Originally posted by King Kandy
It's been editorialy referred to as out of canon, it never happened.
where?
in-book references>editor references, imo.
and bran -- we COULD cry PIS, but crying PIS is a cop-out imo. i hate crying PIS because it's a 'last resort' argument. true enough that it DOES occur, though not with the frequency some would say, imo, but in this case there is no NEED for a last resort.
i showed a scan previously where contemplator -- an elder of the universe -- refers to LT as a representation. we know he appears in the realm of manifestations. we kow other abstracts/cosmic forces use m-bodies. to me, it seems pretty clear and no stretch at all to say LT uses m-bodies. 😬
Originally posted by leonidas
where?in-book references>editor references, imo.
and bran -- we COULD cry PIS, but crying PIS is a cop-out imo. i hate crying PIS because it's a 'last resort' argument. true enough that it DOES occur, though not with the frequency some would say, imo, but in this case there is no NEED for a last resort.
i showed a scan previously where contemplator -- an elder of the universe -- refers to LT as a representation. we know he appears in the realm of manifestations. we kow other abstracts/cosmic forces use m-bodies. to me, it seems pretty clear and no stretch at all to say LT uses m-bodies. 😬
Originally posted by leonidas
where?in-book references>editor references, imo.
Last Planet Standing is Non-canon.
Originally posted by leonidas
and bran -- we COULD cry PIS, but crying PIS is a cop-out imo. i hate crying PIS because it's a 'last resort' argument. true enough that it DOES occur, though not with the frequency some would say, imo, but in this case there is no NEED for a last resort.
It was full of PIS, but that's inconsequential because it's non-canon.
Originally posted by leonidas
i showed a scan previously where contemplator -- an elder of the universe -- refers to LT as a representation.
The Living Tribunal, like Eternity or Galactus (who is NOT an Abstract), is perceived in different forms, according to the eye of the beholder.
This is why the Contemplator says, "that Entity sitting in Judgement represents the Living Tribunal"
This in NO way proves that's any less of a quantity of himself.
Originally posted by leonidas
we know he appears in the realm of manifestations.
Of course he does,
it's HIS Realm:
"The DIMENSION of MANIFESTATIONS ... The REALM of the LIVING TRIBUNAL"
Originally posted by leonidas
we kow other abstracts/cosmic forces use m-bodies.
Yes, we know that.
But there is NO proof that the M-bodys of Abstract are not the totality of said Abstracts' powers.
Originally posted by leonidas
to me, it seems pretty clear and no stretch at all to say LT uses m-bodies.
Since there is no on panel proof that LT uses M-bodies, to me, there is only ONE LT and he is simultaneously everywhere:
Originally posted by King Kandy
There's an in-book reference to it being canon? That was not in the book itself?Editors said that Earth X is non-canon, I don't se you crying to defend that...
crying . . .? 🤨
anyway . . . there is an obvious difference between earth x and last planet to my argument. i'm not arguing last planet standing itself is canon -- i'm saying that since last planet took place within the multiverse (and since it was designated an alternate earth and catalogued as part of our multiverse by marvel) then the appearance of LIVING TRIBUNAL in last planet should be seen as canon. nothing else in the book is canon any more than any character in any what if is canon (so no, a silver galactus is NOT canon . . . 🙄 )
last planet was essentially a what if, and LT's appearances in what ifs ARE canon. so you tell me: why WOULDN'T his appearance on THIS alternate earth be considered canon? where exactly is the proof that his appearance was non-canon . . .?
Originally posted by Mr Master
Last Planet Standing is Non-canon.
again i say: proof? does it take place within the multiverse? within A multiverse? because according to the official marvel handbook of alternate earths it does . . . and using your lt scan, ANY multiverse is still canon for lt . . .
The Living Tribunal, like Eternity or Galactus (who is NOT an Abstract), is perceived in different forms, according to the eye of the beholder.
and yet galactus appears different to every race, so clearly he is not a simple physical being either. galactus seems to be something inbetween, imo. and that issue of quasar also says that g DOES at times employ an m-body.
This is why the Contemplator says, "that Entity sitting in Judgement represents the Living Tribunal"
galactus does the same. the m-body represents lt like any m-body represents any abstract.
This in NO way proves that's any less of a quantity of himself.
his actions can be taken as proof enough, imo. lt m-bodies would also easily explain other poor showings by lt -- gotg, for example. or do we simply assign EVERY poor showing by him PIS . . .?
Of course he does,it's HIS Realm
and yet he himself is NOT a manifestation? conincidentally funny realm to live in then . . . 😬
But there is NO proof that the M-bodys of Abstract are not the totality of said Abstracts' powers.
you keep saying that but eternity itself said to warlock that it was NOT the totality of the universe.
clearly.
ON-PANEL.
you continue to cry for on-panel proof yet when it is shown to you clear as can be, you wave it off as meaningless or assign an impossible explanation to rationalize it away. impossible because multi-eternity did not EXIST at the time . . . even seeing the m-body destroyed is waved off as an unsupported trick or you say it's PIS. it seems everytime something is brought up, it is waved off by people (not speaking to you directly, mm) who disagree as PIS.
it's pretty common knowledge that PIS is the last cry of someone who has no recourse in a debate . . . ❌ (a little hint to tournament participants -- do NOT cry PIS in the tournament. it is not looked upon favourably by judges . . .)
and btw, what i'm saying in no way promotes the notion that there is more than one lt. there would STILL be just one -- just that he would appear as an m-body in all universes, as opposed to his TOTALITY in every universe.
Originally posted by leonidas
and yet galactus appears different to every race, so clearly he is not a simple physical being either. galactus seems to be something inbetween, imo.
I'll agree with that.
Originally posted by leonidas
and that issue of quasar also says that g DOES at times employ an m-body.
Yea, but Galactus type Entitys only use M-body's to make an appearance somewhere without actually attending:
Now that's what I call an M-body that definitively is not a "totality"
why?
Cause that's what it say's on panel.
Originally posted by leonidas
galactus does the same. the m-body represents lt like any m-body represents any abstract.
There is no on panel proof that LT has M-bodys, there is only proof that LT exists everywhere simultaneously:
Why would he need an M-body, if he is everywhere at all times?
Originally posted by leonidas
or do we simply assign EVERY poor showing by him PIS . . .?
What are his poor showings in legitimate Comic book titles?
Originally posted by leonidas
and yet he himself is NOT a manifestation? conincidentally funny realm to live in then . . .
He doesn't need to be, for he is everywhere simultaneously.
Originally posted by leonidas
you keep saying that but eternity itself said to warlock that it was NOT the totality of the universe.clearly.
ON-PANEL.
you continue to cry for on-panel proof yet when it is shown to you clear as can be, you wave it off as meaningless or assign an impossible explanation to rationalize it away. impossible because multi-eternity did not EXIST at the time . . .
Taking "multi-eternity" out of that equation, where and when has Eternity EVER said he was not the totality of the Universe?
If your talking about this scan:
"If this were not merely a Visualization of my Totality, the Gauntlet's Effect would have been Nonexistent"
In fact, Eternity clearly says that this IS his TOTALITY!
"a visualization of his Totality"
Do you see Eternity anywhere saying, this is a part, or fraction, or portion of his totality visualized?
Or anything even remotely implying he's claiming to not be the totality of the Universe?
How did he make you see something that's not there.
Guess I should continue to "cry" for on panel proof to the contrary ey?
Originally posted by leonidas
even seeing the m-body destroyed is waved off as an unsupported trick or you say it's PIS.
Not waved off, it's what happened on panel:
Protege and the Beyonder are teleported by the Living Tribunal into the Dimension of Manifestations, they end up in Scathan the Celestials HAND:
Next Panel:
Then Protege and the Beyonder expand to the size of Eternity, and attack Eternity (or so it seems)
Next Panel:
"Everything REVERTED back as if NOTHING HAPPENED"
Eternity then says,
"For indeed NOTHING has"
Doesn't this look EXACTLY like the SAME point where they started from when they appeared in the Celestial HAND?
If it was only Eternity that was falsely destroyed in which a new M-body immediately resurfaced, why did EVERYTHING change?
Why were Protege and the Beyonder brought back to the size of Scathan's HAND?
Why is EVERYONE in the EXACT same position as when Protege and Beyonder appeared in Scathan's HAND for the first time?
hm
Originally posted by leonidas
and btw, what i'm saying in no way promotes the notion that there is more than one lt. there would STILL be just one -- just that he would appear as an m-body in all universes, as opposed to his TOTALITY in every universe.
There is no proof that LT appears in fractions of himself.
There is no proof that Eternity appears in fractions of himself either.
Originally posted by leonidas
his actions can be taken as proof enough, imo. lt m-bodies would also easily explain other poor showings by lt -- gotg, for example.
This is from my personal thread,
this isn't a poor showing, this is true PIS.
PLEASE READ CAREFULLY, before any of you confuse yourselves with these Scans.
"My short answer to this issue is that it is illogical, poorly written nonsense that one should ignore, It contradicts far too much of what is known and accepted about the characters to be taken seriously. But since this defense is open to the retort that perhaps everything else is wrong and these issues are right, let us instead look at the claims and implications of what is said. Let us examine what one would have to accept if one took everything in these two issues on face value.
First of all, Protege claims not just to be the new Living Tribunal, but the new One Above All (GOTG 49, last page); that is, Protege is God.
If he were indeed now God, what are we to make of Celestial's restraining him by throwing an energy blanket over his head? Can a Celestial muzzle God? And how does the energy blanket restrain this new OAA? By allowing him "to see nothing of what transpires." Yes, that's right, the new supreme being of the multiverse is taken down by not being able to see the ends of his feet.
But wait, we don't have to commit to such nonsense, because we are told that the LT was clandestinely drawing on the Amulet of Aggamotto (not the Eye, not the Orb, but the Amulet) in order to restrain Protege. In conclusion, therefore: Protege becomes TOAA, but is restrained by a Celestial energy hood that cuts off his sight and an amulet enhanced Living Tribunal.
hysterical2
Perhaps Protege believes he is omnipotent, but because he cannot even sense what is happening after having a hood thrown over his head, clearly his Cosmic Awareness is still paltry if not non-existent. Clearly he has not absorbed the powers of the LT, perhaps he has absorbed an iota of an iota. Therefore, in conclusion, we are not seeing a Celestial restraining someone who is more powerful than the LT, let alone TOAA"
Originally posted by Mr Master
Do you see Eternity anywhere saying, this is a part, or fraction, or portion of his totality visualized?Or anything even remotely implying he's claiming to not be the totality of the Universe?
and yet there is clearly stated a DIFFERENCE IN POWER between this 'visualization/representation' and the totality. if the m-body IS the totality, why does he SAY that if it WAS his totality, he wouldn't have been affected?? 🤨
there are only 2 ways to see this:
1. the m-body IS the totality and should NOT have been affected by aw.
or
2. the m-body is simply a VISUALIZATION of the totality and NOT the ACTUAL totality and therefore IS affected by the attack.
it cannot be both. and it seems pretty clear in that scan which option is the true one.
Doesn't this look EXACTLY like the SAME point where they started from when they appeared in the Celestial HAND?If it was only Eternity that was falsely destroyed in which a new M-body immediately resurfaced, why did EVERYTHING change?
Why were Protege and the Beyonder brought back to the size of Scathan's HAND?
Why is EVERYONE in the EXACT same position as when Protege and Beyonder appeared in Scathan's HAND for the first time?
that's all circumstantial and your interpretation. there is nothing said about a trick being played, or an illusion. the m-body was meaningless and its destruction amounted to nothing -- nothing happened when it was destroyed.
There is no proof that LT appears in fractions of himself.
nor is there proof to support your theory. where does it say he DOES appear in his totality everywhere? m-bodies easily explain low showings. you're only recourse in those cases are PIS. my theory fits what is shown. yours forces readers to disregard things as PIS.
and so kk (and mm, i guess since you said the same thing) i assume there IS no editorial proof (or proof of any kind) to say conclusively that last planet IS non-canon as regards lt . . .? yet it's listed in alternate earths, an official marvel source, which means it IS part of the multiverse which means that it was the 'totality' of lt that reed managed to banish . . .? 😕
an lt m-body would explain the fact that lt needed to draw power from the ancient one's amulet in gotg. it would explain his ridiculous 'supreme judgement' (a supernova!!) in korvac. it would explain last planet. it would explain strange's ability to even briefly engage lt in a battle. m-bodies explain all of that. he calls the dimension of manifestations (where m-bodies are created!) his home. all of these things seem to point to one thing -- lt uses m-bodies that are less powerful than lt in his totality would be.
and before you say -- "there is no on-panel proof that he uses them!" there is EQUALLY no proof he doesn't. the m-body theory explains all the poor showings. the singular, totality theory of lt needs to resort to PIS -- repeatedly, to explain them away.
choose to subscribe to whichever theory you like, but to me the choice seems pretty clear.
Originally posted by King Kandy
Yeah, what do people think the POINT of Marvel Universe: The End was?
When THe Thanos Absorbed the LT, Infinity and Eternity, doesn't that somehow show that the HEart was only Universal? where is multi Eternity? I'm confused. I know the LT is multiversal but why only one Eternity and Infinity? Where are the other universes?
