Originally posted by BorbaradI'm not sure Anyone did as good a job against sidious or for any other character as Gideon did with sidious. Also, in before incoming insult.
Yes, Sir.Why? Because Gideon did ommit such a huge amount of material not fitting his personal opinion that it really hurts reading his pro-Sidious posts. That happens when you read material with a previously formed opinion that you absolutely don't want to change.
Originally posted by BorbaradYeah, but you're such a shifty guy, dark alley, hard to trust. And German.
Wow.The insight that could have saved the forum - just 3 or 4 years too late...
PS: I've told you that multiple times, haven't I?
Gideon was so nice and friendly. Cuddly, like a puppy, but tenacious like a Kentucky chicken. Couldn't help but listen to him.
Originally posted by Dr McBeefington
I'm not sure Anyone did as good a job against sidious or for any other character as Gideon did with sidious. Also, in before incoming insult.
I'm not sure what you view as "Good job." I told you, how Gideon produced (yes...because that was pure construction) pro Sidious arguments. If I would lower myself to the state of a rabid fanboy, I could do that equally "good". Perhabs, I could do it even "better", provided that my knowledge of SW lore exceeds Gideon's own (according to Gideon that is) and there is virtually nobody left who even owns a fraction of the source material I have at my disposal.
Yet, I've better things to do than exploiting that facts in order to hype my favourite fictional character. That aside, I'm rather unable to convince myself to have found "zeh absolute truth that isn't up for debate" (Gideon's words on the "Sidious is the most powerful" issue), which can - apparently - only be reached by religious fundamentalists who threat SW sources as if they are the Bible - the word of God, that can't be questioned, or even interpreted, but has to be taken literal (only when it supports your opinion, of course).
Compiling quotes from some source without any interpretation, as Gideon did, is a job for a trained monkey. If you do it, without taking stuff into consideration that doesn't fit your opinion, it's monkey business.
Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Yeah, but you're such a shifty guy, dark alley, hard to trust. And German.Gideon was so nice and friendly. Cuddly, like a puppy, but tenacious like a Kentucky chicken. Couldn't help but listen to him.
"Im Deutschen lügt man, wenn man höflich ist."* - Goethe, Faust II, 6771.
*"In German one lies, when one is polite."
Originally posted by Borbarad
I'm not sure what you view as "Good job." I told you, how Gideon produced (yes...because that was pure construction) pro Sidious arguments. If I would lower myself to the state of a rabid fanboy, I could do that equally "good". Perhabs, I could do it even "better", provided that my knowledge of SW lore exceeds Gideon's own (according to Gideon that is) and there is virtually nobody left who even owns a fraction of the source material I have at my disposal.Yet, I've better things to do than exploiting that facts in order to hype my favourite fictional character. That aside, I'm rather unable to convince myself to have found "zeh absolute truth that isn't up for debate" (Gideon's words on the "Sidious is the most powerful" issue), which can - apparently - only be reached by religious fundamentalists who threat SW sources as if they are the Bible - the word of God, that can't be questioned, or even interpreted, but has to be taken literal (only when it supports your opinion, of course).
Compiling quotes from some source without any interpretation, as Gideon did, is a job for a trained monkey. If you do it, without taking stuff into consideration that doesn't fit your opinion, it's monkey business.
I really don't think any of the "major players" from this forum have clean hands. Gideon had his share of double standards when analyzing sources, sure, but were any of the people from your (our) hayday much better? I'm sure you don't need me to remind you of some of the more ridiculous widely held beliefs of that time, where "logical deduction" and "absence of proof is not proof of absence" were the battle cry's, and where everyone believed that Tulak Hord could solo the entire PT Jedi Council and Naga Sadow could defeat Luke Skywalker without using his limbs and throw stars at people.
But I'm not pointing fingers, all I'm saying is that, collectively, pretty much everyone who's ever debated on this forum has had their heads up their asses at one point or another when it came to forming arguments.
But I'm not pointing fingers, all I'm saying is that, collectively, pretty much everyone who's ever debated on this forum has had their heads up their asses at one point or another when it came to forming arguments.
🙁
I've been stupid, and also bad at debate, and also oblivious and ignorant of relevant facts, but I am not and have never been an accountant.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Wow, it must have been tough to have got your ass kicked by a monkey all these years.
And when exactly did that happen? 2005 - 2008, when I kicked Lightsnake and Gideons asses through the forum every single day, or after this time, when I didn't care enough to get into prolonged debates any longer?
If I had stayed as active as I was when I joined the board, Gideon would never have succeeded with his pro-Sidious campaign. Proof? Have a look at the threads from the time when I was active here.
You can even read Gideon's own Sidious essay. I've fought with him over quotes he used to "prove" Sidious superiority, that he questioned himself in said essay. So once I left, he started to accept my previous points as correct. Is this how he "kicked my ass"? By making concessions to me in that indirect way?
Gideon was fully aware of the fact that I was far more skilled in the art of interpretation than him. And how could that not be the case, provided I studied that stuff? He just wasn't stupid enough to admit that in public...
@Blax
I really don't think any of the "major players" from this forum have clean hands. Gideon had his share of double standards when analyzing sources, sure, but were any of the people from your (our) hayday much better?
Yes. And I can even explain that, based on what you've posted:
I'm sure you don't need me to remind you of some of the more ridiculous widely held beliefs of that time, where "logical deduction" and "absence of proof is not proof of absence" were the battle cry's, and where everyone believed that Tulak Hord could solo the entire PT Jedi Council and Naga Sadow could defeat Luke Skywalker without using his limbs and throw stars at people.
You call that ridiculous, yet all of that is very possible, if you accept the limits of possibilities.
We don't know anything about Tulak Hord, just that he was some exceptionally skilled duellists, apparently the best with a lightsaber in his age. An age, that was coined by the law that the most powerful fighter should rule. The conclusion from what we know is, that Tulak Hord was the best warrior in a species of Dark side warriors, trained to combat other force users.
Is it illogical to conclude that he could possible defeat anybody in the PT era Jedi Council with a lightsaber, going by what we know about him?
And Sadow? The first comics (TOTJ "The Sith Lords"😉 did just show him using his amulets to destroy an entire enemy fleet via a solar erruption. Somebody with enough power to manipulate the energy output of a star could very well "throw planets", or not?
That aside: Most of that stuff was definitely exeggerated due to the invasion of Sidious and Revan fanboys at that time. I can also remember threads where we equipped R2 with godlike powers and gave Jawas the power of Dark Lords.
But I'm not pointing fingers, all I'm saying is that, collectively, pretty much everyone who's ever debated on this forum has had their heads up their asses at one point or another when it came to forming arguments.
Yes. But I can't remember that anybody did parade his opinion as "undebateable fact" aside from Lightsnake and Gideon. This while knowing, that they had the more educated people on the opposite side of the debate. I may remind you that the Antedeluvians as a group where in their mid 20s at least in 2005, with most of us interested in philosophy, while Gideon - just as example - was 14.
How many debates with 14 y.o. children do you have in your everyday life, Blax? Most adults don't take teenagers seriously. FFor a reason. That doesn't change, just because you shift the events from real-life to an online board.
Originally posted by Zampanó
Are the people there actually nicer, or is it just the avatar of bouncing breasts on nearly every other post?A lot of the 'niceness' I've seen in the other Star Wars forums comes from the lack of issues open to debate. There is a right answer and much, much less material to incorporate into any given opinion.
(i.e. they're soft)
Bouncing breasts were always a good reason to check that forum.
I'm not saying that all people on SW EU forums were a**holes; there were several that actually took arguments seriously and didn't incorporate personal insults; but than you would have members come in, and begin acting like adolescents, which helped spiral this forum into its current state. I can't hold it against the offensive members, for they were probably adolescents in real life (there are ways to argue and win a point without insulting the other party, and the offensive parties always failed at that).
*Note: I'm not trying to stereotype or knock any of the teens on here who are decent folks.
Originally posted by BorbaradYes. And I can even explain that, based on what you've posted:
You call that ridiculous, yet all of that is very possible, if you accept the limits of possibilities.
We don't know anything about Tulak Hord, just that he was some exceptionally skilled duellists, apparently the best with a lightsaber in his age. An age, that was coined by the law that the most powerful fighter should rule. The conclusion from what we know is, that Tulak Hord was the best warrior in a species of Dark side warriors, trained to combat other force users.
Is it illogical to conclude that he could possible defeat anybody in the PT era Jedi Council with a lightsaber, going by what we know about him?
I call it ridiculous within the context of it being a claim in an argument. Once you step into the realm of "possibilities", you have to accept the fact that pretty much anything is possible. To specifically address your example, it's not illogical to assume that it's possible that he could defeat anyone in the entire PT council. However there is nothing that points him to being able to do so, either.
So it's just conjecture. And conjecture is all well and good, but conjecture has no place in a "debate", and on top of that, it makes no sense to call someone an illiterate moron, purely because they do not agree with your conjecture. However, that was a common occurrence back in the day.
And Sadow? The first comics (TOTJ "The Sith Lords"😉 did just show him using his amulets to destroy an entire enemy fleet via a solar erruption. Somebody with enough power to manipulate the energy output of a star could very well "throw planets", or not?
You and I have been down this particular road before, so I'm not really anxious to get into it again. Suffice to say, I disagree. 😛
That aside: Most of that stuff was definitely exeggerated due to the invasion of Sidious and Revan fanboys at that time. I can also remember threads where we equipped R2 with godlike powers and gave Jawas the power of Dark Lords.
True, but I don't remember IKC telling people to kill themselves, for not thinking that R2D2 was god, lol.
Yes. But I can't remember that anybody did parade his opinion as "undebateable fact" aside from Lightsnake and Gideon. This while knowing, that they had the more educated people on the opposite side of the debate. I may remind you that the Antedeluvians as a group where in their mid 20s at least in 2005, with most of us interested in philosophy, while Gideon - just as example - was 14.How many debates with 14 y.o. children do you have in your everyday life, Blax? Most adults don't take teenagers seriously. FFor a reason. That doesn't change, just because you shift the events from real-life to an online board. [/B]
I'm not really sure what you're trying to say here. I have in fact argued with many 14 year olds, but, personally, how I interact with people is based upon their merits, not their age.
And when exactly did that happen? 2005 - 2008, when I kicked Lightsnake and Gideons asses through the forum every single day, or after this time, when I didn't care enough to get into prolonged debates any longer?
Wow, I don't think I've seen anyone rationalize more on this forum. Denial?
And what does it say about the intelligence of the "Antedeluvians" when they couldn't take it to a 14 year old and instead needed to tell themselves they won, and left the forum?
Sheen is fired from Two and a half Men
"This is very good news. They continue to be in breach, like so many whales. It is a big day of gladness at the Sober Valley Lodge because now I can take all of their bazillions, never have to look at whatshiscock again and I never have to put on those silly shirts for as long as this warlock exists in the terrestrial dimension."
WTF is he saying?