Originally posted by Nephthys
Speculation. Where are you getting this? Everything so far in The Old Republic has underlined that these are the True Sith.
Unlike most people here, I've read the TOTJ era comics, specifically "The Golden Age of the Sith" and "The Fall of the Sith Empire". Almost all people on the ruling council of Sith Lords are named and die at some point in the storyline. Since the Sith lived by the idea that the strongest shall rule, it stands to reason that the later Sith Emperor, who came from the Ancient Sith Empire and not being among the Council members, was just one of the lesser force users of the Empire under Ragnos and later Sadow / Kressh.
If by 'some' you mean everything on Korriban and Malachor, then yeah. Thats a hell of alot more than other recognised Sith (Ulic Qel'Droma). And yeah, 'maybe'. You don't know shit about how much Revan was taught by the Emperor. We do know that when he returned to the Republic, he did so as Darth Revan, Dark Lord of the Sith.
I really hate it when people start attributing stuff to characters in a Gideonesque fashion by ignoring information and drawing illogical conclusions. First: The Jedi almost drove the Sith to extinction, which leads to the assumption that much knowledge was simple destroyed, either by the destruction of recordings (Holocrons, scrolls, whatever) or by the death of the people who invented it. This is confirmed by "The Essential Guide to the Force" on several occassions.
The next thing is, that Korriban was a grave world. And we saw what Revan found in the previously sealed graves of the most powerful Sith: clearly not giant troves of knowledge but just some helpful gimmics and the information where the Star Forge is located. And Malachor? He discovered the planet towards the end of the Mandalorian Wars. How should he have learned anything there in the time span of about six months?
And the Sith Emperor wouldn't have told Revan anything that would have enabled Revan to overcome him in the future.
Again, where the fvck are you getting this? What makes you think that he only gave him a fraction of what he knew?
Again: The time factor. Bane just had some days to deal with whatever Revan left behind in the holocron. The assumption that one can learn "everything" from another being in the matter of days appears to be rather off.
Furthermore: The lack of knowledge transfer from the "old" to the "new" Sith is pretty clearly demonstrated by the decline of the arts that once coined the force use in the Sith Empire: Sith magic and Sith alchemy. As a matter of fact, Sith magic was just rarely practiced (e.g. by Zannah) much as Sith alchemy (where Sidious and probably Plagueis are the only known users). The likes of Vader, Dooku and Maul - much like the movies as a whole - are pretty ignorant towards the arts of the ancient Sith.
The Sith are a society. Not all of the people can be 'evil'. Darth Thanaton for instance was a pretty cool dude. He had an alien buddy that he was friends with and everything ( a slave he frees in the story). Unfortunately he had to kill said alien buddy when he heard something he shouldn't of, and he did so out of loyalty to the Empire and with a deep sense of regret, apologising as he did it.So of course the Sith can't be 'good guys', but that doesn't automatically make them evil or douchebags.
So the guy killed his buddy because he heared something that he shouldn't have heared? That's a great example for somebody not being evil. 🙄
The Sith society is based upon the reign of the strongest. As such, the higher echelons within the are usually not filled by nice guys or morally obliged people. Furthermore they are encouraged to utilize their (dark) feelings in order to use the force. So by our usual view of "good" and "evil", most of them would count as "evil", even if they think themselves that they are acting "good".
Originally posted by Borbarad
[B]Unlike most people here, I've read the TOTJ era comics, specifically "The Golden Age of the Sith" and "The Fall of the Sith Empire". Almost all people on the ruling council of Sith Lords are named and die at some point in the storyline. Since the Sith lived by the idea that the strongest shall rule, it stands to reason that the later Sith Emperor, who came from the Ancient Sith Empire and not being among the Council members, was just one of the lesser force users of the Empire under Ragnos and later Sadow / Kressh.
I really hate it when people start attributing stuff to characters in a Gideonesque fashion by ignoring information and drawing illogical conclusions. First: The Jedi almost drove the Sith to extinction, which leads to the assumption that much knowledge was simple destroyed, either by the destruction of recordings (Holocrons, scrolls, whatever) or by the death of the people who invented it. This is confirmed by "The Essential Guide to the Force" on several occassions.
The next thing is, that Korriban was a grave world. And we saw what Revan found in the previously sealed graves of the most powerful Sith: clearly not giant troves of knowledge but just some helpful gimmics and the information where the Star Forge is located. And Malachor? He discovered the planet towards the end of the Mandalorian Wars. How should he have learned anything there in the time span of about six months?
And the Sith Emperor wouldn't have told Revan anything that would have enabled Revan to overcome him in the future.
Again: The time factor. Bane just had some days to deal with whatever Revan left behind in the holocron. The assumption that one can learn "everything" from another being in the matter of days appears to be rather off.
Unlike most people here, I've read the TOTJ era comics, specifically "The Golden Age of the Sith" and "The Fall of the Sith Empire". Almost all people on the ruling council of Sith Lords are named and die at some point in the storyline. Since the Sith lived by the idea that the strongest shall rule, it stands to reason that the later Sith Emperor, who came from the Ancient Sith Empire and not being among the Council members, was just one of the lesser force users of the Empire under Ragnos and later Sadow / Kressh.
Emphasis mine.
And so? Does this somehow make him not a Sith? He could have been an accolyte or just a generic Sith. The destruction of the Sith Empire would be enough to make him their strongest and most highly ranked member, just like Luke was far less technically skilled and well taught than pre-Empire Jedi, yet he still crowned himself Grandmaster. He's still a legitimate Sith and as such can carry on the Sith legacy.
I really hate it when people start attributing stuff to characters in a Gideonesque fashion by ignoring information and drawing illogical conclusions. First: The Jedi almost drove the Sith to extinction, which leads to the assumption that much knowledge was simple destroyed, either by the destruction of recordings (Holocrons, scrolls, whatever) or by the death of the people who invented it. This is confirmed by "The Essential Guide to the Force" on several occassions.
And yet Atris found enough Sith holocrons to fill an entire room. The destruction was clearly not as extensive as you make it out to be. Also the Jedi didn't know anything about Malachor, and as we see in KOTOR, they were unable to breach many of the tombs on Korriban, as seen by the numerous Sith artifacts, the Star map and the undisturbed Sith Lords.
Hell, Bane found an entire book of Sith sorceries and 4 holocrons thousands of years after kotor.
The next thing is, that Korriban was a grave world. And we saw what Revan found in the previously sealed graves of the most powerful Sith: clearly not giant troves of knowledge but just some helpful gimmics and the information where the Star Forge is located.
We saw what was there after he had already been there. Theres nothing to suggest he didn't find and claim knowledge before his amnesiac return there.
And Malachor? He discovered the planet towards the end of the Mandalorian Wars. How should he have learned anything there in the time span of about six months?
As DS pointed out, Force-users and particularly Darksiders have extremely high learning rates. Bane already informed us of the multitudes of Sith rituals he learnt from the holocron as well as other techniques like poison resistence etc, so clearly Revan was very well informed. Plus again as DS says, sources support that Revan 'plundered... cities of tomes, scrolls and holocrons.'
And Malachor? He discovered the planet towards the end of the Mandalorian Wars. How should he have learned anything there in the time span of about six months?
That doesn't change the fact that he was a recognised and dubbed Sith Lord. He's legitimate and therefore the succession is legitimate.
Again: The time factor. Bane just had some days to deal with whatever Revan left behind in the holocron. The assumption that one can learn "everything" from another being in the matter of days appears to be rather off.
Bane's learning rate has already proven itself to be enormous.
When Bane finds Freedon Nadds holocron he explicitly notes that much of it matches up with what he had already found in Revan's holocron. Unless both Revan and Freedon Nadd ommitted the same material from their holocrons then it stands to reason that Revan and Nadd possessed the same level of Force knowledge.
Furthermore: The lack of knowledge transfer from the "old" to the "new" Sith is pretty clearly demonstrated by the decline of the arts that once coined the force use in the Sith Empire: Sith magic and Sith alchemy. As a matter of fact, Sith magic was just rarely practiced (e.g. by Zannah) much as Sith alchemy (where Sidious and probably Plagueis are the only known users). The likes of Vader, Dooku and Maul - much like the movies as a whole - are pretty ignorant towards the arts of the ancient Sith.
Only because Sidious limited their knowledge on purpose. And Bane also stats that some people are just naturally inclined towards different uses of the Force. Some can use Sorcery and some can use more elemental Force Lightning etc. Theres nothing suggesting the Sith no longer possessed such knowledge, particularly when Bane himself possessed the combined knowledge of Revan, Nadd, Belia Darzu and Andeddu. The later 3 of which are all alchemists and sorcerers. Also, Zannah's book of sorcery.
So the guy killed his buddy because he heared something that he shouldn't have heared? That's a great example for somebody not being evil.
Yes. Out of loyalty to the empire and feeling bad about it. Evil people don't feel bad afterwards.
The Sith society is based upon the reign of the strongest. As such, the higher echelons within the are usually not filled by nice guys or morally obliged people.
Exactly. The society doesn't give a damn about your morality, only that you are strong. You don't have to be a douchebag to get ahead.
Furthermore they are encouraged to utilize their (dark) feelings in order to use the force. So by our usual view of "good" and "evil", most of them would count as "evil", even if they think themselves that they are acting "good".
Being angry doesn't mean you're evil. Like, at all.
I don't really get what you're arguing about here. They're saying that the Sith in the movies aren't really Sith, the current Sith are. And yet there is a clear line of succession between the current sith and the movie Sith, so they're contradicting themselves. You're arguing that the current Sith Empire isn't really Sith either. But they outright say that they are. So, you're wrong. Am I missing something here?
N.
I had to laugh when Grievous, in a fit of tactical [b]GENIUS prioritised attacking a defenceless medical station over the people actually attacking him. [/B]
As someone who regards a mildly alarming clown as more dangerous than a galaxy-wide tyrant, I daresay that you are not someone with a clear grasp on priorities. excellent
Spoiler:
It's been a while since I've seen the episode, but I believe that the station was the Republic's major medical site in the facility. This is actually something that's picked up on in season three: General Grievous takes actions to delay or obstruct the entrance of clone troops into the war. In a certain context, it's not a bad idea.
N.
Physical inferiority does not denote Villianous inferiority. The Joker is still a superior villian to Failatine.
Yes, yes, because he's the patron saint of emo and goth kids everywhere. Trust me, I've seen this sort of behavior before and it shall fade in time.
But for now, you may cling to the cold comforts of your skinny jeans, your black Joker T-shirt, and the blood-stained razor with which you use to pour out your essence into a world that doesn't love you.
excellent
Originally posted by RagingBonerIf the blocky animation and high-school level writing that defines The Clone Wars had been set amidst the beloved original trilogy, I'm one of those fans would swear an oath to avenge Star Wars and cleanse it with the blood of those who sullied it.
Are you one of those fans that, had this show been set during the OT, you would masturbate to it routinely?