The Battle Bar, Our Wretched Hive of Scum and Villainy

Started by Lucius3,287 pages

Yeah, its a Darksister power of the Darthomir Witches.

Lovely. Now next we'll find out that Sith Sorcery requires Epic Feat: Concentration.

And there's a entombed planet of god-like beings representing a physical manifestation of the Dark and Light side, and Anakin's the mortal conduit through which their essence flows. They use their supreme Force powers to shape-shift and their very presence shifts the balance of the Dark and Light side in the universe. As the Dark "Son" (voiced by Galen Marek) kills the Light "Daughter" (voiced by Maris Brood), the Sith gain power and war spreads.

By the grace of this T-Canon show, and the involvement of George Lucas as executive producer, Star Wars is officially Magical Sci-Fi.

George Lucas: "**** it!"

God dammit............

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
George Lucas: "**** it!"
George Lucas: "F*ck it! After this, we'll do it LIVE!

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
And there's a entombed planet of god-like beings representing a physical manifestation of the Dark and Light side, and Anakin's the mortal conduit through which their essence flows. They use their supreme Force powers to shape-shift and their very presence shifts the balance of the Dark and Light side in the universe. As the Dark "Son" (voiced by Galen Marek) kills the Light "Daughter" (voiced by Maris Brood), the Sith gain power and war spreads.
Spoiler:
Its a force vision.

By the grace of this T-Canon show, and the involvement of George Lucas as executive producer, Star Wars is officially Magical Sci-Fi.

Star Wars has always been more fantasy than sci-fi.

George Lucas : Revenge of the **** It.

Originally posted by ares834
Spoiler:
Its a force vision.
According to the intro montage at the beginning of "Overlords", the Jedi Council received a message that was intercepted by a Republic ship containing a "hidden Jedi code" that hadn't been used in over 2000 years. If the entire Council and a bunch of non-Force-sensitives are all involved in The Father's attempt to lure Anakin to Mortis, I doubt very much that it's a vision. Even if none of that had happened, Anakin, Obi-Wan, and Ahsoka all receiving the same vision (spaced between three different narratives) at the same time and all remembering it when Rex calls, is still too "real" to be a vision. There's also nothing within the narrative that hints to it being a vision.

Originally posted by ares834
Star Wars has always been more fantasy than sci-fi.
It was traditionally a "majority" of Sci-Fi with a heavy coating of Fantasy. With the CGI series and various other novels and comics, the Fantasy element is starting to overshadow the Sci-Fi. Something I personally dislike.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
According to the intro montage at the beginning of "Overlords", the Jedi Council received a message that was intercepted by a Republic ship containing a "hidden Jedi code" that hadn't been used in over 2000 years. If the entire Council and a bunch of non-Force-sensitives are all involved in The Father's attempt to lure Anakin to Mortis, I doubt very much that it's a vision. Even if none of that had happened, Anakin, Obi-Wan, and Ahsoka all receiving the same vision (spaced between three different narratives) at the same time and all remembering it when Rex calls, is still too "real" to be a vision. There's also nothing within the narrative that hints to it being a vision.

Perhaps "vision" was the wrong word. I was thinking more along the lines of Luke's expirence on the cave of Dagobah. As for evidence that it was a vision, no time passed and nothing was picked up on the scanners. I could be wrong, but it certainly didn't seem to be "real" in the common use of the word.

It was traditionally a "majority" of Sci-Fi with a heavy coating of Fantasy. With the CGI series and various other novels and comics, the Fantasy element is starting to overshadow the Sci-Fi. Something I personally dislike.

Hmm... I feel the exact opposite. Take the OT for example, almost every major character is a mythological archetypes. Furthermore, the story itself parallels many fantasy stories and is heavily based on the monomyth. Plus of course there are knights and wizards and a princess.

Basically, you can take away the sci-fi elements of Star Wars and one can still tell the story. But if you take away the fantasy elements you are left with almost nothing.

Addmitedly the PT does seem to be more sci-fi than fanatsy... But its not as good anyway.

Originally posted by ares834
Perhaps "vision" was the wrong word. I was thinking more along the lines of Luke's expirence on the cave of Dagobah. As for evidence that it was a vision, no time passed and nothing was picked up on the scanners. I could be wrong, but it certainly didn't seem to be "real" in the common use of the word.
Hence my distaste of the fantasy genre becoming so pervasive in Star Wars. Time travel, reality-manipulation, god-like beings, witches and magic spells, other-world shit... It would have been fine if there was some technological explanation, or cool memory-eraser like Men in Black, but *snap* It's all normal again!... no.

Originally posted by ares834
Hmm... I feel the exact opposite. Take the OT for example, almost every major character is a mythological archetypes. Furthermore, the story itself parallels many fantasy stories and is heavily based on the monomyth. Plus of course there are knights and wizards and a princess.

Basically, you can take away the sci-fi elements of Star Wars and one can still tell the story. But if you take away the fantasy elements you are left with almost nothing.

Addmitedly the PT does seem to be more sci-fi than fanatsy... But its not as good anyway.

I don't view the movies (or any part of Star Wars, for that matter) as an analysis or comparison to anything "real world". Lucas' intentions and mythological underlining aside, the films themselves are science-fiction at their core. Galactic empire, lasers, spaceships, robots, aliens---all fundamental elements of sci-fi. The Jedi and the Force have their origins in real-world knights and Eastern philosophies, but within Star Wars itself, they're a fantastical piece amidst a primarily sci-fi story. And that's what drew me in in the first place---science fiction featuring fantasy. To me, the most direct reference to magic should have been Uncle Owen's line "that crazy old wizard" and no further. No magic spells, no crafting potions, no conjuring, no alchemy. That's what Lord of the Rings is for, or any of the ten thousands offshoots it's spawned over the years.

I didn't like cartoon rabbits, Leave it to Beaver protagonists, fart jokes, and overwhelming computer animation devaluing my favorite fictional franchise, and I'm never gonna like magic spells and gods intruding either.

I did like the scene where Anakin made the two children kneel, but purely on a rule of cool factor.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
I don't view the movies (or any part of Star Wars, for that matter) as an analysis or comparison to anything "real world". Lucas' intentions and mythological underlining aside, the films themselves are science-fiction at their core. Galactic empire, lasers, spaceships, robots, aliens---all fundamental elements of sci-fi.

Sure, but these are merely the trappings of the OT and aren't essential to the story.

To me, the most direct reference to magic should have been Uncle Owen's line "that crazy old wizard" and no further. No magic spells, no crafting potions, no conjuring, no alchemy. That's what Lord of the Rings is for, or any of the ten thousands offshoots it's spawned over the years.

Honestly I agree. Many fantasy elements shouldn't intrude on the story because they don't fit the universe. For example I don't want to see Gods start popping up in a Song of Ice and Fire.

I didn't like cartoon rabbits, Leave it to Beaver protagonists, fart jokes, and overwhelming computer animation devaluing my favorite fictional franchise, and I'm never gonna like magic spells and gods intruding either.

I'd agree. Still I don't believe the Force Weilders are "real" and instead were used by the force to teach the Jedi.

Originally posted by ares834
Sure, but these are merely the trappings of the OT and aren't essential to the story.
From a character-development point of view, no. But from a scene-by-scene progression point of view, they are.[/B][/QUOTE]

Star Wars is Science Fantasy and always should be.

Sci-fa.

Being science fiction was just the setting of the Star Wars story.

But it's a fantasy story that could have been told in different ways.

Jedi's - Wizards (or even muskuteers)
Empire- Empire
Rebellion-Rebellion
Jabba- Gangsta
Han Solo- Pirate
Millenium Falcon- Black Pearl type ship maybe??

Princess's, Farmboy's, Bounty Hunters e.t.c.

The main essence of the story isnt really to do with science fiction. The whole story of the Chosen One saving the world is a fantasy story. Science Fic is just the setting chosen to make it cooler. And lets face it the first time we saw a Lightsaber fight Darth Vader vs Obi-Wan was a hell of a lot cooler back in those days than the more recent Gandalf vs. Saramon wizard fight.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
But it's a fantasy story that could have been told in different ways.

Agreed.

I lol'd. Eragon was such a blatant ripoff.

And Jeremy Iron's poorest career choice. That I know of.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Being science fiction was just the setting of the Star Wars story.

But it's a fantasy story that could have been told in different ways.

Jedi's - Wizards (or even muskuteers)
Empire- Empire
Rebellion-Rebellion
Jabba- Gangsta
Han Solo- Pirate
Millenium Falcon- Black Pearl type ship maybe??

Princess's, Farmboy's, Bounty Hunters e.t.c.

The main essence of the story isnt really to do with science fiction. The whole story of the Chosen One saving the world is a fantasy story. Science Fic is just the setting chosen to make it cooler. And lets face it the first time we saw a Lightsaber fight Darth Vader vs Obi-Wan was a hell of a lot cooler back in those days than the more recent Gandalf vs. Saramon wizard fight.

Sorry, replace my use of the word "fantasy" with the term "overbearing inclusion of Lord of the Rings and Harry Potter-esque magical spells and superbeings".

That's where my ire lies.