Anyone saying Joker will win is a fool. Spiderman faces many traps, plots, etc...daily with no problems. Spiderman's spider sense gives him a big up on this one.
Also Spiderman figures out how to escape from traps and plots he is unaware of all the time, what makes you think he wouldn't be able to escape from something the Joker set's up?
Spiderman OBVIOUSLY wins
Originally posted by Mider
its PIS why cause you say so? its not PIS when the guy demonstates genious level over and over and over and over did spiderman demonstrage climbing up walls before he got bitten by a spider, joker was a totally diffrent person after he went insane its not PIS its just that he became diffrent and more smart its known to happen if you apply yourself you know he's nuts who the hell can be that nuts in just one night yet he did become that crazy its not PIS sorry he'd done stuff like that MANY MANY MANY MANY MANY times its not pis
Basically youre arguing that the Joker is "smart as hell" because he OUTSMARTED Luthor or Ra's, or [Insert another genius-villain here] and at the same time you guys are claiming that Joker OUTSMARTING Luthor or Ra's, or [Insert another genius-villain here] is not PIS because what? . . . . the Joker is "smart as hell".
Again this is circular reasoning and its wrong.
PIS is PIS if its foundation is PIS. No matter how many times it happened.
Take a look at the Flash. He gets hit, tripped, stabbed by people who are basically moving in slow motion to him. Its PIS and it happens ALL the time but it doesnt affect the Flash's battle effectiveness, especially in a Debate. Why? Because we know that for the sake of the story, the Flash has to be dumbed down (PIS). Besides his origins and his fights with speedsters tell a different story.
Joker outsmarting Luthor is a PIS feat youre trying to back up by another PIS feat in the form of the Joker outsmarting Ra's Al Ghul.
Which is why im asking for some background proof that the Joker is indeed some genius-level intellect that could outsmart and scare a certified genius like Luthor. The fact that DC refuses to give a definitive background history on the Joker certainly doesnt help his case. All we have about his background is that he's a crazy, street smart gangster but certainly nothing on the level of Luthor's intellect or Ra's. Hell, wasnt Luthor the king of failsafe's for the longest time. Luthor JOBBED to the Joker as do Ra's and [Insert another genius-villain here].
And oh, Spider-man was bitten by a radioactive spider (or magically possesed by a spider totem) which is a perfectly logical comicbook explanation as to why he can climb walls. If the Joker had acquired his supposedly "genius-level intellect" through a radioactive bug or some other powerups, we wouldnt be having this conversation.
Originally posted by Templares
Basically youre arguing that the Joker is "smart as hell" because he OUTSMARTED Luthor or Ra's, or [Insert another genius-villain here] and at the same time you guys are claiming that Joker OUTSMARTING Luthor or Ra's, or [Insert another genius-villain here] is not PIS because what? . . . . the Joker is "smart as hell".Again this is circular reasoning and its wrong.
PIS is PIS if its foundation is PIS. No matter how many times it happened.
Take a look at the Flash. He gets hit, tripped, stabbed by people who are basically moving in slow motion to him. Its PIS and it happens ALL the time but it doesnt affect the Flash's battle effectiveness, especially in a Debate. Why? Because we know that for the sake of the story, the Flash has to be dumbed down (PIS). Besides his origins and his fights with speedsters tell a different story.
Joker outsmarting Luthor is a PIS feat youre trying to back up by another PIS feat in the form of the Joker outsmarting Ra's Al Ghul.
Which is why im asking for some background proof that the Joker is indeed some genius-level intellect that could outsmart and scare a certified genius like Luthor. The fact that DC refuses to give a definitive background history on the Joker certainly doesnt help his case. All we have about his background is that he's a crazy, street smart gangster but certainly nothing on the level of Luthor's intellect or Ra's. Hell, wasnt Luthor the king of failsafe's for the longest time. [B]Luthor JOBBED to the Joker
as do Ra's and [Insert another genius-villain here].And oh, Spider-man was bitten by a radioactive spider (or magically possesed by a spider totem) which is a perfectly logical comicbook explanation as to why he can climb walls. If the Joker had acquired his supposedly "genius-level intellect" through a radioactive bug or some other powerups, we wouldnt be having this conversation. [/B]
If, in comics, certain characters act in a more or less consistent and consequent way (Joker is always cunning, sometimes even brilliant), I don't see why he can not be considered as a genius ? There's no reason to rule him out.
The fact we don't know enough about his past doesn't matter. I don't see the connection between an unknown past and the Joker being dumb or smart. Joker is smart and cunning, and has always been that way.
No PIS or CIS here.
Originally posted by who?-kid
I disagree. I don't like the Joker - yeah he's crazy we all get the picture - but I have no problem admitting he's a genius in his own way.If, in comics, certain characters act in a more or less consistent and consequent way (Joker is always cunning, sometimes even brilliant), I don't see why he can not be considered as a genius ? There's no reason to rule him out.
The fact we don't know enough about his past doesn't matter. I don't see the connection between an unknown past and the Joker being dumb or smart. Joker is smart and cunning, and has always been that way.
No PIS or CIS here.
Yeah, Joker is smart and cunning but smart enough to outsmart and freak out Mr. Failsafe Luthor, hell no. Luthor JOBBED simple as that.
captain america hanging with thor is PIS, odin throwing infinity out of his realm is PIS, sorry pal it doesnt count as pis if it happens ALOT of times we all agree on that mostly i think, if captain america was beating thor every other issue we'd be like wow this guy's one tough monkey but if he does it only once then its like whatttttttttttt, but joker has done his feats more then once, and its not considered PIS sorry.
This all depends on how the Joker is doing this trap. If he's been working on it for 5 days then unleashes a...oh I don't know a...erm ok just a big bomb or something (yeah I have no imagination) with absoloutly no warning that he was even up to something, Spider-man isn't going to be able to stop him because well he just dosen't know that Joker is doing anything and would be caught completley unaware.
However if Joker decides to brag and give a hero (in this case Spider-man) a day to find his bomb Spider-man can easily stop it, by swinging around the city he can use his Spider-Sense to home in on the "bomb" and deactivate it or whatever (yes Spider-man has defused a bomb before) and perhaps catch Joker himself if there is any clue of where the Joker is, and there isn't alot of chance of any traps the Joker has set to stop Spider-man because of his Spider-Sense. And even if the Joker has studied Spidey he can't beat him head to head because unlike say Superman, Spidey has no weakness to exploit.
Basicly it all depends on how Joker decides to unleash his plan if he dosen't annonce it then Joker 10/10 If he does I'd give it to Spider-man 7/10.
i think it has to do with his willingness to accomplish something if he REALLY wants to get something done he will but like when he wants to kill bats well he cant kill him he has had many chances yet has not if he REALLY wanted to get someone like in joker's last laugh those kinda things not as big though would be the results i mean like a real intrecet plot like when he became embassedor or when he kidnaped hush, or the time he killed robin things like that. Jokers last laugh only took him like 30 minutes prep but its cause he REALLY WANTED to leave his mark before he died.
Cap could probably take indirect blasts from a safe distance because he is after all carrying an indestructible shield.
However, no one sane will argue that Cap would beat Thor in a direct confrontation. I dont recall something like this has ever happened and even if it di,d its PIS. More often than not, Caps "feats" against Thor are in the form of verbal "sonning" basically just telling him off.
IIRC, Thor's Godblast melted cap's shield in one particular instance, and from what i hear also dented it with Mjolnir (not sure if both were in-continuity though).
PIS is still PIS if its foundation is based on PIS. No matter how many times it happened.
Well its like all villains big schemes hero's either sccidently come across it before its started or the villain gets braggy and tells them about it so the hero finds them and kicks the stuffing, or something bad happens then a group of heroes take the villain down, realy in these cases when a villain gets so much prep and looses its generaly just a plot device.
Originally posted by Templares
Liked him, REALLY liked him back when he and Batman was streetlevel. BatGOD and especially PIS-Joker pretty much turned me away from the characters. The only good Batman and Joker for me in recent years was Broken City.
Feel kinda the same way. I dont like it when a heros popularity determins his feats.