Kain VS Dante

Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
He was K.O'ed by raziel after his heart was ripped out, and when can he control dimensions with the soul reaver?

I hardly can call that KO because Kain was supposed to die by then because it was Rasiel(the only one who can kill him) who ripped the heart of darkness, so Kain can keep fighting untill he is mortally wounded and when he is, he simply reforms.
And as for demension, that's one of the powers his soul reaver gains in the game aside of time, flame and others.

Let's also not forget his Soull Reaver Energy Attack. One blast from it and it vaporized Raziel in Soul Reaver. Further his tleporting+striking with the Reaver and Dante is dead.

I hardly can call that KO because Kain was supposed to die by then because it was Rasiel(the only one who can kill him) who ripped the heart of darkness

This is incorrect. Raziel's infused soul the wraith blade was originally ment to kill Kain. Ripping out his heart with his bare hands couldn't do the trick.

This fight isn't exactly fair for the normal Dante. Dante loses unless he has Sparda Form.

...and he still loses.
Besides Kain was councious when Rasiel ripped his heart but was knocked when Rasiel pushed him into oblivion.
Kain can still keep fighting untill he is mortally wounded and then just reform, so Dante stands no chance.

Sparda form Dante is too powerful. Kain is an insect to him. Kain may not be able to die, but he can't possibly harm someone who defeated the armies of hell and killed a giant, dimension ripping demon. Plus Sparda can fly. Mr. Kain, who originally relied on stealth through the Sarafan hallways.

And Kain was conscious for a few seconds before losing it. So what? People are conscious for a few seconds after losing their heart, and alive for a few seconds after losing their head. Eventually the wound catches up to you.

Ripping out his heart KO'd him for several hours.

I'd even take Janos and Vorador over Kain.

What are you talking about, kain was not concious. after raziel ripped his heart out he shot a tk blast at kain, the next scene kain was on the floor. he was K.O'ed.

Because you're an idiot. Vorador is too arrogant. He was taken by a group of Vampire Hunters. Kain would never let that happen to him...he did make it happen that Vorador and the others died, but it's beside the point. He walked into the camp of where Moebius was leading his vampire hunter horde and took them all out. AS A FLEDGLING VAMPIRE. as opposed to Vorador being alive for centuries.

The Elder God would kill Dante, Sparda form or no Sparda form and he's SCARED of Kain. I think Kain would destroy Dante.

Originally posted by Sam Z
I hardly can call that KO because Kain was supposed to die by then because it was Rasiel(the only one who can kill him) who ripped the heart of darkness, so Kain can keep fighting untill he is mortally wounded and when he is, he simply reforms.
And as for demension, that's one of the powers his soul reaver gains in the game aside of time, flame and others.

Sqam-Z, show me where it say's a person must kill the other in order to win a battle? this isn't mortal kombat, kain can be ko'ed thus losing.

Because you're an idiot.

Am I now?

Vorador is too arrogant.

Prove it.

He was taken by a group of Vampire Hunters.

"A group". Could have been dozens. Could have been hundreds. Could have been ones with Moebius' staff. Your point is moot.

Kain would never let that happen to him...

Because you love him so much?

He walked into the camp of where Moebius was leading his vampire hunter horde and took them all out. AS A FLEDGLING VAMPIRE. as opposed to Vorador being alive for centuries.

Took them all out? He took out all the Vampire Hunters there. And this was AFTER THE VAMPIRE PURGES WERE OVER AND THEY THOUGHT ALL OF THEM WERE DEAD. Prove that there were more Vampire Hunters at the retreat (after the hunt was over) than at the ultimate final battle of the vampire race where they took down the Champion of all Vampires.

And it doesn't really matter. Vorador was much stronger than Kain in BO because one couldn't defeat Malak and one could. One could kill Pillar members with one spell and one couldn't. After the events of BO2 Kain lost many of his powers By Defiance he's only demonstrated usage of Mist, super Jump, bat form and telekenisis. That sure puts Vorador to shame 🙄

Janos as well would own Kain pretty hard. The Hylden Lord in Janos owned Kain's equal while Janos was fighting back at him.

Janos also held off the Sarafan guards while Raziel was dicking off. He fought them off for a while while being effected by Moebius's staff. Kain was instantly paralyzed when Moebius turned the staff at him.

The Elder God would kill Dante, Sparda form or no Sparda form

And Kain couldn't kill the Elder God either.

Prove it.

<Kain>
(My visit with Vorador only strengthened my resolve. His power uncontested by mortals, he had fallen to another enemy- decadence has claimed itself many a great warrior.

Of course you could argue he was not specifically referring to arrogance but it’s quite clear what he means and I doubt anyone would disagree with him.

A group". Could have been dozens. Could have been hundreds. Could have been ones with Moebius' staff. Your point is moot.

I believe we saw it in Defiance but I’m not sure.

Because you love him so much?

No. Because he’s a master of manipulation and intellect. A thousand-years of existence and conquering and exterminating seems to have tought Kain a thing or two. We thought it was arrogance Kain threw Raziel into the Abyss. It was his master plan which unveils its mastery all throughout Soul Reaver 2 and Defiance. If you can look at that Kaina nd say with all the vast knowledge he’s obtained and the scope of mind he’s displayed would walk into a trap set up by some Sarafan and not walk out, you are a bit narrow-minded.

Took them all out? He took out all the Vampire Hunters there. And this was AFTER THE VAMPIRE PURGES WERE OVER AND THEY THOUGHT ALL OF THEM WERE DEAD. Prove that there were more Vampire Hunters at the retreat (after the hunt was over) than at the ultimate final battle of the vampire race where they took down the Champion of all Vampires.

What the hell are you talking about? They were executing vampires besides Vorador. Kain smelled “vampire blood” on his way there. So, it wasn’t like there was a mass battle beforehand and Vorador was the only one left. “He is the last! Destroy him!” (Moebius) If you would go back and look at that scene, it showed him walking intoa camp full of them crowded around Moebius. He also fought a ton of them on the way there. They weren’t done by any means.’It’s not like after a war and the military has been dismantled. They were still purging.

And it doesn't really matter. Vorador was much stronger than Kain in BO because one couldn't defeat Malak and one could. One could kill Pillar members with one spell and one couldn't. After the events of BO2 Kain lost many of his powers By Defiance he's only demonstrated usage of Mist, super Jump, bat form and telekenisis. That sure puts Vorador to shame roll eyes (sarcastic)

A. No one could kill Malek. It’s unknown how even Vorador did it.
B. Did the Pillar members Vorador kill look evil, corrupted powerhouses? Were they summoning massive demons, hurling magical spells, transmitting people in time to attack and fight him or completely insane mental masters? I don’t think so. One of them hurled some piss-ant spella nd he was out. I don’t think they are anything to attest to Vorador’s strength over Kain’s.

Blood Omen 2 was made by another company entirely. It was made with a likeness to SR with how Kain attains his power. Kain can teleport now. He couldn’t in BO2. Vampires don’t lose powers. BO2 is a complete discontinuity in the series and I doubt it’s sensible even to compare Kain in BO2 to Defaince given the complete difference in battle system and gameplay.

You are bargaining on powers Vorador never displayed. He killed some weak Circle members and Malek. You’re taking his age into account which won’t work when you need fectual backing.

Janos also held off the Sarafan guards while Raziel was dicking off. He fought them off for a while while being effected by Moebius's staff. Kain was instantly paralyzed when Moebius turned the staff at him.

There is a large difference between Janos and Kain. Kain is not as old. Kain is a completely different vampire from any other. Janos belongs to the ancient Vampires. Comparing them is almost like comparing two different species given the evidence.

And Kain couldn't kill the Elder God either.

He pretty solidly kicked his ass. If the EG’s exit didn’t scream of “RETREAT!” then I don’t know what does. His true body is probably buried way down near the center of Nosgoth. We haven’t seen him fully yet. Only a mass of eyes and tentacles. If there is ever a new LoK, then maybe we will.

a massive OWNAGE by the new guy..well done 😄..

Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
Sqam-Z, show me where it say's a person must kill the other in order to win a battle? this isn't mortal kombat, kain can be ko'ed thus losing.

That's the thing. I don't think Dante can KO him, and kain wont stop fighting unless Dante kills him and once he does Kain will simply reform.

We also have to take note that it would probably take ONE solidstrike with the purified Soul Reaver to kill Dante and his soul is drained. Dante will need several hits before he even has a chance of slowing Kain down. Given the fact it's very difficult to use TK on upper-tier characters, let's say he merely applies it for a second to hold Dante still. He can teleport as we saw in Soul Reaver. Even a second application of the TK to keep him from moving would be enough for Kain to disappear and re-appear by him. Dante moves to defend himself as Kain goes Mist and moves to the side and behind Dante. Solidifies and runs him through.

A basic template of what would most probably be a long and drawn out fight but it's pretty solid, I think.

^^ thanks. ^^Kain is my favorite character ever and I first started kain vs. Dante topic on another forum a couple years ago. I've been arguing for his victory ever since.

Originally posted by Sam Z
That's the thing. I don't think Dante can KO him, and kain wont stop fighting unless Dante kills him and once he does Kain will simply reform.

It doesn't matter, once he's K.O'ed the match is over, rules are rules. this isn't mortal Kombat.

Originally posted by Nikkolas
We also have to take note that it would probably take ONE solidstrike with the purified Soul Reaver to kill Dante and his soul is drained.

No, it wouldn't, in order for the reaver to steal your soul, the person must be weakened or stunned. I've never seen the reaver steal souls from a body just like that.

Originally posted by Nikkolas

Dante will need several hits before he even has a chance of slowing Kain down. Given the fact it's very difficult to use TK on upper-tier characters, let's say he merely applies it for a second to hold Dante still.

With dante's speed, that is very unlikely, and quicksilver to the mix.

Originally posted by Nikkolas

He can teleport as we saw in Soul Reaver. Even a second application of the TK to keep him from moving would be enough for Kain to disappear and re-appear by him. Dante moves to defend himself as Kain goes Mist and moves to the side and behind Dante. Solidifies and runs him through.

Okay, hold own, the only attacks kain has in his mist forms are his stealth kills.

instant TK shackles and then Soul reaver blast, instant win, Dante is not fast enough to defeat Kain before he can do this....... if you can prove he is, then please tell me....

Also how are you going to KO Kain, lol ridiuclous concept, Kain can survive his heart being torn out, Dante is basically near death when he is simply smashed through the stomach with Vergils sword, i mean come on, Sword in stomach isnt anything compared to haveing your heart ripped out by somebodies bare hands 🙄

Kain can instantly rip out Dante soul with magic, Also Kain Gains all his powers from his older versions when through the years after BO 2, one of the makers of the game say so in an interview....cant remember his name though, long time

also Mist speed is faster than anything Dante can do, its as fast as air itself, much faster than Dante

Originally posted by Burning thought
instant TK shackles and then Soul reaver blast, instant win, Dante is not fast enough to defeat Kain before he can do this....... if you can prove he is, then please tell me....

Yeah, he is, Quick silver is enough. and kain has to aim his tk at him, good luck doing that on a moving object. especially one as fast as dante.

Originally posted by Burning thought

Also how are you going to KO Kain, lol ridiuclous concept, Kain can survive his heart being torn out, Dante is basically near death when he is simply smashed through the stomach with Vergils sword, i mean come on, Sword in stomach isnt anything compared to haveing your heart ripped out by somebodies bare hands 🙄

Right, dante fighting vergil in his first showing ok, and dante got up after a few seconds. kain was out for how long?

Originally posted by Burning thought

Kain can instantly rip out Dante soul with magic, Also Kain Gains all his powers from his older versions when through the years after BO 2, one of the makers of the game say so in an interview....cant remember his name though, long time

You're going to have to prove that, kain has never shown the ability to instantly rip someones soul out. he can take it out when their stunned, but, that's it.

Originally posted by Burning thought

also Mist speed is faster than anything Dante can do, its as fast as air itself, much faster than Dante

😆 What's the speed of air?! seriously mist form isn't that fast at all, it never was.

Kain doesnt aim TK, he simply uses his mind to instantly stop his opponent, aiming is not necessary

also it doesnt really say how long Kain took to get up, and as i said, getting slashed through the stomach is nothing compared, Dante probably wouldnt survive his heart being ripped out, wheras Kain can.......

also WTF, wheres proof to say mist form is slow, its fast enough to dodge basically anything, not to menstion his indestructable when kain moves using it, when in game does Dante move faster than Kains mist form, it just doesnt look that fast since its only a short distance you can move but its fast enough for me to dodge anything, the speed of air is the speed air takes to form around something when it moves through it, which is extremely fast, basically instant since its constant

also in BO 1 he rips out peoples souls with magick instantly as long as you have enough power ,also with a powered reaver, one strike makes the enemy explode, which would happen to Dante, ime afraid i dont see his regeneration putting his body back together and finding the pieces for him

Originally posted by Burning thought
Kain doesnt aim TK, he simply uses his mind to instantly stop his opponent, aiming is not necessary

Show me kain doing this, kain has never instanly froze an opponent, he always has to focus on them.

Originally posted by Burning thought

also it doesnt really say how long Kain took to get up, and as i said, getting slashed through the stomach is nothing compared, Dante probably wouldnt survive his heart being ripped out, wheras Kain can.......

Slashed throguh the stomach, He was stabbed several times, first during the battle then during the cinematics several times and that was his weakest incarnation.

Originally posted by Burning thought

also WTF, wheres proof to say mist form is slow, its fast enough to dodge basically anything, not to menstion his indestructable when kain moves using it,

😆 Ok, first of all mist is not an offensive move, unless you count steath kills, and it is slow, defaince is a very slow game. his mist side step is no faster than links sidestep in zelda. and he's not indestructable, in blood omen you can get hit while in mist form.

Originally posted by Burning thought

when in game does Dante move faster than Kains mist form, it just doesnt look that fast since its only a short distance you can move but its fast enough for me to dodge anything, the speed of air is the speed air takes to form around something when it moves through it, which is extremely fast, basically instant since its constant

And what is the speed of air, can you give me a number, beacuse air is all around us, when does it have to take time to form, WTF are you talking about speed of air?

Dante outclasses kain in speed many times, million stab, stinger, dashing through the air with trickster and running 20 feet up walls, those are all speed feats.

Originally posted by Burning thought

also in BO 1 he rips out peoples souls with magick instantly as long as you have enough power ,also with a powered reaver, one strike makes the enemy explode, which would happen to Dante, ime afraid i dont see his regeneration putting his body back together and finding the pieces for him

You can't compare the game mechanics of BO and use it in this fight, especially considering all of kains instant kill moves can only perfrom there function against a low tier character and not a boss, how many times did it take him to kill the seraphim lord with immolate?

you still have no proof that Dante has more strength or resilence or speed than Kain, also the Mist form in BO is diffrent from the one in BO 2 which is diffrent from the one in Defiance

Also its as slow as you make it dude, can can do sword slashes as fast or faster than Dante, the usual boring combo's in DMC are simliar in LOK games, same speed, the only few diffrent speed ones i can remember are Cadaverous alliteration and Rage moves in the LOK and Million stab and that long range strike you can do, dont remember the name but its fast and launches Dante forwards, always a good move to do, anyway both are fast, Cadaverous is faster than the second move i mentioned and is perhaps equal in speed to Million stab

also how can you say Sparda sword is anything compared to the Soul reaver, it has never made an enemy explode or send instant kill shots and all the bosses in the LOK series i would rate high above the DMC series except perhaps Mundus but thats about it, all the rest are the usual little things or medium sized things and Dante still has some trouble with them

Also Kain does it all the time, TK shackles doesnt need much focus, in the game you just instantly tap the buttons and it takes no time at all, depends how long the player takes, and he can move his opponents around as much as he likes, its got unlmited power for moveing your enemies

Originally posted by Burning thought
you still have no proof that Dante has more strength or resilence or speed than Kain, also the Mist form in BO is diffrent from the one in BO 2 which is diffrent from the one in Defiance

Taking punches from Beo Wolf without being ko'ed, Being stabbed several times and getting up in seconds, dashing through the air in glaring speeds, regenarative pwoers at high speeds, combine that with all his devil arms.

Mist form isn't that different from defaince and Blood omen 2, the only difference I can think of is that you have a side step and can go thorugh cages in defaince, while in BO 2 it's used for stealth kills. not much of a big difference.

Originally posted by Burning thought

Also its as slow as you make it dude, can can do sword slashes as fast or faster than Dante, the usual boring combo's in DMC are simliar in LOK games, same speed, the only few diffrent speed ones i can remember are Cadaverous alliteration and Rage moves in the LOK and Million stab and that long range strike you can do, dont remember the name but its fast and launches Dante forwards, always a good move to do, anyway both are fast, Cadaverous is faster than the second move i mentioned and is perhaps equal in speed to Million stab

No, just no. Defaince is ridiculesly slow, the hang time when you juggle an opponent is extremely long, it's like your fighting on the moon, and boring combo's?! BO2 sucked, defaince was the only game he fought using combo's and they were OK.

Originally posted by Burning thought

also how can you say Sparda sword is anything compared to the Soul reaver, it has never made an enemy explode or send instant kill shots and all the bosses in the LOK series i would rate high above the DMC series except perhaps Mundus but thats about it, all the rest are the usual little things or medium sized things and Dante still has some trouble with them

😆 The only reason why the soul reaver is so powerful is because it has a variety of functions, like using artifacts to time travel or absorbing elemental properties, which doesn't even use that well. that sword of sparda doesn't really have much showings. and what trouble are you talking about, dante beat vergils arse despite not having the sword of sparda, he doesn't need it.

Originally posted by Burning thought

Also Kain does it all the time, TK shackles doesnt need much focus, in the game you just instantly tap the buttons and it takes no time at all, depends how long the player takes, and he can move his opponents around as much as he likes, its got unlmited power for moveing your enemies

No, you don't instanlty press the buttons, you have to aim your TK at your opponen. Blood Omen 2 and defiance prove that.