The Joker vs. Spider-man

Started by Sixth_Winged8 pages
OMG. You're not serious, are you? When have any of those guys actually been a MAJOR threat to the ENTIRE world? Smarter, bullsh*t. NONE of those guys are smarter. Joker has outsmarted Slade, Lex Luthor, etc.... Please, you're going to have to do a better job than that. It seems you don't realize what the stipulations of the fight is. Go read the very first post. Kingpin, Morbius, and Norman are smarter.....

You mean like the time when Norman implanted Aunt may with a global threatening virus that needed Reed to operate on her or orchestrated the clone saga with almost infinite number of clones. Yeah.

Joker is smarter? when did he build an something to tip the odds with batman? when did he gave himself superpowers? when did he threatened the world on his own doing, not just some feat like tricking a CIS-riddled 5d imp, when did he do all of this?

Originally posted by Inhuman
All debatable.

No, he IS smarter than all of those guys.

Originally posted by Inhuman
All Joker has going for him is iconic charecter. He would have been dead a long time ago if he wasnt so popular.

Or how about the fact that he is a genius beyond belief? 😉

Originally posted by Inhuman
Joker is my favorite Batman villain BTW. IMO Riddler,penguin,Joker all fall in the same category: Insane types who of normal human strength who have smarts, and hire henchmen and come up with plans to steal $, give bats a hard time, sometimes other things.

If that's all you think about the Joker, than your perception is off more than I thought.

Originally posted by Inhuman
DC had to come up with other villians for bats cause those guys werent cutting it any more(yes I realize there were other villains too like mr. freeze 🙄 )
Thats when killer croc ,bane, clay face, ras aghol(sp?), ect came in.
Anyhow I think You are the one making Joker more dangerous than he is.

What's that got to do with anything? It's the same reason why EVERY comic book hero has multiple villains. If it was just a couple of reoccuring villains, they would get boring. I'm not making Joker more dangerous than he is. He has been a global threat numerous times.

Originally posted by Inhuman
Didnt spidey catch/beat joker real fast in the crossover?

Yeah, cross-overs are noncannonical bullsh*t.

Originally posted by Sixth_Winged
You mean like the time when Norman implanted Aunt may with a global threatening virus that needed Reed to operate on her or orchestrated the clone saga with almost infinite number of clones. Yeah.

Joker is smarter? when did he build an something to tip the odds with batman? when did he gave himself superpowers? when did he threatened the world on his [b]own doing, not just some feat like tricking a CIS-riddled 5d imp, when did he do all of this? [/B]

Joker has had the chance to take over the world numerous times. Not only that, he has also outsmarted Lex Luthor and has beaten Superman, Wonder Woman, Slade, etc. with prep time. There is a reason why people like Ra's Al Guhl and Lex Luthor have wanted to team up with the Joker. They respect his intellect. If you would read more Joker, you would understand what he is about more. Besides, you are making it seem like this is a one on one mono y mono h2h fight or something. Check the stipulations I posted on the first page.

The Joker is just a plain psycho with a clown motiff. Him being smarter than Ra's Al Ghul or Luthor doesnt make sense. Him being more dangerous than Ra's Al Ghul or Luthor doesnt make sense. Him owning the League and jokerizing aliens and magical beings doesnt make sense. Him getting all this ridiculous, random power-ups doesnt make sense.

Him being pimped to be incredibly smart and dangerous to sell comics not just for Batman-related titles but for the rest of DCU because he is the most popular DC villain, now THIS MAKE SENSE.

Spider-man would beat him.

Joker got power-ups?

Originally posted by jrodslam
Joker got power-ups?

Referring to 5-D imps power.

Originally posted by Templares
The Joker is just a plain psycho with a clown motiff. Him being smarter than Ra's Al Ghul or Luthor doesnt make sense. Him being more dangerous than Ra's Al Ghul or Luthor doesnt make sense. Him owning the League and jokerizing aliens and magical beings doesnt make sense. Him getting all this ridiculous, random power-ups doesnt make sense.

Him being pimped to be incredibly smart and dangerous to sell comics not just for Batman-related titles but for the rest of DCU because he is the most popular DC villain, now THIS MAKE SENSE.

Spider-man would beat him.

Edit. 😆

Originally posted by Templares
Referring to 5-D imps power.

You mentioned hes a "plain psycho with a clown motiff". Joker was highly intelligent before the clown ordeal. Its not like hes a dummy that cracks jokes all the time. Hes a genius that cracks jokes all the time. Why doesnt it make sense that he may be smarter and more dangerous than Luthor and Ras?

Originally posted by jrodslam
You mentioned hes a "plain psycho with a clown motiff". Joker was highly intelligent before the clown ordeal. Its not like hes a dummy that cracks jokes all the time. Hes a genius that cracks jokes all the time. Why doesnt it make sense that he may be smarter and more dangerous than Luthor and Ras?

The Joker has a definitive past? 😕 Where?

Basing on the Killing Joke, the Joker is just a plain chemical engineer. Sure he's smart but smarter than Ra's or Luthor, hell no. He doesnt posses any superpowers but unlike Luthor or Ra's, he doesnt have the resources to be a serious threat to anyone above street levels.

Originally posted by Templares
The Joker has a definitive past? 😕 Where?

Basing on the Killing Joke, the Joker is just a plain chemical engineer. Sure he's smart but smarter than Ra's or Luthor, hell no. He doesnt posses any superpowers but unlike Luthor or Ra's, he doesnt have the resources to be a serious threat to anyone above street levels.

He does and he has. ✅

Originally posted by batdude123
He does and he has. ✅

Whats the title of this definitive Joker origin?

Originally posted by Templares
Whats the title of this definitive Joker origin?

Ask jrod, I wasn't even talking about his "definitive origin."

Originally posted by Templares
The Joker has a definitive past? 😕 Where?

Basing on the Killing Joke, the Joker is just a plain chemical engineer. Sure he's smart but smarter than Ra's or Luthor, hell no. He doesnt posses any superpowers but unlike Luthor or Ra's, he doesnt have the resources to be a serious threat to anyone above street levels.

I disagree. Joker is not only a expert chemical engineer, hes also a master strategist, master thief and deadly combatant as well. Ras was surprised by Jokers intelligence after he beat him in a game of chess. Hes also outsmarted/tricked Luthor. You mention that Joker doesnt have the resourses to be a serious threat to anyone above street level? If he knows someone else has the resourses, hed take it and use it for his own doing. Hes used a mind control device to put members of the League to fight against each other. Now its not HIM thats the threat exactly, but hes the one who caused it. Hes posed a threat to super beings such as Aquaman, MM and others. He killed the Royal Flush gang. Hes even outsmarted Deathstroke. Joker can be a threat to anyone if given proper time and prep.

Originally posted by Templares
Whats the title of this definitive Joker origin?

Some read "The Killing Joke" and some read "The Man who Laughs".

Before Joker went into the chemicals, he was a failed stand up comedian, but its not OFFICIALLY known if he was already a genius. However, he did agree to lead the group of mobsters that led to his chemical transformation. Some speculate that Joker was already a criminal mastermind or at least on the way to it. Most speculate that the chemicals made him insane and that triggered his twisted comedic personality.

From "The Killing Joke", The Joker himself says that the story he tells may not be his "real" origin. He says, "Sometimes I remember it one way, sometimes another. If I’m going to have a past, I prefer it to be multiple choice."

I guess its my assumption that he was already intelligent before the clown gettup.

Originally posted by jrodslam
I disagree. Joker is not only a expert chemical engineer, hes also a master strategist, master thief and deadly combatant as well. Ras was surprised by Jokers intelligence after he beat him in a game of chess. Hes also outsmarted/tricked Luthor. You mention that Joker doesnt have the resourses to be a serious threat to anyone above street level? If he knows someone else has the resourses, hed take it and use it for his own doing. Hes used a mind control device to put members of the League to fight against each other. Now its not HIM thats the threat exactly, but hes the one who caused it. Hes posed a threat to super beings such as Aquaman, MM and others. He killed the Royal Flush gang. Hes even outsmarted Deathstroke. Joker can be a threat to anyone if given proper time and prep.

First off, anyone, from your average thug to a Cosmic Abstract could beat anybody with enough prep time. Its a given.

Second, Outsmarting Lex, Joker's Last Laugh .... these Joker feats are all HOLLOW feats because there is nothing in Joker's background history that would suggest that he is capable of such feats. This is why these feats are all chalked up to as PIS and why not? For the better part of his history, the Joker has only been a street level villain, all of a sudden, likely because of some editorial decision to boost sales, he's written as a League -level threat? WTF? I guess Rupert Thorne or Oswald Cobblepot are League-level villains too.

I guess its my assumption that he was already intelligent before the clown gettup.

If only DC would give the Joker a definitive origin like maybe before he became a psycho he was this brilliant academic student, then these Joker feats would have been legitimate. Hell, its much more believable that a scientist/businessman with enhanced physical stats like Norman Osborne would be JLA-level threat. And as a plus, he's f*ck crazy too.

Originally posted by Templares
First off, anyone, from your average thug to a Cosmic Abstract could beat anybody with enough prep time. Its a given.

This fight has Joker with prep and a few were mentioning that hes a very high treat with it. Its part of the debate.

Originally posted by Templares
Second, Outsmarting Lex, Joker's Last Laugh .... these Joker feats are all HOLLOW feats because there is nothing in Joker's background history that would suggest that he is capable of such feats. This is why these feats are all chalked up to as PIS and why not? For the better part of his history, the Joker has only been a street level villain, all of a sudden, likely because of some editorial decision to boost sales, he's written as a League -level threat? WTF? I guess Rupert Thorne or Oswald Cobblepot are League-level villains too.

Joker was a chemical engineer before quitting to do the comedy thing, so hed have to contain higher than average intelligence to do so. Id count that as something. Joker was/is only considered "street-level" due to his physical status. However his intellect isnt classified as "stree-level". Who labels these feats as PIS?

Originally posted by jrodslam
This fight has Joker with prep and a few were mentioning that hes a very high treat with it. Its part of the debate.

Joker was a chemical engineer before quitting to do the comedy thing, so hed have to contain higher than average intelligence to do so. Id count that as something. Joker was/is only considered "street-level" due to his physical status. However his intellect isnt classified as "stree-level". Who labels these feats as PIS?

Chemical engineer is NOT EQUAL to higher than average intelligence. The Joker has to have something from his past prior of becoming as the Joker, that would substantiate his claim of having higher than average intelligence.

Originally posted by Templares
Chemical engineer is NOT EQUAL to higher than average intelligence. The Joker has to have something from his past prior of becoming as the Joker, that would substantiate his claim of having higher than average intelligence.

All engineers employ mathematics, physics, and the engineering art to overcome technical problems in a safe and economical fashion. Yet, it is the chemical engineer alone that draws upon the vast and powerful science of chemistry to solve a wide range of problems. The strong technical and social ties that bind chemistry and chemical engineering are unique in the fields of science and technology. This marriage between chemists and chemical engineers has been beneficial to both sides and has rightfully brought the envy of the other engineering fields.

The breadth of scientific and technical knowledge inherent in the profession has caused some to describe the chemical engineer as the "universal engineer." Yes, you are hearing me correctly; despite a title that suggests a profession composed of narrow specialists, chemical engineers are actually extremely versatile and able to handle a wide range of technical problems.

You think somoene can be a chemical engineer with only a high school diploma? It probably takes more than 2 years of college to even be considered for the position.

Yeah but it doesnt make him any special, let alone smarter or more dangerous than someone like Lex Luthor who know multiple fields of science and was hailed as genius even as a teen.

Originally posted by Templares
Yeah but it doesnt make him any special, let alone smarter or more dangerous than someone like Lex Luthor who know multiple fields of science and was hailed as genius even as a teen.

Why can't you understand that the Joker is smart as hell? He has outsmarted Slade, Lex Luthor, etc. before.