if it is right. You're enabling one party to crush another one's interests.

Finally, we come to yet another, this time historical analogy. The admittedly overused 'Holocaust' one. Let's assume that World War II never comes into play; instead, the United States is informed with military intelligence that Nazi Germany is orchestrating a massacre upon the Jewish populace. In what way do we act?

A) Ignore it.
B) Intervene with military force, dubbing the Nazis 'evil' who deserve to die; bomb the hell out of Germany and force them to stop the massacre, based on the idea that 'it will save more lives'.
C) Attempt to intervene in a diplomatic, potentially aggressively diplomatic manner, attempting to balance the interests of the Jews with Germany's.

Now, as to why these ideals are false or true according to the ideal of moral relativism:

A. False. Because by not doing anything, we are doing the equivalent of supporting and endorsing Nazi Germany's actions. And why are their beliefs superior to their Jews? Why are their interests greater in nature and by what right do they force it upon them? Not to mention that we must have compassion towards the countless deaths that will come as a result of not intervening.

B. False. Why? Because we cannot objectively dub the Nazis evil and act as if our actions are justified because we are the 'good guys' and the Nazis are the 'bad guys'. There is no universal, absolute rulebook that gives us the right to dictate who is moral and who is not, and who deserves to die. It is not our place, nor do we have the moral right, to pretend as if our occasionally simplistic beliefs of good and evil are absolute. Thus, it is simply wrong to call someone evil and condemn them to death. Instead, we must treat everyone like human beings and attempt to think beyond our entirely subjective standards.

C. True. Because doing so will attempt to balance the two moralities in the most just conceivable way. Not treat one as necessary better than the other, but prevent one ideology and morality from treating itself as universal and forcing itself upon people who do not consent to it. That should always be our goal in international situations of the sort. Act as a hopefully objective arbiter (which may require the usage of the UN over the United State's forced- can we genuinely claim to be objective, after all?). If diplomacy fails, we move on to aggressive diplomacy- which can hardly, on a logical basis fail. If even that concept fails, what do we do? Nothing and revert to A? Whose interests should be treat first? The answer lies in the analogy. The oppressed party is always the one not facing a choice, not have alternatives and getting harmed far more than the oppressing party is being benefited. Perhaps extremely, extremely restrained military usage is in order. If even that fails? I don't know. I suppose we must judge it depending on the situation.

Now, B is the one generally advocated by conservatives; A is the one advocated by falsely compassionate liberals or nihilists, while C is the logical relativist response. Now, taking forth the option of C may, in the most extreme of cases, lead to the necessity of heavy military action (as proposed in B)- but unlike B, it does not treat it as a first resort based on simplistic generalizations and concepts. Just War vs. Total War.

However, even aside from absolutism and relativism, there are two related philosophies: deontology and consequentialism (very close to utilitarianism in that sense). It is arguable that absolutism is more related to the former, while relativism is more related to the latter. In the school of deontology, an action is mostly defined by its 'very nature'. In the school of consequentialism, an action is defined by the way if affects society. In short, an action is defined by its consequence, not it's 'very nature'. As a moral relativist myself, I obviously find consequentialism to be far more compelling: murder is wrong not because of its 'very nature' (who dictates that very nature, after all?), but rather because of the affects it has upon the society- the death of an individual. I thus lean more towards utilitarianism and consequentialism than I do towards deontology, but there is a definitive problem with the former.

As Janus previously said, Immanuel Kant divided the 'morality' of an action into three different categories: the intent, the act, and the consequence. While he placed them in an entirely impractical order that puts the intent and the 'nature' of an act (lol) before the actual ramifications of it, a consequentialist will probably look at the consequence of an action being its most important trait. The problem with this line of thought is that a consequentialist will not hesitate to engage in arguably nasty 'acts' in order to secure positive 'consequences'; however, I think that we can all agree with the fact that looking towards alternative 'acts' in order to assure similar consequences.

Let's assume that we have the intelligence that 1000 people will inevitably die. We, however, are armed with the knowledge that killing 100 who will not die as a result of that will save these 1,000 people. My fear is that a consequentialist will immediately say 'do it'! After all, the consequence is more positive than the act itself. However, the finest policy is to explore every possible alternative to that route instead of immediately jumping upon the consequentialist idea; is an action not morally superior if both the act and the consequence positive in nature?

That's the problem with war policy that advocates the concept of the 'means justify the end'. We must control our means. The 'end' is a very hypothetical concept; and only by very, very strictly monitoring our means and consistently looking towards more peaceful alternatives than simplistic 'good and evil' + violent methods, can we ensure the fact that our end will justify the means. If a country commits a massacre, do we intervene and kill many because it may 'save more'? Or do we attempt to intervene in a peaceful manner and monitor our means as tightly as possible in order to ensure that it will save more than it harms? I choose the latter.

A deontological line of thought is impractical, but a consequentialist line of thought may lead to the complete ignoring of the means and focusing of the 'ends'.

I think that's my philosophy. An explanation as to why laws prohibiting murder and theft are necessary, how relativism applies to interventionism, and the way that, despite the fact that the consequence may be more important than the means, that those must be watched in order to ensure that they will justify the consequence.

Now tell me that post wasn't beautiful, friend-o's. Oh, shit, I forgot to offer a deeper explanation as to why we cannot objectively dub things evil- I'll get to that in a later post.

Originally posted by Red Nemesis
Is ignorance: My post (FIND 'Red Nemesis'😉 has facts and statistics and authoritative studies and is good. I was winning. Then it got into stuff like ethics and I bowed out (at first) because I admittedly know nothing formal about it. I then came back in with my own philosophy.

Cool. I accuse you of having no idea about ethics and philosophy and you reply with admitting that you have no idea about said issues. That's nice...but it doesn't get you anywhere, does it?

And you know the difference between "facts" and "conclusions"? And you also know about that nice word called "motivation". Tell me: Did you search for sources promoting your personal position because you felt that position was "right"? If the answer is "Yes", then you acted based on your feelings, didn't you?

@Crimzon:

Originally posted by Master Crimzon
And my debate with Janus on the Death Penalty was not about the philosophical nature of it, but rather on its utilitarian applications. You want to hear why I am philosophically opposed to it?

It's astonishing how many things you can learn here. Now utilitarism has nothing to do with philosophy any longer. Bentham? Mill? Do that names sound familiar?


And the egoistic self-wankage continues. I can't stand self-satisfied people, and you seem to be the epitome of that idea.

I can't stand self-satisfied people either. And you have to be one, if you attempt to judge people you don't know. So welcome on board of the MS SS (that stands for "Motor ship" and "self-satisfaction" but of course it's another sublime Nazi joke).

@Faunus:

Originally posted by Eminence
...

Am I missing a very complex and layered form of humor or did Nai just antagonize three people at once?

Well, Faunus. I yelled "action" and the puppets started dancing. Which was exactly what I wanted. As I said: I was bored. Now I have cheap entertainment.

Cool. I accuse you of having no idea about ethics and philosophy and you reply with admitting that you have no idea about said issues. That's nice...but it doesn't get you anywhere, does it?

[weak insult that Nai expects]
I was responding to the 'no thought' accusation. I showed posts that effectively reinforced my position (which qualifies as 'thought' within a debate). I have no problem admitting that I've yet to receive formal philosophical instruction. If that's the most damning accusation you've got then I'm doing ok.


And you know the difference between "facts" and "conclusions"? And you also know about that nice word called "motivation". Tell me: Did you search for sources promoting your personal position because you felt that position was "right"? If the answer is "Yes", then you acted based on your feelings, didn't you?

Nope. I had data first, then made my decision. That I showed the most convincing data I have yet been exposed to, expecting to find that it was convincing to others as well. (Are you really going to criticize me for having an opinion? I formulated that opinion long before this debate but that doesn't mean I was (particularly) biased during the formation of the opinion.)

Alright- so why do absolute goods and evils not exist?

Simply because the fact that even the viewpoint held by most societies in entirely subjective in nature. A subjective view that most agree upon is still a subjective view; it does not make it universal or absolute. DS's former argument as to why universal absolutes exist inevitably came down to the point that 'murder, theft, and rape' were always illegal, except for being justified with 'skewed' political agendas.

'Skewed' political agendas and religious interpretations is the easiest one factor to touch upon. While I agree that logic, to a form, is universal in nature (I have no problem with saying that somebody who says that the Bible suggests that God is a pink rabbit with pencils for years is wrong), interpretations done by intelligent individuals is completely subjective in nature. Logic is not an entirely universal concept; everybody operates on different concepts of logic, and rationality is a point of view. Even the Sages are inevitably prisoners to their own falliblity and the fact that their logic, while largely accepted, is not some sort of omnipotent and universal force. They are not verifable sources for 'true' religious interpretations.

Similarly, radical and skewed political agendas is a point of view. When we analyze politics, we generally look at the accepted political spectrum. We do not understand that even that was hatched by a fallible mortal and not an omnipotent God. Thus, philosophical and political agendas and their supposed 'rightness' is simply a subjective thing.

Murder, theft, and rape are all legal terms. Natural law is a myth. Law is created by mankind in order to create their form of functioning society. And definitions of murder have consistently varied over the ages. It was not considered murder to avenge a dead friend or family member in ancient times: an individual who does that in our society will be tried as a murderer. Similarly, it was not considered murder to kill an incompetent slave, while killing an incompetent worker today will be looked upon as murder and be harshly punished.

But some variation of it have always existed- clearly that is proof that these things are absolutely moral! No, it actually isn't, because these are the basic building stones of a legal system. A society with no variation of the murder law will not function; the strong will crush the weak and it will degenerate into a state of chaotic anarchy, where no individual's interests are served. Is this because murder is immoral? Or is murder immoral because of it? It is obviously the latter.

Let's say, however, that murder is legalized and we currently live in an anarchy. Is it a 'bad world'? No; it is a bad world for the humans inhabiting them. It is their point of view and is thus subjective, and our very concept of a functioning society is all subjective in nature. That's why we must add 'To...' whenever we call somebody 'evil'; our views are all subjective in nature because of our status as human beings, and moral objectivism inevitably calls upon the existence of a God in order to verify its claims. That obviously does not work, and therefore moral absolutism fails.

Originally posted by Dr McBeefington
Sorry Nai, if you can't outdebate a 17 year old [...]
Gideon's eighteen, I'm pretty sure.

'Course, Nai can't handle me either. *baitbaitbait*

Originally posted by Borbarad
Well, Faunus. I yelled "action" and the puppets started dancing. Which was exactly what I wanted. As I said: I was bored. Now I have cheap entertainment.
You don't find it stupid/embarrassing/absurd that you need to antagonize random people over the internet to entertain yourself? I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt in assuming that you've already tried something else (YouTube, TV, talking, etc.), because online trolling probably shouldn't be your first line of defense against boredom.

Originally posted by Borbarad
@Crimzon:

It's astonishing how many things you can learn here. Now utilitarism has nothing to do with philosophy any longer. Bentham? Mill? Do that names sound familiar?

I meant how the death penalty was practically affecting the world. My debate with Janus was not philosophical in nature; it was purely focused upon the pragmatic effects of the death penalty. Now, philosophy would be asking if that is the only things that matter (utilitarian point of view), which I somewhat agree with, but that is not the point.

Originally posted by Borbarad
I can't stand self-satisfied people either. And you have to be one, if you attempt to judge people you don't know. So welcome on board of the MS SS (that stands for "Motor ship" and "self-satisfaction" but of course it's another sublime Nazi joke).

1. I didn't know you were a German. The Nazi joke was something we ran on the forum since long before you butted in, and I was simply continuing it. It had nothing to with whatever I think of it.

2. Lol, I didn't call you a 'moron' or 'someone incapable of thinking' or whatever. You judged me before you ever talked to me, which is incredibly said. I did not flame you; the problem is, your posts (where you glorify your own wittiness and ownage capability) clearly show a degree of egoistical self-satisfaction. I didn't start this mess nor did I bait you into a flame war, something I try to avoid.

Originally posted by Borbarad
Does any see the conflict between a moral and legal issue in regard to that topic? No? Wait...there is none? You also just saw the former #1 troll of the board attempting to bait me? And I already thought there was something wrong with my perception lately.

Who decides who the #1 troll on the forum is Nai? Surely not you, who is the subject of ridicule in most arguments.

Excuse me, TDTD. I thought I've mentioned the futility of "debating" with trolls often enough and especially trolls, like a persistent liar like yourself who tried to mask his identity by socking here. As a consequence, I moved you right to my ignore list - a place where you still dwell happily, unless I step down to read one of your postings. So why would I waste my freetime to feed you with stuff you aren't capable of understanding anyway?

Awww what's the matter Nai? No more arguments? Last resort of continually calling me tdtd when nothing of the sort has been proven? And what's this I hear about me not being able understand your arguments? That would make sense if you weren't regularly getting your ass handed to you by high school kids. Where are my fries btw?

I count that as self-incapacitation, DS. You are aware of the fact that "ethics" belong to the issues that philosophy deals with? Did you ever read Kant? Apparently not. Which, of course, means that you didn't understand one of the two subjects at all. Thanks for proving my point.

Oh my lord, I haven't read Kant, and if I haven't read Kant, I CLEARLY don't understand ethics. With that kind of logic, it's no wonder liberal arts majors end up getting their asses handed to them on a star wars forum. You really should stop embarrassing yourself and go blog at your nearest German Starbucks.

As all can see, you're still perfectly able to incapacitate yourself as opponent in a philosophical debate. So I don't have to do that for you. Have fun on my ignore list. Maybe I'll read one of your pointless replies again in a month or two. *wave*

Maybe. Or maybe you'll disappear again, after continuously getting your ass handed to you, only to return and repeat the same process. Way to go smartass, now get back to your minimum wage job.