Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
Cyborg wrecked by the Androids? Now I know you're living in a dreamworld...Borg would have them beating themselves up without even trying. The beatdown is so bad that I'd say all 3 would lose to him by himself... Get real... You don't even know his powerset from the sounds of it.
remember why you brought these examples up in the first place. You SAID that these characters would physically dominate goku.... that said, you implied a physical confrontation... if cyborg NEEDS to revert to attacking the androids using his TP than he can't beat them in PHYSICAL combat.. which is what you brought these guys up for in the first place.. 😬
Originally posted by Avalonofthewindlike they did to superman's face? 😱 oh wait.... that's right they didn't do hardly anything to supe's face..
Darkseid Omega Beams Goku into ash within seconds....
again.. even low level DBZers are capible of taking planet busters.... a suped up superman has been temporarily put down by a 1million nuke blast.... it gave him a concussion... DBZ characters are more durable by default.
Originally posted by Avalonofthewindbecause goku's not pure enough? wait.. that can't be it.. no I got it cause goku's not pure energy (recalls goku's battle aura that surrounds his entire body when powered up).... nope that can't be it either.. again then.. what DO you mean?
Goku wouldn't even be able to touch Asmodel without burning himself or turning into ash...
look... I asked you when REGULAR post crisis supes has toe to toed with asmodel without help... if you're about to bring up energy supes like your buddy did down there, then you're being disingenuine since we both know that superman blue IS NOT the same as superman now. If that's all you got then asmodel is an irrelivant example anyways.
Originally posted by Avalonofthewind🤨
Eradicator could turn Goku into a toothbrush...
Originally posted by Avalonofthewind"physical confrontation" it's what you implied... each time dominus tried to get into it with supes like that he got ass raped hell the guy might be able to create alternate realities but he's still not even at cosmic level in terms of physical power.. akin to franklin richards: beastly powers but would most likely lose in PHYSICAL CONFRONTATIONS vs. anybody
Dominus altered realities on a whim. Goku gets uncreated or frozen in time. If you need to be schooled on these guys...no problem.
Originally posted by Avalonofthewindthus far your examples are irrelivant or terrible... keep em comin if you like though....
etc... Need more examples?
Originally posted by Avalonofthewindyou ARE serious.... 😐
After some of the responses you've given, proof is definitely a neccesity...
okay well.. I'll try and get ritoshi to give you the evidence... my scanners broken and i don't have the episode on my computer.
Originally posted by Avalonofthewindall guys that goku would absolutely annihalate. look they have teleportation powers and have beaten supes.. goku has instantaneous movement.. superman CAN'T be faster than goku.. it's that simple.
All parties who have given Superman trouble due to a varying amount of abilities that Goku DOESN'T have and STILL lost.
Originally posted by Avalonofthewindwho was on the ground grabbing his throat? I mean that's not even a high end supes/ww fight anyways...
So the MAGIC tiara is your trump card? LOL... Let's see, that was after he KO'D her and punched her across space back to earth, she pulled out kryptonite, and he didn't toss her into the sun...her lucky stars helped her. She barely squeeked past that one. Let's not forget that time he shattered her magical blade with a drop of his blood used as a projectile...
Originally posted by Avalonofthewind🤨 your interpretation of my response is as scewed as your interpretation of DBZ.
She would OWN Goku however. Glad that you think that highly of her. :-)
Originally posted by Avalonofthewindaliens from frieza sage= reality warping, guildo = time stopping both are PATHETIC in terms of overall DBZ power.... yeah I think that if superman can beat someone in a physical matchup WITHOUT help and WITHOUT plot devices to save his ass then goku certainly can save a few RARE examples....
Then you are hopelessly lost, I guess you also think that Goku beat cosmic characters that are skyfather level + . Yes, Goku can beat time stopping, reality warping, eternity level beating characters...
Originally posted by Avalonofthewindbecause I don't overrate it like you do, that means I don't know what it is? steller logic there... 🙄 IMO fighting someone on a mental playing field and making a suit of armor are not that impressive to me... when superman starts using his mind to lift 3 pyramids at the same time.. like piccolo for example.... then we'll talk.
Obviously you don't know WHAT T-VO is... maybe you should read some comics with Superman using it.
Originally posted by Avalonofthewindthe guys you listed are terrible examples... 😕
I didn't see this "proof"... as for failed to argue against, YOU are the one who wants to disregard proof. I've listed even a group of guys Superman has beaten in his career and you gleefully and fanboyishly claim that Goku even has a chance against them.
doomsday would wreck supes (i'm glad that you dropped him above though... bringing up the guy that killed superman as a pro supes argument was very " 🤨 "..... )
darkseid would wreck supes more often than not... and he's not even close to being threatening to a guy like goku...
asmodel well covered why that's a terrible example..
and the other guys you brought up superman more often than not needs HELP fighting... you fail to mention how supes fights them or beats them (coughplotdevicesandhelpcough).... just that he did, and that that's enough.... again.. if superman can do it goku could do it faster.
Originally posted by Avalonofthewindthe sun is a TERRIBLE example like the rest of your balony... the sun POWERS supes up.... he's not going to be harmed by the thing that POWERS HIM.. it's like saying that aquaman has indefinite durability cause he can go to the ocean depths.. uhhh no.. not when he's powered by it.
Goku can't absorb the type of damage Superman can...that's what the sun example is about. Simple as that.
Originally posted by Avalonofthewindlet me be the first to say BULL....SHIT..... 😐
Superman has gained at least 2 wins in physical battle over him. Goku would get -none- Since you admite DD would kick Gokus ass, funny that you think the Supes won't do the same.
superman has NEVER... and I mean NEVER gotten a decisive physical win over doomsday.. the only time he even CAME CLOSE.. was against doomsday's weakest representation during the DOS arc and EVEN THEN superman paid a heavy price with the cost of his life...
the ONLY reason why goku wouldn't be able to take out DOS doomsday but superman could is because by that point domsday had never had a noteworthy phsical confrontation in terms of raw brute power... so supes had a trump card to play.. by this poit goku couldn't do anything to him because he already fought and lost to the radiant a being of pure enrgy... if it wasn't for that then goku would beat dd too... but after DOS neither goku or supes. OR BOTH for that matter would do a god damned thing to doomsday....
Now I have to assume that the other example/examples you're reffering to are either in reference to IC issue 7 or supes 175... on BOTH accounts... THAT was DOOMSDAY REX... doomsday rex is NOT the same thing as doomsday he's pale imatation, a flawed clone and yes goku would curbstomp THAT version of doomsday all over the galaxy and back.... but against the REAL doomsday.. superman wouldn't win any either... hence: TERRIBLE EXAMPLE.
Originally posted by Avalonofthewindor vid for scan since this IS a gt thread... 🙄 again.. talk to my boy ritoshi.. he knows how to do that shit.. I just know how to bring you facts.. cold hard facts... and going by facts.. supes get the curbstomping of a lifetime.
Not as ridiculous as most of your examples and "Nuh uh" attitude...
I'm not projecting anything. Get some scans, and I'll go scan by scan with you on this...simple right? I'm 100% confident Superman will win.
Originally posted by Avalonofthewindheat vision couldn't take goku alone 🤨.. heat vision isn't planet busting in terms of intensity.. dbz blasts are..... now you might think.. "but if that were the case then all the blasts that hit earth blah blah blah"... I have one word for you.. control....
Yes, In your goku fantasy land where he's godlike. Superman is far faster than Goku with far better senses and a computerlike mind. Heat
vision alone could take out Goku. Yes, Supes can beat him just by looking at him!
far better senses mean about jack shit to a person who can "feel" every move you attempt to make....
computerlike mind? what does that have to do with fighting ability? goku's a great fighter, that's what he does well... supes is more intelligent than him sure but that's textbook intelliegence not fighting intelligence... goku is better at that by far.
and yes.. DBZ characters ARE godly in terms of power.. I believe I've already said that....
look buu defeated the god of god's easily. he went on a god killing spree.... who had to take him down.. DBZ fighters.. and EVERY ONE of those saiyans were stronger than him and WOULD have killed buu if not for his regenerative abilities... able to regenerate from vapor...
kame is the god of earth... he's far more powerful than any earthen being but he pails to DBZ fighters..
king yemma is the god of judgment and even radditz gave him a little trouble while passing... and he was stated to pail in comparison to king kai (who is also a god) who goku would soon come to surpass.
Originally posted by Avalonofthewindi wasn't refering to that example for the sake of speed.. goku already beats supes speed wise...
Faster than light speed >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Sonic booms. If you're into physics, surely you know that. Holding a black hole in your hand or being in the center of the sun>>> fireballs anyday as well.
Originally posted by Avalonofthewindyou meant physics and ki right? cause logic doesn't contradict ki, logic is a tool....
I like how you tried to argue logic and Ki... because I'm sure science and Ki go together well...lol
in any case I brought up physics to explain something that people kept calling PIS... and then I just flat out gave examples.. you have to go one way or the other.. you can't ignore both or your not worth arguing against because it shows that no matter what evidence is presented to you, you'll discard what you don't like.
Originally posted by Avalonofthewinddepends on who's throwing them.. and I like how you try to project that claim onto me when AGAIN superman fans have already said it with the whole vibrating nonsense....
I suppose your next argument is that Goku is invulnerable to fists?
It's not myself or the other Supes supporters in fantasy...
Originally posted by AvalonofthewindAll my quotes? i messed up like.. two.. 😬 and made a couple of spelling errors...
It' so bad that you messed up all your quotes in your replies. Calm down a bit dude.
clearly you're overrating yourself like you do superman if you think you're getting me flustered.. I'm completely calm.
Originally posted by Sparkz
No, you would have to move faster than the speed of light to do that, if you moved faster than the speed of sound for example you would do things before you could hear it, as in this case they move faster than light so they do things before we can see leaving an image of themselfs in their place.
😆 So you're claiming that they can move at SoL in Dragonball?
Originally posted by jinzin
i wasn't refering to that example for the sake of speed.. goku already beats supes speed wise...
Only by using the IT, which is teleportation. Even then, when used locally (such as in a battle), Superman's method of speed if much more efficient.
Originally posted by jinzin
the sun's a terrible example.. and gohan's already resisted the gravitational force of a black hole.. TWICE by overcoming the deadzone... and he was a damned CHILD.
Uh...no. The Dead Zone portal is nothing close to the power of a black hole.
Originally posted by The Unknown
Only by using the IT, which is teleportation. Even then, when used locally (such as in a battle), Superman's method of speed if much more efficient.
Originally posted by The Unknownuh yes... cause that's exactly what it was...
Uh...no. The Dead Zone portal is nothing close to the power of a black hole.
Originally posted by jinzin
IT is not teleportation.. it's LIKE teleportation put it's instaneous movement.. that means that it's STILL super speed.. but super speed that allows you to transfer from one location to the next... yes superman DOES have a different method of speed.. it's a slower meathod too.. he can fly at light speed.. he can't fight at light speed... goku and the rest of the DBZ crew can.
They can't fight at light speed... Goku is the only one that can, but only by using IT, which as I already showed seems to put him out of phase. Besides, it takes a brief moment for Goku to shift out of phase and into IT. In that time, Superman could have already circled the Earth and smashed Goku in two.
Originally posted by jinzin
uh yes... cause that's exactly what it was...
Uh, no... if it was a real black hole, then the Earth would have been destroyed...
Ki might work on other heros in The DBZU but it would do nothing in a natural world and if he did useless Ki i think it would be far if he fought Superman blue which then superman would rape him because he can drain his life force and if he fought pre crisis superman Goku or any other DBZ hero would be dead in sec's
Originally posted by jinzin
sure I do... I kinda HAVE to know about cyborg since he hangs around doomsday storylines like a fly to horse shit. But the fact is if he doesn't have a way to take down the cyborgs in combat... And he doesn't.. than his "powerset" doesn't really matter does it?remember why you brought these examples up in the first place. You SAID that these characters would physically dominate goku.... that said, you implied a physical confrontation... if cyborg NEEDS to revert to attacking the androids using his TP than he can't beat them in PHYSICAL combat.. which is what you brought these guys up for in the first place.. 😬
Physically, Lyrically, Hypothetically, or Realistically.... Cyborg wins. Even with you now whining about "oh his powerset" If he isn't easily ripping them to shreds, he turns them into new weapons with a thought.... simple...
Since we won't use powers outside of physical strength then, it's just straight up Supes, Cyborg, DS, Eradicator, Dominus, Preus, Doomsday, Asmodel, WW,etc vs Goku 1 on 1 with no ki... just a physical fight right?
I know the desperation is setting in when you're now complaining about characters fighting at full strength...
Originally posted by jinzin
like they did to superman's face? 😱 oh wait.... that's right they didn't do hardly anything to supe's face..
no wait.. like they did to cyborg's body! (before he powered up to peak potential which took time)... shit how exactly ARE these gonna turn goku to ash again? i doubt they would even hit goku to be honest.
Goku isn't Superman... wait! I forgot! Goku gets erased easily. If he's stupid enough to go H2H with DS, he still get's raped. Take your choice.
Originally posted by jinzin
again.. even low level DBZers are capible of taking planet busters.... a suped up superman has been temporarily put down by a 1million nuke blast.... it gave him a concussion... DBZ characters are more durable by default.
And later on the same Supes has taken planet destroyers without issue. Oh wait, the guy who gets scratched up/bleeds crashing into mountains takes planet destroyers easily... lol The guy who struggles with buildings is somehow supposed to physically fight with the guy who can split the moon with a strike...
Originally posted by jinzin
because goku's not pure enough? wait.. that can't be it.. no I got it cause goku's not pure energy (recalls goku's battle aura that surrounds his entire body when powered up).... nope that can't be it either.. again then.. what DO you mean?look... I asked you when REGULAR post crisis supes has toe to toed with asmodel without help... if you're about to bring up energy supes like your buddy did down there, then you're being disingenuine since we both know that superman blue IS NOT the same as superman now. If that's all you got then asmodel is an irrelivant example anyways.
The confrontation WAS physical, Asmodel didn't use any of his powers on Supes... and Grant Morrison planned of using regular Superman, DC MADE him use Energy Supes. So it's perfectly legit either way...
Where did it say that you have to be pure to not be burned? That was the for the light of heaven attack, not for anything else. WW was considered pure and a magical being at the time and she was burning... Goku would be dead had he tried to wrestle Asmodel. Sorry dude, no way around that....
Originally posted by jinzin
🤨
I guess now Goku is immune to matter manipulation, right? SS, GL, Eradicator etc should be on the losing end of Goku's mighty fists and teleporting! lol
Originally posted by jinzin
"physical confrontation" it's what you implied... each time dominus tried to get into it with supes like that he got ass raped hell the guy might be able to create alternate realities but he's still not even at cosmic level in terms of physical power.. akin to franklin richards: beastly powers but would most likely lose in PHYSICAL CONFRONTATIONS vs. anybodythus far your examples are irrelivant or terrible... keep em comin if you like though....
Physical confrontations that trump Goku in power. Physically, or at full power, Goku is dead. I like how your new "argument" is "they should only fight physically!!!" lol You do know Dominus has a physical body that doesn't get tired and can fight indefinitely, right?
Keep trying to lowball the characters simply because Goku is a low class GL.
Originally posted by jinzin
you ARE serious.... 😐
The sad part is that YOU are serious with the crap you're spewing... you're guy can't even breathe in space, and would burn his tongue drinking hot coffee, yet
ki (which isn't even a weakness for supes... an takes forever to charge up) is supposed to make up for the difference in power...
Originally posted by jinzin
okay well.. I'll try and get ritoshi to give you the evidence... my scanners broken and i don't have the episode on my computer.
I'm cool with Ritoshi, and Ritoshi knows I'm damn good with scans to prove my points when needed. He's also admitted that Goku would lose in a different Superman vs Goku thread...
You're scanners a conviniently down when I offer YOU a simple scan by scan feat comparison... nice....lol
Originally posted by jinzin
all guys that goku would absolutely annihalate. look they have teleportation powers and have beaten supes.. goku has instantaneous movement.. superman CAN'T be faster than goku.. it's that simple.who was on the ground grabbing his throat? I mean that's not even a high end supes/ww fight anyways...
🤨 your interpretation of my response is as scewed as your interpretation of DBZ.
Even with your attempt to power them down, the characters I've named trump Goku. I like how you are trying the "If superman wins, then goku can too!" when it's been shown Goku is far weaker than Supes in SO many areas.
"instantaneous movement" that doesn't even make sense...lol if you moved your finger to type, that's instantaneous movement. Not very impressive, is it?
Nightcrawler teleports, he must be faster than Goku if he doesn't use IT then!
Bad use of "logic" Your speed of sound guys are getting weaker with every argument.
Originally posted by jinzin
aliens from frieza sage= reality warping, guildo = time stopping both are PATHETIC in terms of overall DBZ power.... yeah I think that if superman can beat someone in a physical matchup WITHOUT help and WITHOUT plot devices to save his ass then goku certainly can save a few RARE examples....because I don't overrate it like you do, that means I don't know what it is? steller logic there... 🙄 IMO fighting someone on a mental playing field and making a suit of armor are not that impressive to me... when superman starts using his mind to lift 3 pyramids at the same time.. like piccolo for example.... then we'll talk.
the guys you listed are terrible examples... 😕
So mental was the battlefield that the whole world was watching the battle on tv? That Supes and Dominus were battling changing reality back and forth?
Talking about that...let's see...Superman did break the time/space barrier with his punches when fighting his E2 self, and has countless feats of ridiculous strength and speed to match.
Bye bye Goku.
Originally posted by jinzin
doomsday would wreck supes (i'm glad that you dropped him above though... bringing up the guy that killed superman as a pro supes argument was very " 🤨 "..... )
darkseid would wreck supes more often than not... and he's not even close to being threatening to a guy like goku...
asmodel well covered why that's a terrible example..
and the other guys you brought up superman more often than not needs HELP fighting... you fail to mention how supes fights them or beats them (coughplotdevicesandhelpcough).... just that he did, and that that's enough.... again.. if superman can do it goku could do it faster.
Because there aren't ANY PLOT DEVICES IN DBZ...nope, everyone loves to wait around while other characters charge... you know...like when Goku slowwwwwwwly charged up after getting his ass beat by the androids...
Originally posted by jinzin
the sun is a TERRIBLE example like the rest of your balony... the sun POWERS supes up.... he's not going to be harmed by the thing that POWERS HIM.. it's like saying that aquaman has indefinite durability cause he can go to the ocean depths.. uhhh no.. not when he's powered by it.
BAD ANALOGY. Solar calculators get power from the sun too, guess what happens if you tossed one into the sun? Supes vision is hotter than the sun anyway...Goku would be dead if Supes turned up the heat.
The point is Goku can't survive half the crap Supes has been through physically alone.
Continued...
Originally posted by jinzin
let me be the first to say BULL....SHIT..... 😐superman has NEVER... and I mean NEVER gotten a decisive physical win over doomsday.. the only time he even CAME CLOSE.. was against doomsday's weakest representation during the DOS arc and EVEN THEN superman paid a heavy price with the cost of his life...
the ONLY reason why goku wouldn't be able to take out DOS doomsday but superman could is because by that point domsday had never had a noteworthy phsical confrontation in terms of raw brute power... so supes had a trump card to play.. by this poit goku couldn't do anything to him because he already fought and lost to the radiant a being of pure enrgy... if it wasn't for that then goku would beat dd too... but after DOS neither goku or supes. OR BOTH for that matter would do a god damned thing to doomsday....
Now I have to assume that the other example/examples you're reffering to are either in reference to IC issue 7 or supes 175... on BOTH accounts... THAT was DOOMSDAY REX... doomsday rex is NOT the same thing as doomsday he's pale imatation, a flawed clone and yes goku would curbstomp THAT version of doomsday all over the galaxy and back.... but against the REAL doomsday.. superman wouldn't win any either... hence: TERRIBLE EXAMPLE.
The first time they killed each other in PHYSICAL BATTLE....the DD you highly regard took EFFORT to take down Superman. In fact, he died as well. You admitted that DD can beat Goku but Supes can't? The Superman who's been upgraded a ton since that fight and has a ton of powers at his disposal?
Even your "DD Rex" would trump Goku... he's still on the same power levels. Nowhere in the issue does it say that it's a clone...Nice try. Since you read 175, you know that same DD was sent to apokalips, later escapes and was the Gog wars DD.
Originally posted by jinzin
or vid for scan since this IS a gt thread... 🙄 again.. talk to my boy ritoshi.. he knows how to do that shit.. I just know how to bring you facts.. cold hard facts... and going by facts.. supes get the curbstomping of a lifetime.
So far we've seen, Superman is faster. Goku isn't as durable, or anywhere near as strong. His best chance is a planet destroying attack that would take forever to charge up and that Superman could easily dodge or HV away.
Going by facts... Goku is dead before any sweat has hit his jawline.
He simply doesn't compare. The cold hard facts... Goku is low GL level without any of the GL versatility. Bye bye goku!
Originally posted by Black Arachnid
Ki might work on other heros in The DBZU but it would do nothing in a natural world and if he did useless Ki i think it would be far if he fought Superman blue which then superman would rape him because he can drain his life force and if he fought pre crisis superman Goku or any other DBZ hero would be dead in sec's
Superman blue would own GOKU so bad that even I would feel bad about it.
Originally posted by The UnknownNo, all of them can by the end of the sayian saga.
They can't fight at light speed... Goku is the only one that can, but only by using IT, which as I already showed seems to put him out of phase. Besides, it takes a brief moment for Goku to shift out of phase and into IT. In that time, Superman could have already circled the Earth and smashed Goku in two.
and your assumptions of I.T> are proven wrong in movie 6 the evidence is RIGHT THERE.....
.. FIRST you have to prove me wrong about that.. then we'll talk.
Originally posted by The Unknownwhich it would have had the dead zone continued to suck everything into it's increasing gravity... but since gohen kept banishing garlic.. well...
Uh, no... if it was a real black hole, then the Earth would have been destroyed...
Originally posted by jinzin
No, all of them can by the end of the sayian saga.and your assumptions of I.T> are proven wrong in movie 6 the evidence is RIGHT THERE.....
.. FIRST you have to prove me wrong about that.. then we'll talk.
I already did disprove that.
Originally posted by jinzin
which it would have had the dead zone continued to suck everything into it's increasing gravity... but since gohen kept banishing garlic.. well...
It may have eventually turned into a true black hole, but what is shown in the series and movie isn't one.
Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
Physically, Lyrically, Hypothetically, or Realistically.... Cyborg wins. Even with you now whining about "oh his powerset" If he isn't easily ripping them to shreds, he turns them into new weapons with a thought.... simple...Since we won't use powers outside of physical strength then, it's just straight up Supes, Cyborg, DS, Eradicator, Dominus, Preus, Doomsday, Asmodel, WW,etc vs Goku 1 on 1 with no ki... just a physical fight right?
I know the desperation is setting in when you're now complaining about characters fighting at full strength...
who's complaining... you said physical matchup.... that's a fight... babadi could beat superman with a spell, gynu could easily use his bodyswitch on supes, goku by the end of GT could simply wish superman out of existence... but that's not a fight which is what I thought we were discussing here.
and ki blasts are very physical they may LOOK transparent but they're completely physical weapons.. just ask planet vegeta. physical matchup implies a fight... and in a fight DBZ fighters kick the shit out of these guys...
or rather, your desperation is apparent every time you're caught changing the subject to save your ass.
Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
Goku isn't Superman... wait! I forgot! Goku gets erased easily. If he's stupid enough to go H2H with DS, he still get's raped. Take your choice.
no he's not superman he's far more durable than supes could ever hope to be. 😂 if batman with a motherbox is sitting there taking darksieds assault..... and you're trying to tell me darksied would beat a guy who's more durable than him, faster, more powerful and a better fighter?.... HA!
Originally posted by Avalonofthewind🤨
And later on the same Supes has taken planet destroyers without issue. Oh wait, the guy who gets scratched up/bleeds crashing into mountains takes planet destroyers easily... lol The guy who struggles with buildings is somehow supposed to physically fight with the guy who can split the moon with a strike...
Originally posted by Avalonofthewindso that's a "no"
The confrontation WAS physical, Asmodel didn't use any of his powers on Supes... and Grant Morrison planned of using regular Superman, DC MADE him use Energy Supes. So it's perfectly legit either way...
Originally posted by AvalonofthewindI don't need a way around anything here as it's irrelivant.. and No he wouldn't... 🤨 goku is already more powerful than any angel, god, or outwordly being by the time that the buu saga starts..
Where did it say that you have to be pure to not be burned? That was the for the light of heaven attack, not for anything else. WW was considered pure and a magical being at the time and she was burning... Goku would be dead had he tried to wrestle Asmodel. Sorry dude, no way around that....
Originally posted by Avalonofthewindlike supes is without plot devices?
I guess now Goku is immune to matter manipulation, right? SS, GL,
Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
Physical confrontations that trump Goku in power. Physically, or at full power, Goku is dead. I like how your new "argument" is "they should only fight physically!!!" lol You do know Dominus has a physical body that doesn't get tired and can fight indefinitely, right?
oh sorry I didn't know that they had enough power to level solar systems.. my mistake.. 🙄
it's not a new argument.. this whole thread is based on a FIGHT.. if you're going to bring up other characters as a standard of reference then they too should be subjected to the same conditions as this FIGHT. if they're not then they can't be used as examples... and it's not MY arguement, it's what YOU said.. need I go back and quote you on this?
you know that doesn't mean a god damned thing right? you know that garlic jr. has the same gimmick going for him right? you know that he's on the bottom of the DBZ food chain right?
Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
The sad part is that YOU are serious with the crap you're spewing... you're guy can't even breathe in space, and would burn his tongue drinking hot coffee, yet
ki (which isn't even a weakness for supes... an takes forever to charge up) is supposed to make up for the difference in power...
when he's already far more powerful than supes without taking time to power up... yeah... easily...
goku doesn't need to breath in space to beat superman... 😕 If supes has to take that loophole to force goku into BFR than he's copping out and proving he can't win... and again.. the sayians make up only a small PORTION of the entire DBZ cast.. a NUMBER of characters can breath in space just fine.
what's sad is all the evidence you're just straight up ignoring.. or manipulating to make superman somehow look more powerful than he already is.
Originally posted by Avalonofthewindthere's nothing convinient about it.... my scanners been shot for some time now.. otherwise our respect DD thread would be a lot more.... respectable...
You're scanners a conviniently down when I offer YOU a simple scan by scan feat comparison... nice....lol
Originally posted by AvalonofthewindBRUTE physical strength is honestly the only area that supes can compate in and win... he doesn't come CLOSE to goku in speed, fighting ability, power, durability etc etc... it's simplistic logic.. in a straight up fight, if supes can take them so can goku.
Even with your attempt to power them down, the characters I've named trump Goku. I like how you are trying the "If superman wins, then goku can too!" when it's been shown Goku is far weaker than Supes in SO many areas.
Originally posted by Avalonofthewindit would be if your keyboard ws 5 lightyears away...
"instantaneous movement" that doesn't even make sense...lol if you moved your finger to type, that's instantaneous movement. Not very impressive, is it?
Originally posted by Avalonofthewindteleportation and I.T. are not the same thing no matter how many times you TRY to pretend that they are...
Nightcrawler teleports, he must be faster than Goku if he doesn't use IT then!
Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
So mental was the battlefield that the whole world was watching the battle on tv? That Supes and Dominus were battling changing reality back and forth?
Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
Talking about that...let's see...Superman did break the time/space barrier with his punches when fighting his E2 self, and has countless feats of ridiculous strength and speed to match.
both buu and gotenks have ripped through demensional barriers using a scream.... still not impressive to the DB crew.
Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
Because there aren't ANY PLOT DEVICES IN DBZ...nope, everyone loves to wait around while other characters charge... you know...like when Goku slowwwwwwwly charged up after getting his ass beat by the androids...
what are you even talking about here? 😐
having help from a scientist who built you something, or from motherbox, or from members dominus' race are plot devices that help supes compete with these people.
when goku took it to vegeta.. it was as simple as goku/vegeta
when goku took it to frieza it was as simple as goku/frieza
when goku took it to cell.. and so on and so fourth.
Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
BAD ANALOGY. Solar calculators get power from the sun too, guess what happens if you tossed one into the sun?
BAD ANALOGY... solar calculators don't get stronger, faster, more durable from contact with the sun either do they?
Originally posted by Avalonofthewindthe notion that you even THINK heat vision is on the same level as DBZ blasts almost makes this not worth replying to.. supes is sooooo heavily outgunned in this fight when it comes to energy projection it's not even funny. hell he's had trouble melting warheads that were built to stand up to the heat of re-entry.. but he's gonna do something to goku? riiiiiiight.
Supes vision is hotter than the sun anyway...Goku would be dead if Supes turned up the heat.
Originally posted by Avalonofthewindphysically alone? powered up or not? if he's powered up he can EASILY survive that shit..
The point is Goku can't survive half the crap Supes has been through physically alone.
Originally posted by Avalonofthewindyou're not telling me anything I don't already know... you need to read what I'm actually writing instead of just replying to what you THINK it is I said...
Continued...The first time they killed each other in PHYSICAL BATTLE....the DD you highly regard took EFFORT to take down Superman. In fact, he died as well.
I said supes has never had a decisive physical win over DD.. he hasn't... the one time he came close he died... but it wasn't a win... it was a double KO for all intents and purposes.. you said supes beat him twice... okay then.. WHEN? yeah, that's a retorical question since superman never has.
Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
You admitted that DD can beat Goku but Supes can't?
Originally posted by Avalonofthewindand was STILL getting batted around after being powered up by motherbox... and THEN AGAIN during doomsday wars?.... yeah....
The Superman who's been upgraded a ton since that fight and has a ton of powers at his disposal?
Originally posted by Avalonofthewindit didn't have to say that in the issue.. it's what happened in the story... 😕
Even your "DD Rex" would trump Goku... he's still on the same power levels. Nowhere in the issue does it say that it's a clone...
see.. how are you even gonna bring up character examples if you know nothing about the characters you're attempting to represent?... 😬
doomsday got vaporized by imperiex while saving superman's ass... the damage was beyond even doomsday's regenerative capabilities.. lex corp got the bones and ash and basically cloned DD into DD rex.. an inherently weaker version of his former self...
Originally posted by Avalonofthewindit's not a nice try... it's what happened.... 😐
Nice try.
Originally posted by Avalonofthewindhow is this relivant?
Since you read 175, you know that same DD was sent to apokalips, later escapes and was the Gog wars DD.
look.. in the one shot "apokalips now" doomsday is degenerated into primordial ooze... somehow his regenerative abilities were able to compensate for it this time, but in doing so it gave him the glory of his former physical manifestation... the lex corp-induced clone body was flawed.. the one that got off apokalips wasn't the lex corp "version"... that much is obvious... as for the DD that showed up in IC 7 he's DD rex all over again... and nobody knows where he came from.. damn villains united..
Originally posted by Avalonofthewindyep, you're just ignoring every argument you don't like aren't cha?
So far we've seen, Superman is faster. Goku isn't as durable, or anywhere near as strong. His best chance is a planet destroying attack that would take forever to charge up and that Superman could easily dodge or HV away.
too bad goku is 180,000 times faster than light speed...
too bad goku survives planet busters and come back for more
too bad vegeta's trained in 400 x earth's gravity and that wasn't even in SS mode...
too bad frieza made a planet buster in 5 seconds using less than 1% of his power, vegeta wiped out a planet with a regular blast, and again with the wave of his hand, and brolly exterminated a galaxy in an instant... too bad all your arguments for supes revolve around some sort of loophole or extrenuating circumstances.. too bad in any given fight between a DBZer past the saiyan saga and superman, supes gets his ass handed to him.
Originally posted by Avalonofthewind😂 whatever you say captain copout. 😱
Going by facts... Goku is dead before any sweat has hit his jawline.
He simply doesn't compare. The cold hard facts... Goku is low GL level without any of the GL versatility. Bye bye goku!
Originally posted by The Unknown
I already did disprove that.
no you didn't.. all you did was make up some falicious B.S. about him dodging the aim of piccolo.. and then you brought up low end feats... neither of which disproved anything...
Originally posted by The Unknownit WAS a black hole...
It may have eventually turned into a true black hole, but what is shown in the series and movie isn't one.
Originally posted by jinzin
who's complaining... you said physical matchup.... that's a fight... babadi could beat superman with a spell, gynu could easily use his bodyswitch on supes, goku by the end of GT could simply wish superman out of existence... but that's not a fight which is what I thought we were discussing here.and ki blasts are very physical they may LOOK transparent but they're completely physical weapons.. just ask planet vegeta. physical matchup implies a fight... and in a fight DBZ fighters kick the shit out of these guys...
Wish superman out of existence...hmmm... omega beams..erase people...out..of..existence... Gods...dissapeared without a trace... even an avatar of death doesn't know what happens to you... hmmm
By your description, all the characters powers that I've described are physical. Goku would get rocked by any of them either way.
Originally posted by jinzin
or rather, your desperation is apparent every time you're caught changing the subject to save your ass.
No desperation here except the one you're apparently trying to pull for a low gl character. My subject has been the same, physically or at full strength... keep playing twisty word. It doesnt help your cause.
Originally posted by jinzin
no he's not superman he's far more durable than supes could ever hope to be. 😂 if batman with a motherbox is sitting there taking darksieds assault..... and you're trying to tell me darksied would beat a guy who's more durable than him, faster, more powerful and a better fighter?.... HA!🤨
goku doesn't get hurt by mountains.. he gets hurt by the energy that sent him into one.. pfffft....
yes the guy who had a problem lifting a building on one occasion, but has EASILY lifted pyramids with his mind WHILE in a WEAKENED STATE and is capible of destroying solar systems at a whim would EASILY fight moon boy....and beat him.
RIGHT! LOL... Goku has shown nothing in Superman's league regarding strength, speed, or durability, and you sure haven't proved it. Moonboy KO's Low class GL without much effort.
Nice way to ignores all of Darkies canon high feats....Goku is far below his class anyway.
Originally posted by jinzin
so that's a "no"
irrelivant... only legit for a supes blue thread.. supes blue isn't here is he?I don't need a way around anything here as it's irrelivant.. and No he wouldn't... 🤨 goku is already more powerful than any angel, god, or outwordly being by the time that the buu saga starts..
LOL, this is just too funny. I've sure seen him get his ass kicked many a time...and never seen him pull feats like Supes.
My Asmodel example is perfectly legit. I also like how you want to use any version of GOKU but want to limit Supes to what you want. "Dragon Goku" lol
Kismet Supes, Superman Prime... we can play this all day...
T-vo...Goku wishes himself dead. Done deal. 🙂
Originally posted by jinzin
like supes is without plot devices?
You mean like when Goku needed earths energy, and to be restored by the dragon just to defeat buu? When Vegeta was distracting him for ages while Goku tried to charge that fireball...nope...no plot device there...
Originally posted by jinzin
oh sorry I didn't know that they had enough power to level solar systems.. my mistake.. 🙄it's not a new argument.. this whole thread is based on a FIGHT.. if you're going to bring up other characters as a standard of reference then they too should be subjected to the same conditions as this FIGHT. if they're not then they can't be used as examples... and it's not MY arguement, it's what YOU said.. need I go back and quote you on this?
you know that doesn't mean a god damned thing right? you know that garlic jr. has the same gimmick going for him right? you know that he's on the bottom of the DBZ food chain right?
Let me know when they can contain the big bang, or fight beings near eternity level which that dragon surely isn't... Nobody in DBZ is destroying solar systems with blasts... Vegeta expelled all his energy and left a simple crater...
If we go by fights...then you already lost with the DOS DD example. Nuff said...
Originally posted by jinzin
when he's already far more powerful than supes without taking time to power up... yeah... easily...goku doesn't need to breath in space to beat superman... 😕 If supes has to take that loophole to force goku into BFR than he's copping out and proving he can't win... and again.. the sayians make up only a small PORTION of the entire DBZ cast.. a NUMBER of characters can breath in space just fine.
what's sad is all the evidence you're just straight up ignoring.. or manipulating to make superman somehow look more powerful than he already is.
So Superman using his abilities to win is a loophole? Damn this is getting sad... You're the one claiming ki blasts leveling solar systems...but admit that Goku runnig out of air is a loophole...lol Desperate dude...
I've gone over plenty of ways GOKU would lose, it's YOU ignoring it, not me...
[QUOTE=6971912]Originally posted by jinzin
[B]
there's nothing convinient about it.... my scanners been shot for some time now.. otherwise our respect DD thread would be a lot more.... respectable...BRUTE physical strength is honestly the only area that supes can compate in and win... he doesn't come CLOSE to goku in speed, fighting ability, power, durability etc etc... it's simplistic logic.. in a straight up fight, if supes can take them so can goku.
Except Goku is NOWHERE near Supes physically...but FAR below it. By that logic of yours, since Goku is "stronger" that gods, angels, demons etc...then Superman runs the DBZ universe...
Goku doesn't compare at all in strength, speed, durability, etc... Physically, you already admitted DOS Doomsday beats GOKU. Byrne Supes equalled him... so you admitted defeat.... and the sad part is that Supes if way way powered up since then.
Goku loses...
Originally posted by jinzin
it would be if your keyboard ws 5 lightyears away...
You typed this up without issue... your hand moved instantly...pfft..
Originally posted by jinzin
teleportation and I.T. are not the same thing no matter how many times you TRY to pretend that they are...
They aren't "light speed" either no matter how hard you try and pretend they are... Neither are they as durable, fast, or strong.
Originally posted by jinzin
plot devices anyone?
Tons of them in DBZ...but oh well. Dragon! Grant me strength to win a fight!
Wait! Let me charge!!!
Originally posted by jinzin
both buu and gotenks have ripped through demensional barriers using a scream.... still not impressive to the DB crew.
Dominus and Queen of Fables create realities on a whim. Superman went blow for blow with a precrisis version of himself shattering time and space.
Boo's scream wasn't impressive comparing to any of it. Nice try though.
Originally posted by jinzin
what are you even talking about here? 😐having help from a scientist who built you something, or from motherbox, or from members dominus' race are plot devices that help supes compete with these people.
when goku took it to vegeta.. it was as simple as goku/vegeta
when goku took it to frieza it was as simple as goku/frieza
when goku took it to cell.. and so on and so fourth.
Yes, tons of charging, and nothing on Supes level. Dominus people weren't involved in any of their fights, were they? Supes and Dominus went at it alone... Dominus nearly killed Kismet which is the basic fabric of reality.
Once again, trying to warp the facts. tsk tsk Jinzin.
Originally posted by jinzin
BAD ANALOGY... solar calculators don't get stronger, faster, more durable from contact with the sun either do they?
Once again, BAD ANALOGY, your comment involved being powered by the sun... now you are talking about durability. He has the durability to survive in the sun and it's massive heat and gravity...the longer he's in it...the stronger and more invulnerable he gets...
We can go the opposite way with the double black hole, or the tesseract attack that easily destroys planets... no sunlight in either.
Goku dies either way.
Originally posted by jinzin
the notion that you even THINK heat vision is on the same level as DBZ blasts almost makes this not worth replying to.. supes is sooooo heavily outgunned in this fight when it comes to energy projection it's not even funny. hell he's had trouble melting warheads that were built to stand up to the heat of re-entry.. but he's gonna do something to goku? riiiiiiight.
HV is incalculable. Feel free to show me a scan of Goku chillin in the sun. Once again, Goku has been hurt by rocks and is scared of needles...
The fact that you think fireballs compare is laughable. Supes could roast him with a look.
Originally posted by jinzin
physically alone? powered up or not? if he's powered up he can EASILY survive that shit..
Right... the same characters who have to avoid swords...lol I'm sure you have no proof of it either...
Originally posted by jinzin
you're not telling me anything I don't already know... you need to read what I'm actually writing instead of just replying to what you THINK it is I said...I said supes has never had a decisive physical win over DD.. he hasn't... the one time he came close he died... but it wasn't a win... it was a double KO for all intents and purposes.. you said supes beat him twice... okay then.. WHEN? yeah, that's a retorical question since superman never has.
DD would kill supes too.... how is this hard to understand?
Take time to re-read both your posts and mine. YOU admitted that DOS Doomsday could beat GOKU. This same Doomsday stalemeated with Supes on a physical level. DD or Supes >>>Goku
Simple. I'm sure you understand it...
Originally posted by jinzin
and was STILL getting batted around after being powered up by motherbox... and THEN AGAIN during doomsday wars?.... yeah....
That DD was made near unbeatable. I have no problem with him beating most characters... Including both Supes and Goku.
Originally posted by jinzin
it didn't have to say that in the issue.. it's what happened in the story... 😕see.. how are you even gonna bring up character examples if you know nothing about the characters you're attempting to represent?... 😬
So your word > what wasn't stated in the comic. We'll get more to this later..
Originally posted by jinzin
doomsday got vaporized by imperiex while saving superman's ass... the damage was beyond even doomsday's regenerative capabilities.. lex corp got the bones and ash and basically cloned DD into DD rex.. an inherently weaker version of his former self...it's not a nice try... it's what happened.... 😐
how is this relivant?
Partly right...his remains were taken to Lex...says nothing of cloning...
Originally posted by jinzin
look.. in the one shot "apokalips now" doomsday is degenerated into primordial ooze... somehow his regenerative abilities were able to compensate for it this time, but in doing so it gave him the glory of his former physical manifestation... the lex corp-induced clone body was flawed.. the one that got off apokalips wasn't the lex corp "version"... that much is obvious... as for the DD that showed up in IC 7 he's DD rex all over again... and nobody knows where he came from.. damn villains united..
AND BINGO... DD can regenerate from Primordial OOZE, but NOT FROM BONES? Plus, once again the fact that the comic says NOTHING of cloning.
Nice try.
Originally posted by jinzin
yep, you're just ignoring every argument you don't like aren't cha?too bad goku is 180,000 times faster than light speed...
too bad goku survives planet busters and come back for more
too bad vegeta's trained in 400 x earth's gravity and that wasn't even in SS mode...
too bad frieza made a planet buster in 5 seconds using less than 1% of his power, vegeta wiped out a planet with a regular blast, and again with the wave of his hand, and brolly exterminated a galaxy in an instant... too bad all your arguments for supes revolve around some sort of loophole or extrenuating circumstances.. too bad in any given fight between a DBZer past the saiyan saga and superman, supes gets his ass handed to him.
😂 whatever you say captain copout. 😱
Not only do you like ignoring what you don't like, you make stuff up and misrepresent also... Too bad your arguments revolve around trying to manipulate facts and have no on panel proof.
Supes has beaten a near eternity level being.
Wrestled a being powerful enough to overthrow heaven itself.
Stalemated a version of himself that punched out a multiversal destroyer.
Has fought and travelled far faster than light (no teleporting)
Survives planet busters and comes back for more.
Has punched and shattered time and space.
Has repaired time and space physically.
Has absorbed a galaxy destroying weapon on his own.
Has survived double black holes, the sun, etc...
Any time you want to go scan for scan...let's go.
I'll get you started...here's a site with lots of DBZ manga...
http://www.nfsupreme.com/hostees/dranet/mangas/index.php?folder=/Dragon%20Ball%20%26%20DBZ%20Manga/
Originally posted by jinzin
no you didn't.. all you did was make up some falicious B.S. about him dodging the aim of piccolo.. and then you brought up low end feats... neither of which disproved anything...
🤨 What does IT have anything to do with Piccolo...?
Originally posted by jinzin
it WAS a black hole...
No... it was a portal to the Dead Zone. Besides, if it can even be considered a black hole, it is a miniature one, meaning nowhere near the power of a true black hole.
this is going nowhere and you're double standards and hypocracy are getting out of control at this point...
hank using his mental powers is a good example of his ability to fight? pffft..
asmodel being a "legit" example? yeah legitimately retarded if you think that superman blue feats are in ANY way applicable to current superman.
omega beams erasing people from existence? even though they failed on hank, supes' face, and doomsday?....
it's just this never ending steam of bull coming from you...
you know as well as I do that superman's strength increases the closer he gets to the sun... it powers him up the closer he gets to it... that's why he opted to fly darksied out there so he could secure an advantage and stop getting his ass beat.
and again.. goku isn't hurt by rocks.. hell dbz characters crush rocks without even touching them.. frieza tried to smash goku with a mountain and goku blasted through it unscathed... it's the energy used to send them into rocks that hurts... as for swords.. it's not about the blade.. it's about the person using it... which is EXACTLY what was displayed during the trunks/king cold debacle...
and your constant reference to doomsday is mind numbingly staggering.... look if doomsday hadn't fought the radiant already... if he lived his entire life up to the point of DOS and fought goku instand of supes and the ONLY part of his life omited was his fight with radiant than goku would win simple as.... but since doomsday HAD fought radiant before DOS goku wouldn't have a way to beat him. Supes had a trump card.. which part of that aren't you following? If doomsday had ever truly been physically challanged by the time he got to earth supes would have lost that fight faster than he did during hunter prey... since no one had up to that point.. well.. supes stood a chance.... it's not admitting defeat to say that dos doomsday would beat goku.. it's common sense... I'd have to ignore LOADS of evidence to state otherwise... that doesn't mean that superman can beat him however because superman isn't totally invulnerable to enegy attacks like dd is...
what's really laughable here is that you THINK the attacks being used are something as simplistic as "fireballs", it just goes to show just how little you know what you're talking about.
I'd ask you to start your argument from scratch but the bias that you've come up with in this thread is outstanding.. heat vision on the same level as KI blasts? you've gotta be joking!
BTW: PS supes vs. dragon goku, and goku STILL WINS... all goku needs to do is grant himself immortality, and superman's powers (IF he needed them).... bye bye supes.. 🙄