Originally posted by Razielim
The Kaliburr crystal is canon but the Kyber crystal isn't. . .
Actually The Kaiburr crystal is non-canon at least in Splinter of the Minds Eye its N-Canon, because that whole story was taken out of canon for contradicting stuff in ESB.
If my memory serves me correctly the ONLY canon version of the Kaiburr crystal is in KOTOR II, as an item, though I cant remember what it does.
Originally posted by Escape81
I agree. Though PT Sidious could possibly take him - and DE Sidious would waste him.
Yeah, exactly. People need to be more specific in threads, but oh well.
Originally posted by Escape81
Firstly, this makes no sense. Wars and battles would allow them sufficient environments and situations to practice the Force and use it often. Knowledge could also be gained in wars as well.
Sure, in some instances knowledge is gained. Like the discovery of Battle meditation for example. Yet frequently knowledge is lost. In the battle of Russan, when darth bane declared the "rule of two" i'm almost sure much (or at least some) of the knowledge of the force was lost. Almost like when emperor palpatine destroyed almost all of the jedi's ways during the purge.
Originally posted by Escape81
Secondly, erm . . . did you read "Supershadow"?
whugs supershadow?
Originally posted by Escape81
This also doesn't make sense. Why would the "ancient Sith" have more knowledge about the Force when - much like technology and civilization - the older something gets, the more refined and experienced it gets. It expands.
You can't compare the progression of technology to the knowledge of the force. People are very much willing to progress in terms of technology and civilization, but the knowledge of the force is a religion. Every time somebody tries to make an advancement in it, and perhaps a new way of looking at it they are immediately marked a rebel or rouge. Much like Qui gon.
Originally posted by Escape81
I agree. Though PT Sidious could possibly take him - and DE Sidious would waste him.
Yes. I agree since we basically know nothing about Revan's power.
Firstly, this makes no sense. Wars and battles would allow them sufficient environments and situations to practice the Force and use it often. Knowledge could also be gained in wars as well.
Excuse me, Escape. But the people of Revan's time had seen more wars than the PT people. Same for the guys in the "Jedi vs Sith" era. The point is that the Sith and the Jedi were almost exterminated several times.
The Sith:
- after the first shism
- after the great hyperspace war
- after the last battle of Ruusan
The Jedi:
- Jedi Civil War
- last battle of Ruusan
- Jedi Purge
And for both you have cases when places with much knowledge stored were plundered and destroyed. Korriban, Ziost, Malachor V for the Sith. Ossus, Dantooine and possibly even the temple on Coruscant (somebody says something like this in KotoR 2) for the Jedi. Of course knowledge was lost there - how much ? Well...there was only a limited amount of practioners left after certain actions. I mean...the Great Hyperspace War left one (!) Sith Lord alive, the Jedi Civil War ended with the Exile as only fully trained Jedi left and so on.
There is of course the possibility that knowledge stays within the galaxy and of course new techniques can be invented but it's pretty hard to reinvent or rediscover knowledge that was amassed over 20,000 years in the matter of 1,000 or 4,000 years.
This also doesn't make sense. Why would the "ancient Sith" have more knowledge about the Force when - much like technology and civilization - the older something gets, the more refined and experienced it gets. It expands.
Ah...and here we have a little problem. If you take our own beloved earth as an example: There are scientists that belief (and have proof for this) that people used electricity (for light sources) in the age of the ancient Egypt. They somehow figured out how to build their nice pyramids according to astronomical symetry. Then you have skulls crafted out of rock crystal, thousands of years old, when even todays technology isn't able to reproduce them. Not to mention old Sanskrit texts that descripe something similar to the detonation of nuclear bombs. And of course myths like Atlantis.
The point is that knowledge archieved by a certain culture sometimes is lost because of natural catastrophies, wars or simple cultural decline. The Rakataan (Star Forge, Hyperdrives) are a good example for that stuff inside of the SW universe, same with Centerpoint Station. Technology that people living 20,000 or 100,000s of years later couldn't reproduce. You can even take the Ancient Sith as example. Have a look at Sadow's ship - able to destroy star-systems and cause supernovas and then it took 5,000 years and the most genious guys in the Empire to develop something similar with the Sun Crusher.
If such things can happen in terms of technology, why should that be completely impossible when it comes to force powers or techniques ?
We know that things like the force storm or the "force drain" ability as displayed in KotoR2 were basically "lost" until Bane and later Sidious did show up. We know that a single female Sith Lord on Ambria did destroy all live on the planet. We see knowledge that might have been commonly taught and used in one era being placed on the "black list" in another in the Jedi Order because it didn't fit the philosophy any longer. How many PT Jedi did you see using a "Wall of Light" attack against Dark Jedi Sith...or even stuff like "Moricho" ?
Technically we have a "gap" in knowledge for the Sith between Kun, Ulic, Revan and Malak around 4,000 BBY and the people that started the New Sith Empire in 2,000 BBY with a single Sith holocron stolen from the temple. So Sidious is technically the "heir" of a "Sith culture" that was developed over 2,000 years while people like Sadow and Ragnos came from a "Sith culture" that developed over 2,100 years (at least) or even 20,000 years. That gave them a wider "knowledge base" and of course their lifetime exceeded that of Sidious giving them more time to refine that knowledge.
That of course doesn't matter for Revan as he just gathered the remains of that culture and didn't have much time to refine and train it. Sidious will most likely defeat him in terms of force knowledge and ability. In a saberduell I'd give Revan a decent chance as he was a legendary duellist but if anything goes Sidious will win this.
Actually, Abel G. Pena's new hyperspace article gave a LOT of info on sith history and how things refined throughout the millenia. We learn exactly who and what Adas was for example. That 'single holocron' of Nadd's that went to Bane contained over 28,000 years of knowledge.
Oh, and few Sith lived over two hundred...Simus was an exception and Adas was three hundred when he died
Originally posted by Lightsnake
Actually, Abel G. Pena's new hyperspace article gave a LOT of info on sith history and how things refined throughout the millenia. We learn exactly who and what Adas was for example. That 'single holocron' of Nadd's that went to Bane contained over 28,000 years of knowledge.Oh, and few Sith lived over two hundred...Simus was an exception and Adas was three hundred when he died
Oh my. And some sources mentioned in TOTJ contain 100,000 years of knowledge. The point is: "What sort of knowledge" ? Obviously no force knowledge since they started using that 24,000 years before Bane. Even more obviously: No Sith knowledge as (if you want to cling to the NEC) there were only 6,000 years of Sith lore during that time.
And Adas is a funny dude, yes. The problem I have with the article is that it states that he led the Sith race and defeated the Rakatan - while KotoR states that the Rakatan left the star maps on planets they conquered. Aside of this: If the Sith before the Dark Jedi from the Hundret-Year-Darkness arrived were so strong - strong enough to defeat a race with far higher developed technology due to their force mastery (and this almost 21,000 years before said Jedi arrived) - and they used to worship those Dark Jedi as gods that just speaks for them and their heirs - the ancients Dark Lords - being pretty uber.
Originally posted by Borbarad
Oh my. And some sources mentioned in TOTJ contain 100,000 years of knowledge. The point is: "What sort of knowledge" ? Obviously no force knowledge since they started using that 24,000 years before Bane. Even more obviously: No Sith knowledge as (if you want to cling to the NEC) there were only 6,000 years of Sith lore during that time.And Adas is a funny dude, yes. The problem I have with the article is that it states that he led the Sith race and defeated the Rakatan - while KotoR states that the Rakatan left the star maps on planets they conquered. Aside of this: If the Sith before the Dark Jedi from the Hundret-Year-Darkness arrived were so strong - strong enough to defeat a race with far higher developed technology due to their force mastery (and this almost 21,000 years before said Jedi arrived) - and they used to worship those Dark Jedi as gods that just speaks for them and their heirs - the ancients Dark Lords - being pretty uber.
Except the Dark Jedi were Gods simply because they tricked and killed the Sith king at the time and their bloodlines diluted and watered down the power of the race, even moreso as a result of their ruthless divisions of the caste system.
and the Sith WERE primitive, Adas died defeating the Rakata. And Adas was considered probably the most powerful Dark Lord in the Sith history, leading to his deification
And no force knowledge? Nadd learned from it and gained power from it...te culture of the Sith, even as primitive was built up with the Dark Side before the Dark Jedi even arrived.