^hehe, as i said, dont get ur hopes up. i "currently" choose to not do it because i still posess the capability to reason and see sumwhat logically. if and when i enter a phase where i can not reason and things get too much , i probably wud run to the neares window just to finish the pain. different people have different threshholds and most suicidals are very lonely, so you wont really see them coming on forums and casually talking about it like i am{who is currently not planning on killing myself}.
i say it because i have expirience, and have been in really odd phases in my life where the only think that seemed to matter was getting out of torurous situations. looking back at them, i can see how irrational and dangerous my mindset was and how it was totally lacking in anything which wud give me a rational CHOICE. same with lotsa other people. it is only a choice in sum technical terms, not really for a lot of people who do it.
Originally posted by leonheartmm
^no, those are only two options. what if i want neither, what then? is it still the choice i want to make. furthermore, taking away of rational thinking also stops you from CHOOSING , and forces you to act in one way which u wudnt if you actually had the peace of mind to choose.
A third choice in either commiting suicide or not committing suicide? What do you propose, semi-killing yourself?
Either way, it's still a choice, whatever that 3rd (or greater) choice may be.
Originally posted by leonheartmmIt's still a choice.
^no, those are only two options. what if i want neither, what then? is it still the choice i want to make. furthermore, taking away of rational thinking also stops you from CHOOSING , and forces you to act in one way which u wudnt if you actually had the peace of mind to choose.
its only a choice technically. in the sense that their are multiple outcomes and one is CHOSEN. on the other hand, choice is also defined as PREFERENCE, and conciounce desiring. in this sense, "forced" is the opposite of "choice" hence forced choice becomes no choice at all. ur only arguing on semantics
And they're right, as per actual fact.
The choice exists, the circumstances don't take away that choice and force their hand, they choose to pick up the knife/whatever and end their lives. It's still possible for them not to do it in every situation, save one where someone is actually forcing their hand, though that wouldn't be suicide.
Don't get mad at them for getting on you about this, you made a poorly constructed and badly thought out argument and failed miserably in supporting it. You can call it semantics, it's actually just you being wrong on a monumental scale.
Originally posted by leonheartmm
^no, it is semantics. just like the opposite of love can be hate and can also be indifference and the opposite of hate can also be love or indifference. its only a choice in the technical sense, for a great many, there is no choice.
Well, as you've just admitted, they do have a choice, they can simply not do it, there is always help available if they care to put out the effort..
What you're doing here is silly. You're basically admitting that you're wrong (and you are, so ironically, you're right about that), but that you're going to continue to hold onto your wrong ideals despite that.
Originally posted by leonheartmm
"THEY" can NOT. if by THEY u mean conciousness/will, then you are wrong. the body can, just like you CAN win a lottery. but u dont MAKE it happen. its conditions outside yourself. hence it isnt you CHOOSING. it is the variable outside your control which are makign you choose.
They are choosing their actions, no matter what led them to do it it's a choice. Just like choosing to buy a lottery ticket is a choice, if you don't buy one you can't win and if you don't commit suicide you can't die from committing suicide.
Originally posted by leonheartmm
"THEY" can NOT. if by THEY u mean conciousness/will, then you are wrong. the body can, just like you CAN win a lottery. but u dont MAKE it happen. its conditions outside yourself. hence it isnt you CHOOSING. it is the variable outside your control which are makign you choose.
So, what you're saying then, is that committing suicide is like winning the lottery?
Boy, that's the shittiest prize I've ever heard of.
Oh, and that's one of the worst analogies I have ever heard, if I didn't know any better, I'd think you're now venturing into the realm of self-parody.
And they do make it happen. If they kill themselves, they're doing it. They can choose not to do it, it is factually possible for them to not do it. They make the choice. Just because they're in a bad way doesn't take away their personal responsibility.
There may be outside forces or circumstances that are making the person think about it, but they're not taking the choice away.
Originally posted by leonheartmm
^looks like no1 has ever heard the expression "bing PUSHED over the edge" . choice entails preferance. do you actually mean to say that most people in the world who do it do it out of choice as opposed to having run OUT of choices?!?! completely ridiculous.
Yes, they have a choice whether to commit suicide or stay alive. By no means do I think that it's always a bad choice to make, but it's still a choice.