The Battle Bar, Our Wretched Hive of Scum and Villainy

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
The North isn't the Taliban, or Hamas, or Islamist insurgents. They have an identifiable and regulated million-man war machine. That's what we have to take down. If I had it my way, we wouldn't send a single western troop over the border. A blitz of missiles, smart bombs, unmanned drones, bunker-busters etc. at every known military installation and target. Let them pick up the pieces and decide if they should surrender. If they don't, do it again. If they try to go nuclear, a tactical strike to stop them.

Hundreds of thousands will likely die due to their Dear Leader's refusal to back down. Their cities will burn. But to do so purposefully as a stated goal, will turn the entire world against us. The "Korean Debacle" could be the first major stepping stone to the unraveling of NATO. American businesses and industries will face huge losses, our (Canada's too closely tied to be exempt) already tattered economy will re-collapse. And if China plays the smart card and stays neutral, say hello to the new solo Superpower 10 years from now. The social and economic consequences of what will be seen as a deliberate attempt to annihilate the North Korean people would be disastrous.

Civility, Neph, though I wholly agree.

Originally posted by REXXXX
Indeed, TJ, he only asked once. I support him; asking us what we would do is unrealistic and draws us away from the point.

So does bringing up Rwanda and Darfur. Totally different than waging war with North Korea.

It was simply to find out if either of you had a better solution than the one I proposed. I find it easier to tear down another's plan than to come up with one on your own. (See GOP)

And no, Rwanda and Darfur were brought up in relation to the retaliation of the rest of the world, which as those two places proves is non-existent. The world doesn't "turn on" anyone. The world stays out of it, as those two examples show.

You have both said we would need to fear the retaliation of a world strike if we played hardball in NK, i countered with Rwanda and Darfur to prove that we have no such fear. In that case it is very relevant to the point being discussed.

Originally posted by Nephthys
No, its because i'm not aware of all the facts. I have no options available to me and it just leaves me with a feeling of stupidity and irritation. How the **** can I make a decision without any information on the situation? In short: I can't. Its an unfair question becuase none of us was alive at that point, we have very limited info on it and thus limited things we can say.

fair enough. Yet you feel you know enough about it to say it was the wrong decision? How did you come to that conclusion?

Originally posted by truejedi
okay, no this is fine. Of course you don't state it. You don't even really make it your goal. You goal is to crush the enemy as efficiently as possible.
You and I are EXACTLY on the same page Lucien. This is EXACTLY what I was trying to describe. Though maybe with boots on the ground instead of air force. You beat the enemies military as quickly as possible regardless of collateral damage. Sorry if it came across differently.

So much for the Sherman march into the sea then. Becuase I got the impression you wanted as much collateral damage as possible. That we should make it so that they couldn't ever threaten us again?

what Lucien is talking about would do that. You think you can take out a military facility without killing civilians and buildings around it?

He is talking about war with the gloves off, and that's what I was advocating.

Originally posted by truejedi
You have both said we would need to fear the retaliation of a world strike if we played hardball in NK, i countered with Rwanda and Darfur to prove that we have no such fear. In that case it is very relevant to the point being discussed.

what Lucien is talking about would do that. You think you can take out a military facility without killing civilians and buildings around it?

People tend not to build their army barracks next to their schools. I don't think we should be going out of our way to target them, no.

Originally posted by Nephthys
People tend not to build their army barracks next to their schools. I don't think we should be going out of our way to target them, no.

I think you might be surprised in NK. Let me get you the article, but I read once where Kim-Jong Il has intentionally put most of his military building close to schools and hospitals. I'll try to dig it up.

I've heard that too.

well, i don't see it on MSNBC anymore. But here is the point:

We are someday going to face an enemy that we can't "fight fair" with.

Look at this way: Right now Iraq and AFghanistan are that little brother who is trying to beat us up, but we can pick him up and hold him upside down over a trashcan and laugh at him.

North Korea is very possible powerful enough that he is a person who will stand there and trade punches with us before going down.
OR... he could be the 3rd kind of person. Someone who is just as strong as us, who we need to fight dirty with to ensure victory.

Should we not fight dirty, risking our safety as opposed to fighting dirty and winning? Rest assured that NK will not hesitate to kill OUR citizens.

Now i'll go google that article and see if i can find it elsewhere.

Well at least I have Beefy on my side......

well, i guess i'll drop that claim for now, since I can't find any evidence of it now, though I could have sworn i read that somewhere.

on another note: Dwade has been just AWFUL this year. 6/21 today after 1 for 15 last time out...

Lebron has to be thinking, what have i gotten myself into?

I will just say that I find it humorous that we're talking how awful war is in the Star Wars forum. Obvious you aren't going to budge, TJ. We can deplore immorality without pitching a better plan. I'm done talking aboit it, though.

I'm on a train home, haven't been in Orange County since August. Much needed, I just went through a break up and that combined with full time academics and work is wearing me down. Vacation needed.

I just finished analysing 'The Wasteland' by T.S. Eliot.

I think I'll just go die. 😐

I have a hilarious video of a shit-faced friend trying to explain her analysis of it to me. She ends up pegging me in the face with a dime.

Originally posted by truejedi
on another note: Dwade has been just AWFUL this year. 6/21 today after 1 for 15 last time out...

Lebron has to be thinking, what have i gotten myself into?

Originally posted by Nephthys
Well at least I have Beefy on my side......