Originally posted by Gideon
You either read 25 pages awfully quick or you've made up your mind about this argument in advance and nothing can change it.If it's the former, I'm impressed. If it's the latter, you might as well stop posting now because I'm definitely not interested in talking any further with anyone who so much as hints at being a Batman-Nolan-Heath Ledger fetishist.
from what I can tell
Haha, dumbass.
Though this sums up all the shenanigans quite well.
I'm not arguing that the movie is well written, easy to follow, or anything other than the weakest of the six. I'm solely arguing that despite the poor presentation and mangled writing, Sidious's plans do make sense in the context of the larger Star Wars universe.
S
That makes sense.
Like everything else I say. 😖hifty:
So, anywho, I know how the Dark Knight is something that is very near and dear to a lot of people's hearts. I was surprised with a friend's seemingly uncharacteristic responses and he explained to me that the movie really captured his interests and emotions in a way that few other hand, hinting at a source of extreme bias.
That's fine, but I suppose I pursue the issue because there's never been anything in my life that I have not been able to criticise in an objective way: myself, my girlfriends, my friends, my family, my interests, my entertainment, my fvcking religion, so a movie being taboo is seemingly foreign to me.
Which is why if you are one of those people who believes criticising the movie is taboo or unacceptable, then you might as well just agree to disagree.
Originally posted by Gideon
Like everything else I say. 😖hifty:So, anywho, I know how the Dark Knight is something that is very near and dear to a lot of people's hearts. I was surprised with a friend's seemingly uncharacteristic responses and he explained to me that the movie really captured his interests and emotions in a way that few other hand, hinting at a source of extreme bias.
That's fine, but I suppose I pursue the issue because there's never been anything in my life that I have not been able to criticise in an objective way: myself, my girlfriends, my friends, my family, my interests, my entertainment, my fvcking religion, so a movie being taboo is seemingly foreign to me.
Which is why if you are one of those people who believes criticising the movie is taboo or unacceptable, then you might as well just agree to disagree.
I thought everyone was over TDK already... Seems like we're now just exposing TPM as a bad movie.
I'm not going to read any further, because I feel the need to respond to that Wong guy but the thread is too old, so I'm just going to quite while I'm ahead.
It's been revealed for a long time that Wong is a raging moron with temper problems. He reminds me of IKC.
edit- In any case.
O.k. I'm on page 2 and I already want to punch Wong in the throat. So two questions 1. Does it get better? 2. Is he really a DS account?
'Fact is, the actions Sidious took endangered his own plan. What if the Jedi decided that it was two dangerous to run the blockade and instead decided to resolve the situation on the ground? The follow the plan they executed at the end of the movie and resolve the crises right then and there?'
Thats a pretty good point actually.
It doesn't really get better. After realizing that he's been thoroughly crushed and is now just making an ass of himself, he backs out of the thread for a minute. Others take his place, they too get crushed... it continues on for like 20 pages.
What's funny to me is that it's only the raging die hard Star Wars fanboys who feel the need to toss around the insults like that.
'Half the things you say here are based on your own assumptions and inferences; none of this is stated or even implied in the actual movie. You have no way of knowing whether or not the Jedi ambassadors would willingly leave or not if the Trade Federation told them to. The problem is, you are arguing as if the point of contention here is whether or not the events in Phantom Menace are plausible in universe, when in fact the point of contention is whether the actual writing is solid. The fact that you have to make all these inferences about the motivations behind Palpatine's various actions demonstrates that the actual script itself is very muddled, which is really the whole point that stormthebeaches, as well as the RedLetterMedia review is trying to make.
The invasion of Naboo is the whole ****ing plot of the movie – all the stakes, all the danger, all the suspense that the audience is supposed to feel rests on this invasion. Throughout the movie, we have to watch countless scenes of Trade Federation battle droids marching around, and various Trade Federation officials threatening people, etc., and yet there is literally no ****ing suspense because nobody's goals or motivations are compelling. Why the **** is the Trade Federation even invading Naboo, and why should we (the audience) be nervous that their plan will succeed? We don't even know specifically what they hope to gain. We can only infer that Palpatine promised them something, or that maybe invading Naboo will somehow benefit them financially, or whatever. The fact that you or any TPM apologist can infer actual motivations behind all of this is beside the point. The point is that the movie itself utterly fails to get the audience really involved in any of this shit because everything is so unclear, and the entire invasion plot basically amounts to nothing more than a convoluted way for Palpatine to get a promotion.
So basically we have a movie with relatively boring characters fighting bad guys who barely have any motivation, and we don't really know what the consequences will be if the good guys fail. That's why anyone who says the Original Trilogy is just as flawed as the Prequels is totally full of shit. The motivation behind everyone's actions in the original trilogy is pretty ****ing clear, with a few exceptions, and the stakes are generally pretty compelling.'
This is also a good point.
N
Are you going to reply to me or what?
Where did I neglect to do so?
Blax
It doesn't really get better. After realizing that he's been thoroughly crushed and is now just making an ass of himself, he backs out of the thread for a minute. Others take his place, they too get crushed... it continues on for like 20 pages.
😂
Blax
It's been revealed for a long time that Wong is a raging moron with temper problems. He reminds me of IKC.
😂
Blax
What's funny to me is that it's only the raging die hard Star Wars fanboys who feel the need to toss around the insults like that.
😂 😂 😂 😂 😂
N
No need to get insulting,
If you'd like for this to be a professional discussion, all you need to do is ask.
Spoiler:
But that requires similar conduct from you. No insults, no jabs, no snide remarks, and no dishonesty. If you cannot or will not provide such discourse, then your only other option is to not debate this at all.
N
and I didn't concede.
Yes, you did. You just didn't admit to doing it.
N
So you think Batman should take advantage of a moral loophole and not save someones life when he can? The fact is, Batman is a complex fellow, and doesn't see eye to eye with you on matters legal and moral. Thats not Nolan's fault. So lay the f off him. And again, can you lay off the insults? I know it must be embaressing when about a dozen people disagree with you collectively, but you don't need to take it out on me.
It is Nolan's fault, because he wrote and directed the damn thing.
Spoiler:
Thanks for conceding the whole murder argument, too. 😂
BAT-BALEI saved you, Heath. That proves how committed I am to my sissy-pants moral code.
HEATH LEDGER
Huh. You didn’t seem to have a problem letting Liam Neeson die in the last movie, and all he did was blow up your house. I guess you loved your mansion more than Maggie Gyllenhaal. I don’t blame you, honestly.
BAT-BALE
I had to save you! You need to be in the next movie!
HEATH LEDGER
Yeah… about that…
^ That sums up my views entirely on Batman's so-called "complex" sense of morality.
N
Hence why I provided and realistic method of doing so. I could probably do it for crying out loud![/b]
No, you simply claimed that he could estimate the time.
N
Here's what Wookie says about Sifo-Dyas, including that Palpatine always planned to use the clones.
...
You're missing the point, cubscout: Kenobi didn't have to trace the dart to Kamino in order for the Republic to discover the existence of the clone army.
N
You say that its 'realistic'. Besides its [b]obvious to anyone over 10 that the Empire is a Nazi Germany-clone. Their officers dress the same, they have Stormtroopers, their deeply racist and they're ruled over by a dictator who rose to power during a crisis he had a hand in creating, who has his underlings fight between themselves so they can't fight him and makes it so that with his death the Empire go's to rot. The Empire is the effing Nazi's.[/b]
And what does any of this have to do with Palpatine (not the Empire) being a clone of Hitler (not Nazi Germany)?
N
Rottentomatoes bases its percentages on how many critics see the movie as a success. These are the guys whose jobs it is to judge movies. Their opinions carry a little more wieght than yours.
Their opinions carry a little more weight according to whom? You?
Sweet, so that means I can fetch a negative review of the Dark Knight and win this argument?
N
Also, lol at the concept of a dictator being 'terrifying' to you.
😂 😂 😂
Maybe you should put down the manga and read a history book?
Originally posted by Gideon
If you'd like for this to be a professional discussion, all you need to do is ask.Spoiler:similar conduct from you. No insults, no jabs, no snide remarks, and no dishonesty. If you cannot or will not provide such discourse, then your only other option is to not debate this at all.
But that [b]requires
I'm fairly certain that I've been nothing but polite to you while you've repeatedly called me an emo, a liar and cast slights about my intelligence. Unlike the good folk over at SD.net I see abusing your opponent in a debate as pitiful. So yes, I won't abuse you or intentionally lie. Whatever you draw from my words though is your own look out.
Yes, you did. You just didn't admit to doing it.
No, I really didn't, I just expressed a wish to end a pointless discussion, just as you did over in the movie forum.
It is Nolan's fault, because he wrote and directed the damn thing.Spoiler:
Thanks for conceding the whole murder argument, too. 😂
I didn't concede. Again, we're getting side-tracked over silly nitpicking and irrellivant fanhate. This has nothing to do with the discussion of who is the greater Villian: TDK Joker or PT Palpatine. So I really don't give a tiny fishstick.
^ That sums up my views entirely on Batman's so-called "complex" sense of morality.
Go read a bloody Batman comic. There have been one's where he's actually tried to kill Joker but has been persuaded not to. It's alot more complecated than what you see.
No, you simply claimed that he could estimate the time.
It's not like I can pull off my own bank-job to prove it, now is it? Now answer me, does what I said make logical sense: That he could have estimated how long the heist would take, giving himself margin for errors, that he clearly positioned the guy where he wanted him to and then began stalling until the bus him him? If not, suspension of disbelief. I don't care if he hit him with a orbital laser, the scene was ****ing cool, and nobody who wasn't purposfully nitpicking would have questioned it.
...You're missing the point, cubscout: Kenobi didn't have to trace the dart to Kamino in order for the Republic to discover the existence of the clone army.
😑 I must be missing something, becuase I don't see how they would have got it in time otherwise.
And what does any of this have to do with Palpatine (not the Empire) being a clone of Hitler (not Nazi Germany)?
Quite alot had to do with a comparision to Hitler, but who do you really think the leader of the Nazi-clones is supposed to be.
Hint:
Spoiler:
'A dictator who rose to power during a crisis he had a hand in creating, who has his underlings fight between themselves so they can't fight him and makes it so that with his death the Empire go's to rot.
Their opinions carry a little more weight according to whom? You?
Actually according to the definition of what a profesional critic is. I.E. More qualified than you. Its like it a psychiatrist disagrees with you, the psychiatrist is more credible becuase they actually know wtf they're talkig about, having studied it and in making a living out of doing so.
Sweet, so that means I can fetch a negative review of the Dark Knight and win this argument?
You do that and I'll bring up the 93% of critics who disagree with the hack.
😂 😂 😂Maybe you should put down the manga and read a history book?
The idea of a dictator isn't terrifying at all. It's just some tubby douche on a pulpit.
Blax
I didn't realize I was in the middle of debating Wong when I said that. 🙂I GROW TIRED OF DEFEATING YOU.
😂
Blax
I didn't realize I was in the middle of debating Wong when I said that.
You said nothing about insulting someone in the middle of a debate. This is what you said:
Blax
What's funny to me is that it's only the raging die hard Star Wars fanboys who feel the need to toss around the insults like that.
That's why I find it amusing: you routinely get on this holier-than-thou spree about aggressive debating and then you mock a guy and insult him when he doesn't comport himself to your views?
Pick a side, Blaxy.
I'm fairly certain that I've been nothing but polite to you while you've repeatedly called me an emo, a liar and cast slights about my intelligence. Unlike the good folk over at SD.net I see abusing your opponent in a debate as pitiful. So yes, I won't abuse you or intentionally lie. Whatever you draw from my words though is your own look out.
Aside from this pointless, childish debate about who's a cooler/more evil villian, he's right. I'd definitely call you emo, a liar, and someone who lacks intelligence. Now that may be more attributed to immaturity, but I'm fairly certain Gideon is your age as well. We all know Gideon's lack of self esteem because his girlfriend has slept with everybody except for him, and that contributes to his lack of respect for his opponent. At the same time, he DOES offer something to this forum. Most of the time, you use this place as your own personal feelings diary, including telling us to watch whatever anime show you're currently into. I suggest finding female companionship, or ANY companionship.