Superman can defeat EVERY DBGT character...............combined

Originally posted by Up In Flames
how can supes beat them if he cant even beat lex luther?...

Lex knows all about Supes weaknesses, and even uses it epuiped with a armor battled suit he made to match Supes in combat. You don't really think Supes would lose to Lex without prep or anything do you? 😕

Originally posted by dvampire
Lex knows all about Supes weaknesses, and even uses it epuiped with a armor battled suit he made to match Supes in combat. You don't really think Supes would lose to Lex without prep or anything do you? 😕

Supes beats Lex all the time, I have no clue what that guy is talking about....

He's KO'd Lex with a flick of his finger.

Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
Supes beats Lex all the time, I have no clue what that guy is talking about....

He's KO'd Lex with a flick of his finger.

Yep! He even beat him in the recent issue. Lex had alot of prep, all the kryptonite around the world, and kryptonian technology...he still couldn't stop Supes (great issue btw).

Originally posted by Black Arachnid
1) Physical strength: Goku has shown in the Buu saga that in base form he cannot (repeat, CANNOT) lift 40 tons. If we were to assume (quite generously) that becomming ssj3 would multiply his strength by 10,000x he would be lifting 400,000 tons.

Superman (post crisis from the comics, from here on out), on the other hand, is written to be able to lift 40 billion tons on average. He has pushed over a third of the moon's mass, lifted battleships without any exertion, and so forth. Superman is LEAGUES stronger physically then Goku

i seem to remember classic wonder woman able to give supes hell and she's a class 70 character... 😕 but goku can't?

look.. again.. powerlevels are relative, goku as a kid with the PL of 30 was running around with 10 ton boulders.... do the PL math

in any case it's hardly relivant... the major source for DBZ fighters is their striking power which has absolutely nothing to do with their physical strength but rather their chi, just because they can't lift as much as superman doesn't mean that superman's punches would have a much greater effect on them than other DBZ fighter because.... HE DOESN'T USE CHI!

Originally posted by Black Arachnid
2) Speed: Gotenks, (who is much stronger then Goku) has been shown to go around the earth a few times (around 7 or 9) in the span of 30 minutes. So it is safe to assume that Goku is not quite as fast.

Originally posted by Black Arachnid
Superman has been stated to be able to move 99% the speed of light, which circles the earth about 7 times in the span of a single second.

Originally posted by Black Arachnid
Goku's trump card in this catagory is his instant transmission. However, it cannot compensate here. It is shown to require two things to work, a large ki source

Originally posted by Black Arachnid
and a moment of concentration.

Originally posted by Black Arachnid
First of all, Goku has difficulty sensing normal ki levels which Superman would have because Superman simply doesn't use ki at all (it'd be the same as an average person). .

Originally posted by Black Arachnid
Secondly, when you are fighting someone who is physically moving past speeds of mach 10 Goku will be hard pressed to find a moment to use instant transmission. .

>>>"Albert Einstein theorized that time and gravity are a close link. He also said if you travel at the speed of light your body will age slower than people that are not. If you travel at the speed of light for 10 years, came back to earth, you'll be 10,000 years into the future (or something like that). In 1976 a physicist theorized you can travel back in time by getting and object with a gravity 100,000 stronger than our sun's, stand at the edge of it, and spin the object close to light speed. The exact opposite of going to the future in which you must go at the speed of light.

Remember, the higher ones gravity or weight in proportion to one's relative gravity, the faster time would travel. To an ant, life seems just as long as to an elephant. That's why flies have much better reflexes.

Now, imagine the Earth, the Sun and a blackhole laying on top of a rubber sheet. Earth will bend the sheet a little and the Sun will bend the sheet a lot because its heavier. A Black Hole on the other hand will break through the sheet. The Black Hole has such a powerful gravity that even light cannot escape. The Black Hole is quite literally making it's own time frame and own universe. In other words, if you bend gravity, you bend time. Any physicist will tell you this.

Did you ever notice why gravity seems to be the main topic of massive powerlevel increases? That's because Goku is able to adapt to lets say 450 times gravity. To him, normal now is 450 times gravity. Everything in the normal gravity world just seems slow when he's charged up. Sure, there are other ways of become ungodly powerful in DBZ without gravity training, but this is concrete evidence. Goku in which now mastered time a gravity himself because earth's gravity is no longer an obstacle.

DBZ characters usually don't make sonic booms even though they travel much faster than the speed of sound. Well, think about it. Vegeta is like a black hole, his power is so strong that he's able (you guessed it) bend time and gravity himself! History lesson: In 1996 a French physicist proposed on can travel at the speed of light without actually going the speed of light. If you can squeeze the gravity ahead of you, you can get past the object faster but still going at the same speed. That's because there's less distance between you and your desired point. What Vegeta does is bend gravity ahead of him so he can get closer, lets say, Recoom, without having to break the law of physics which does not permit traveling close to the speed of light. The higher one's powerlevel, the higher one's "gravity". So Vegeta gets to Recoom without actually traveling faster than the speed of sound in which ladies and gentleman, without making a sonic boom.

Why do you think when character charge up, they strangely alter gravity around them? Or when two character lock up, the ground around them creates a crater? They create their own gravity. Akira Toriyama is a smart fellow. He probably knew this without actually knowing why.

PS- Isn't it funny that the same gravity enhancing ship that Goku used to get to planet Namek also lets him travel beyond light speed. Remember, it's supposed to take years at light speed travel to get from one star to another. Just a thought."<<< 😐

Originally posted by Black Arachnid
For example, if it COULD be used past the listed limits he could have used it to beat Cell (that IT kamehameha took like 5 minutes, and was far from easy), beat Kid Buu easier, and get the dragon radar when he sent Trunks.

Originally posted by Black Arachnid
3) Fighting technique: Goku utilizes a variety of martial arts and techniques derived from his own traning.

Originally posted by Black Arachnid
4) Durability: Goku is easily cut, bruised, and bleeding from punches of those of similar strength level. His defense against ki is high, but his physical durability is vulnurable to strong hits such as those from continent cracking Superman.

Originally posted by Black Arachnid
Superman has withstood planet shattering blasts and hits from people HIS own strength level (far above Goku's) without showing too much injury.

Originally posted by Black Arachnid
5) Misc. attributes: Goku has shown to be able to fight in close quarters with the likes of Yakon in complete darkness through his sensitive skin. However, Yakan WAS extremely weak and slow.

Originally posted by Black Arachnid
Superman is able to hear an ants footfalls a mile away, and is able to even feel dust falling on his skin. His x-ray vision allows him to scan through any object instantly. These allow Superman to constantly moniter the battlefield.

Originally posted by Black Arachnid
Additionally, while Goku can sense powerlevels it would be a hinderence to him in this fight (as mentioned earlier). As shown in his fight with 19 and 20, Goku is completely thrown off when he cannot sense powerlevels (as Superman would have no more then average human ki).

🤨 wait.. THAT'S what you're basing your standard of evidence on? 😆 goku might as well be trying to sense the "power level" of a toaster oven! those robots had NO ki whatsoever, even the amount that they stole was instantly intigrated into their system... so unless supes and goku were fighting in a crowded area goku would have no trouble locking onto supe's power level... seriously he's been able to detect gohan's power level which was almost completely gone from space.. but he can't lock onto supes?

Originally posted by Black Arachnid
Freeza also showed what kind of disadvantage is had when your oppenent can sense you but you cannot (As Superman can see, sense, and smell Goku anywhere while Goku only has sight at this point).

Originally posted by Black Arachnid
Superman's heat vision would be able to pierce Goku's skin quite easily into his brain and lobotomize him (as their skin is shown to be cut quite easily by non-ki sources such as blades) but because that would be out of character for Superman we'll discount this tatcic.

Originally posted by Black Arachnid
While Goku's ki destructive potential is high, he needs time to charge up planet destroying blasts.

Originally posted by Black Arachnid
As evidence, notice how errant blasts constantly blow up everywhere later in dbz WITHOUT the planet going bye bye. Up against speed like Superman's, he'd be hard pressed to find this time. Also, as noted earlier, Superman CAN take planet destroying blasts just fine.

Originally posted by Black Arachnid
Additionally, Goku would never "blow up the planet/sun" as that would ALSO be out of character for Goku to kill everyone he knows for a mere victory (not that it'd even work!)

Originally posted by Black Arachnid
Superman is also able to survive in space for sometime, while Goku is in a constant need for air (compared to Superman). This versitility of Superman may come into play.

Kryptonite would never come into play, as Goku has NO WAY AT ALL in determining hat it even is, where it is, and that Superman is weak to it. Also, Superman is a solar battery. His reserves can last MONTHS from when he is separated from the yellow sunlight (how else can he have his space adventures?) so that weakness would also never come into play here.

Originally posted by dvampire
Goku in ssj > normal sayian saga Vegeta. Goku didn't survive the blast and the blast Vegeta was hit with wasn't planet destroying.

yes it was.. it was stronger than the galet gun.. an attack vegeta had prided himself in knowing that it was a planet destroying attack.. also.. goku isn't >>> vegeta if goku isn't trying to defend himself with chi as krillin displayed with the rock incident.. 😕

Originally posted by dvampire
It killed ssj Goku. And it was never shown how Freiza survived in the manga (he probaly used the last of his energy to escape to space), after Goku escaped from Namek, it went right to trunks part, where Freiza was now a Cyborg. 😕

jawdrop

wiat. you meant cell saga for the ssj goku part right?

and okay so a frieza who was totally and utterly defeated with practically no power left someone managed to get power to survive the explosion? oh wait you question thathe was even on the planet.. though he was helplessly floating in the debris... lol 🙄 whatever....

Originally posted by jinzin
i seem to remember classic wonder woman able to give supes hell and she's a class 70 character... 😕 but goku can't?

look.. again.. powerlevels are relative, goku as a kid with the PL of 30 was running around with 10 ton boulders.... do the PL math

in any case it's hardly relivant... the major source for DBZ fighters is their striking power which has absolutely nothing to do with their physical strength but rather their chi, just because they can't lift as much as superman doesn't mean that superman's punches would have a much greater effect on them than other DBZ fighter because.... HE DOESN'T USE CHI!

Then again, the same character has owned or stalemated characters that would own Goku physically and survived worse as well.

Originally posted by jinzin
[QUOTE=6957114]Originally posted by jinzin
he wasn't lapping the earth the whole time, hespent a few seconds (in the manga ONE PANAL) doing that feat.. you can't assume he used his whole half hour for that when he was showing doing other shit a majority of the time... 🤨

so then a gotenks who wasn't even trying can match up to half his speed.. then a gotenks at level 3 and TRYING would be faster...

You also can't assume that he was using that type of speed... has Goku vibrated in place through physical and energy attacks?

Originally posted by jinzin
he doesn't need a 'large Ki source" to use it.. 🤨 all he needs is something to concentrate on.. I mean hell unless you think kame's house is full of "large ki sources" 🙄

I don't see how a teleport helps Goku win... I guess Nightcrawler now can pwnz Superman...

Originally posted by jinzin
I seriously doubt it would be the same as an average person but yeah it'd be low as hell.. again... with kame's house as a standard of evidence.. well.. your theory kinda goes "debunk"...

😐

Superman actually has KI... If he uses it though, it's T-vo time... and with that...it's lights out Goku....

Originally posted by jinzin
>>>"Albert Einstein theorized that time and gravity are a close link. He also said if you travel at the speed of light your body will age slower than people that are not. If you travel at the speed of light for 10 years, came back to earth, you'll be 10,000 years into the future (or something like that). In 1976 a physicist theorized you can travel back in time by getting and object with a gravity 100,000 stronger than our sun's, stand at the edge of it, and spin the object close to light speed. The exact opposite of going to the future in which you must go at the speed of light.

Remember, the higher ones gravity or weight in proportion to one's relative gravity, the faster time would travel. To an ant, life seems just as long as to an elephant. That's why flies have much better reflexes.

Now, imagine the Earth, the Sun and a blackhole laying on top of a rubber sheet. Earth will bend the sheet a little and the Sun will bend the sheet a lot because its heavier. A Black Hole on the other hand will break through the sheet. The Black Hole has such a powerful gravity that even light cannot escape. The Black Hole is quite literally making it's own time frame and own universe. In other words, if you bend gravity, you bend time. Any physicist will tell you this.

Did you ever notice why gravity seems to be the main topic of massive powerlevel increases? That's because Goku is able to adapt to lets say 450 times gravity. To him, normal now is 450 times gravity. Everything in the normal gravity world just seems slow when he's charged up. Sure, there are other ways of become ungodly powerful in DBZ without gravity training, but this is concrete evidence. Goku in which now mastered time a gravity himself because earth's gravity is no longer an obstacle.

DBZ characters usually don't make sonic booms even though they travel much faster than the speed of sound. Well, think about it. Vegeta is like a black hole, his power is so strong that he's able (you guessed it) bend time and gravity himself! History lesson: In 1996 a French physicist proposed on can travel at the speed of light without actually going the speed of light. If you can squeeze the gravity ahead of you, you can get past the object faster but still going at the same speed. That's because there's less distance between you and your desired point. What Vegeta does is bend gravity ahead of him so he can get closer, lets say, Recoom, without having to break the law of physics which does not permit traveling close to the speed of light. The higher one's powerlevel, the higher one's "gravity". So Vegeta gets to Recoom without actually traveling faster than the speed of sound in which ladies and gentleman, without making a sonic boom.

Why do you think when character charge up, they strangely alter gravity around them? Or when two character lock up, the ground around them creates a crater? They create their own gravity. Akira Toriyama is a smart fellow. He probably knew this without actually knowing why.

PS- Isn't it funny that the same gravity enhancing ship that Goku used to get to planet Namek also lets him travel beyond light speed. Remember, it's supposed to take years at light speed travel to get from one star to another. Just a thought."<<< 😐

Nice essay, but we much prefer scans and on panel proof.

Originally posted by jinzin
you mean like superman uses his super speed adantage on darksied to beat him every ti---oh no my mistake...
(just cause the character doesn't display said ability in every fight doesn't mean the character doesn't have it)

supes has been straight up schooled by wonder woman in fighting ability, he was OUTFOUGHT by a mindless doomsday, and a magically enhanced batman has kicked the crap out of him.. he may have learned some fighting ability, but his capability to use it effectively is something else altogether... he's very "meat and potatoes" from the looks fo things.

Magically enhanced Batman? Recently Superman owned a Kryptonite possesed Batman by using PRESSURE points... Bats was paralized from touching...

Originally posted by jinzin
he gets hurt by ki not blunt trauma.. even the kicks and punches in DBZ are ki induced.. they kinda have to be.. superman punches are not comparible... unless superman is packing planet destroying power in every punch... or unless you think frieza was holding back less than 1% of his power against goku while fighting on namek after transforming to his 100% state.. 😕

Supes punches aren't comparable, they are FAR more powerful than any physical attack a DBZ character can come up with. Goku would get pwned by Doomsday in physical battle any day of the week.

Originally posted by jinzin
it wasn't ki, it's not comparible... look.. for basic comic books, iron fist is a PERFECT example of this.. the guy is peak human... but with his ki he has stalemated wrecker in a stand up, and knocked out hulk unconcious.. he's also shattered steel... for as strong as guys like thing and hulk are they bend or crater steel with punches.. I've NEVER seen them shatter it like glass.. iron fist has.. the same princible applies to dbz characters.. that's why brute strength isn't comparible to a dbz ki powered punch... it's just not no matter how hard you try to make it LOOK like it is.

You're using feats from Iron fist to argue on Goku's behalf? Not even comparable.

Originally posted by jinzin
[B good for him, he can moniter all he wants while goku blows him away.. [/B]

Actually, BAD for Goku, when your opponent can see and hear around the world or across space.... you have issues...

Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
Then again, the same character has owned or stalemated characters that would own Goku physically and survived worse as well.

Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
You also can't assume that he was using that type of speed... has Goku vibrated in place through physical and energy attacks?

about the vibration thing....
😆

good one! 😂

oh wait.... were you serious? shock

uhhhhh watch/read the frieza saga.. yeah goku's done just that... and he was toying around.. no joke 😐

Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
I don't see how a teleport helps Goku win... I guess Nightcrawler now can pwnz Superman...

give wonder woman teleportation and see what she does to super--- oh wait she doesn't need teleportation to own supes.. 😕

meh.. good thing I.T. IS NOT teleportation... or have you not been reading through?

Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
Superman actually has KI... If he uses it though, it's T-vo time... and with that...it's lights out Goku....

Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
Nice essay, but we much prefer scans and on panel proof.

oh wait! I know! that was just another way of saying "nu-uh!"

yawn

Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
Magically enhanced Batman? Recently Superman owned a Kryptonite possesed Batman by using PRESSURE points... Bats was paralized from touching...

Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
Supes punches aren't comparable, they are FAR more powerful than any physical attack a DBZ character can come up with.

and yes energy attacks ARE physical...

Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
Goku would get pwned by Doomsday in physical battle any day of the week.

Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
You're using feats from Iron fist to argue on Goku's behalf? Not even comparable.

it's to help people who are more inclined to think "comic book" instead of manga.. it serves as a GREAT comparison actually...

Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
Actually, BAD for Goku, when your opponent can see and hear around the world or across space.... you have issues...

Originally posted by jinzin
like whom?

Eradicator, Doomsday, Preus, Asmodel, Cyborg, Dominus, Darkseid, Need I go on?

Originally posted by jinzin
even though there's plenty of eveidence that outwieghs the assumption he wasn't?

about the vibration thing....
😆

good one! 😂

oh wait.... were you serious? shock

uhhhhh watch/read the frieza saga.. yeah goku's done just that... and he was toying around.. no joke 😐

Really? Goku has become invisible through this type of technique for extended periods of time effortlessly?

Originally posted by jinzin
give wonder woman teleportation and see what she does to super--- oh wait she doesn't need teleportation to own supes.. 😕

meh.. good thing I.T. IS NOT teleportation... or have you not been reading through?

You mean like Braniac, Luthor, Eradicator ect? She's stalemated Supes at best...where did you get "owned" from? I suggest you reread their battles...

Goku is no wonder woman... outside of his famous Ki blasts, she would own HIM as well.

Give WW teleportation..good one...lol

Originally posted by jinzin
I'm not arguing that he has ki.. technically ALL creatures have ki he just has no way of using it to any decent capacity...

Supes has used KI...for Torquasm VO... if Goku senses ki..the fight is over... unless you think Goku is close to Dominus like power...

Originally posted by jinzin
you want me to use scans to prove physics? 🤨

oh wait! I know! that was just another way of saying "nu-uh!"

yawn

Make all the "nu uh" jokes you want... I'll happily wait for any on panel proof you have... I have TONS of it posted from my PERSONAL collection in the Superman respect thread.

So "nuh uh" you have no on panel proof then is what I'll happily assume. Physics and comics don't usually relate...but then again, common sense would tell you that. Unless you can explain how anyone could easily survive in the sun.

Originally posted by jinzin

I've posted them in the Superman respect thread. They are quite big and clear..you may want to take a look..if not, I'm sure Dvamp will be happy to dig em up for ya...

Let me guess...this is your version of "Nuh uh?"

[QUOTE=6957453]Originally posted by jinzin
[B] so you think he has planet destroying power in each attack? 🤨

and yes energy attacks ARE physical...

so would supes.. your point being?

That Supes would own Goku, faster, more durable, stronger, etc.... your point is "my guy can throw big blasts and teleport" lol, Goku isn't even up to a low level GL... sorry bro.

Originally posted by jinzin
OH NO!!! not another "NU-UH!" argument!!! How can ANY logic overcome something so well planned and thought out as that?!?!?!?! fear

it's to help people who are more inclined to think "comic book" instead of manga.. it serves as a GREAT comparison actually...

Logic has been posted all over the forum on Supes behalf, "Nuh uh" and "well, look at this LOW POINT for Supes" is your answer...knowing Goku has even lower points...lol

Originally posted by jinzin
🤨 I have issues? hmmmm funny, the androids can see and hear goku just fine.. doesn't stop him from kicking the ever lovin crap outa them... I think you need to rethink the premise of your arguments.. "nu-uh" that's all I have to say about that...

So are you claiming the Cyborgs have senses equal to Superman? pfft... They've heard people across space and seen as far are the wall on the edge of space? Doubtful.

Hell, Supes could use a sonic attack and scramble Gokus brains.

QUOTE=6957705]Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
Eradicator, Doomsday, Preus, Asmodel, Cyborg, Dominus, Darkseid, Need I go on? [/QUOTE] first of... doomsday would shit kick supes all day without effort..

second when has regular post crisis supes faced down asmodel without help?

third cyborg would get absolutely WRECKED by the androids of DBZ nevermind goku...

fourth, Dominus isn't impressive.. he had to convince supes to take over the world for him.. 🤨 if you're talking about goku vs. telepathic abilities.. yeah goku would probably be dropped.. this isn't a telepathic match up however... hell babadi would shit kick superman to the end of time and back using his frailty against magic.. doesn't mean that goku would beat him to you does it?

darkseid is the worst example you could come up with.. he lacks 80% of the attributes that goku or an DBZer has and he still registers hits on supes...

need you go on? well not really, if all the examples you can bring to the table are irrelivant as these. 😐

Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
Really? Goku has become invisible through this type of technique for extended periods of time effortlessly?

Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
You mean like Braniac, Luthor, Eradicator ect? She's stalemated Supes at best...where did you get "owned" from? I suggest you reread their battles...

Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
Goku is no wonder woman... outside of his famous Ki blasts, she would own HIM as well.

Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
Give WW teleportation..good one...lol

Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
Supes has used KI...for Torquasm VO... if Goku senses ki..the fight is over... unless you think Goku is close to Dominus like power...

.....well to be honest I think in terms of brute power goku OWNS dominus.... of course I think he OWNS supes too so that shouldn't be too incredibly difficult to figure out what I think of him....

Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
Make all the "nu uh" jokes you want... I'll happily wait for any on panel proof you have... I have TONS of it posted from my PERSONAL collection in the Superman respect thread.

dude. the on panal proof I DID bring to the table to display the speed of DBZ character, was STILL failed to be properly arged against.. (remember the radditz example?) and you guys didn't like that.. so now I'm giving something backed by pshyics and you STILL don't like it.. what exactly WILL convince you?

Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
So "nuh uh" you have no on panel proof then is what I'll happily assume. Physics and comics don't usually relate...but then again, common sense would tell you that. Unless you can explain how anyone could easily survive in the sun.

Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
That Supes would own Goku, faster, more durable, stronger, etc.... your point is "my guy can throw big blasts and teleport" lol, Goku isn't even up to a low level GL... sorry bro.

you're logic's a little... "off" here....

Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
Logic has been posted all over the forum on Supes behalf, "Nuh uh" and "well, look at this LOW POINT for Supes" is your answer...knowing Goku has even lower points...lol

Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
So are you claiming the Cyborgs have senses equal to Superman?

Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
Hell, Supes could use a sonic attack and scramble Gokus brains.

Originally posted by jinzin
first of... doomsday would shit kick supes all day without effort..

second when has regular post crisis supes faced down asmodel without help?

third cyborg would get absolutely WRECKED by the androids of DBZ nevermind goku...

fourth, Dominus isn't impressive.. he had to convince supes to take over the world for him.. 🤨 if you're talking about goku vs. telepathic abilities.. yeah goku would probably be dropped.. this isn't a telepathic match up however... hell babadi would shit kick superman to the end of time and back using his frailty against magic.. doesn't mean that goku would beat him to you does it?

darkseid is the worst example you could come up with.. he lacks 80% of the attributes that goku or an DBZer has and he still registers hits on supes...

need you go on? well not really, if all the examples you can bring to the table are irrelivant as these. 😐

Cyborg wrecked by the Androids? Now I know you're living in a dreamworld...Borg would have them beating themselves up without even trying. The beatdown is so bad that I'd say all 3 would lose to him by himself... Get real... You don't even know his powerset from the sounds of it.

Darkseid Omega Beams Goku into ash within seconds....

Goku wouldn't even be able to touch Asmodel without burning himself or turning into ash...

Eradicator could turn Goku into a toothbrush...

Dominus altered realities on a whim. Goku gets uncreated or frozen in time. If you need to be schooled on these guys...no problem.

etc... Need more examples?

Originally posted by jinzin
basically yeah he did just THAT... when burta and jeice attacked him they were throwing all sorts of shit at him and nothing connected with it's target cause goku was moving all around them, but to jeice and burta's eyes (and remember that super speed/ hyper speed was burta's trump card) goku appeared to be not moving at all.. when superman vibrates you can still see the movements of his body.. you couldn't with goku.. he has a more impressive feat by default.. and he wasn't even trying.. literally...

After some of the responses you've given, proof is definitely a neccesity...

Originally posted by jinzin
all parties who HAVE beaten supes using said powers.. 😬
probably when she used her tiara to slash his throat out.. 😕

you're right he's by FAR more impressive than her.. hell he was when he was 25. nevermind anything past the sayian saga...

it is cause she'd obliterate supes...

All parties who have given Superman trouble due to a varying amount of abilities that Goku DOESN'T have and STILL lost.

So the MAGIC tiara is your trump card? LOL... Let's see, that was after he KO'D her and punched her across space back to earth, she pulled out kryptonite, and he didn't toss her into the sun...her lucky stars helped her. She barely squeeked past that one. Let's not forget that time he shattered her magical blade with a drop of his blood used as a projectile...

She would OWN Goku however. Glad that you think that highly of her. :-)

Originally posted by jinzin
Ki? low level psionic powers that are part of the kryptonian inheritance and a bit of mental training are KI now? Dude you're TOTALLY blowing T-vo out of proportion... that's utterly ridiculous... I'm to assume that superman could take goku in a contest of mental wills? no way.... in that regard they would probably stalemate.. and considering the fact that goku has more psionic ability that he's actually gained from his chi manipulation, I honestly don't think supes would win using that either... And correct me if I'm wrong but that DOES take more time to use than a DBZ energy blast... or I.T......

.....well to be honest I think in terms of brute power goku OWNS dominus.... of course I think he OWNS supes too so that shouldn't be too incredibly difficult to figure out what I think of him....

Then you are hopelessly lost, I guess you also think that Goku beat cosmic characters that are skyfather level + . Yes, Goku can beat time stopping, reality warping, eternity level beating characters...

Right...

Obviously you don't know WHAT T-VO is... maybe you should read some comics with Superman using it.

Originally posted by jinzin
I wish it was a joke 😐 and again asking me to post "on panal proof" of physics?

dude. the on panal proof I DID bring to the table to display the speed of DBZ character, was STILL failed to be properly arged against.. (remember the radditz example?) and you guys didn't like that.. so now I'm giving something backed by pshyics and you STILL don't like it.. what exactly WILL convince you?

what does surviving in the sun have to do with making sense of things? that's a rather ridiculous logical leap...

I didn't see this "proof"... as for failed to argue against, YOU are the one who wants to disregard proof. I've listed even a group of guys Superman has beaten in his career and you gleefully and fanboyishly claim that Goku even has a chance against them.

Goku can't absorb the type of damage Superman can...that's what the sun example is about. Simple as that.

Originally posted by jinzin
you're point was that domsday kicking goku's ass = superman being faster, stronger, and more durable etc etc than goku when doomsday would kick superman's ass too? 🤨

you're logic's a little... "off" here....

Superman has gained at least 2 wins in physical battle over him. Goku would get -none- Since you admite DD would kick Gokus ass, funny that you think the Supes won't do the same.

Originally posted by jinzin
😂 okay now you're just projecting your and all the supes supporters' arguments onto me.. lol..
ridiculous.

Not as ridiculous as most of your examples and "Nuh uh" attitude...
I'm not projecting anything. Get some scans, and I'll go scan by scan with you on this...simple right? I'm 100% confident Superman will win.

Originally posted by jinzin
I'm saying you can "see and hear" your opponent all you want but it won't matter if he/she still kicks the shit out of you....

Yes, In your goku fantasy land where he's godlike. Superman is far faster than Goku with far better senses and a computerlike mind. Heat
vision alone could take out Goku. Yes, Supes can beat him just by looking at him!

Originally posted by jinzin
again.. either you can accept the DBZ physics theory or you can accept that goku's already up against characters that move fast enough to create sonic booms and he doesn't get injured.. have it your way either way means that's not a viable tactic for supes to win.. but nice fantasy you got going there... 🙄

Faster than light speed >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Sonic booms. If you're into physics, surely you know that. Holding a black hole in your hand or being in the center of the sun>>> fireballs anyday as well.

I like how you tried to argue logic and Ki... because I'm sure science and Ki go together well...lol

I suppose your next argument is that Goku is invulnerable to fists?
It's not myself or the other Supes supporters in fantasy...

It' so bad that you messed up all your quotes in your replies. Calm down a bit dude.

Originally posted by jinzin
QUOTE=6957705]Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
[B]Eradicator, Doomsday, Preus, Asmodel, Cyborg, Dominus, Darkseid, Need I go on?

second when has regular post crisis supes faced down asmodel without help?

[/B][/QUOTE]

dude, a weakened energy supes took on asmodel

weekened??? he was supercharged from the watch tower and prevented the moon from being slamed into the earth. Sure it was an impressive feat (nonPIS) but to make it seem like he was drained of all his energy is crazy.

I think energy supes has a better chance of taken Goku then normal supes. couldn't energy supes fight while being intangble?

Originally posted by Sparkz
Hey I just thought of a reason DBZ characters move at the SOL. The after image technique, the image is produced by the character moving at the speed of light and leaving an image of themselfs in their place. (I can't belive I forgot that technique)

🤨 Uh, no... it just means that they're moving fast.

Originally posted by jinzin
even though he attacked cooler using it? for a guy who says OUR arguments are purley assumption based.. 🙄

Uh, maybe you should watch it again... they both knew how to use IT, yet whenever the other wasn't using it, they would reintegrate before attacking (example: Goku throws a punch, Cooler disappears and then reappears with a punch; Goku disappears and reappears with a kick). The only time that they were shown actually attacking while in IT was when they were both using it, which showed them apparently out of phase with the rest of the world, meaning that Goku most likely couldn't even come into contact with anyone while out of phase like that.

Originally posted by The Unknown
Uh, maybe you should watch it again... they both knew how to use IT, yet whenever the other wasn't using it, they would reintegrate before attacking (example: Goku throws a punch, Cooler disappears and then reappears with a punch; Goku disappears and reappears with a kick). The only time that they were shown actually attacking while in IT was when they were both using it, which showed them apparently out of phase with the rest of the world, meaning that Goku most likely couldn't even come into contact with anyone while out of phase like that.

Originally posted by The Unknown
🤨 Uh, no... it just means that they're moving fast.

No, you would have to move faster than the speed of light to do that, if you moved faster than the speed of sound for example you would do things before you could hear it, as in this case they move faster than light so they do things before we can see leaving an image of themselfs in their place.

Originally posted by Sparkz
No, you would have to move faster than the speed of light to do that, if you moved faster than the speed of sound for example you would do things before you could hear it, as in this case they move faster than light so they do things before we can see leaving an image of themselfs in their place.

Wave your hand fast enough and it almost looks like it's in 2 places at once. It doesn't mean you are faster than light.