Re: Re: Re: Re: Wolverine's claws vs. SKIN!!!!!!
Originally posted by Metalmanx
That other Danger Room sequnce with Emma Frost watching over also doesn't prove your point. Colosuss was mad. He wanted a real fight, with real damage involved. Perhaps he figured Wolverine could cut him. He apparently figured wrong. Yea, Wolvie can create sparks of Colossus's skin, which does imply a VERY SLIGHT, MEANINGLESS amount of damage on C's part.
That is pure speculation on your part. You have no way of knowing what kind of damage the strike did.
Originally posted by Metalmanx
But throughout all the comics, Wolverine has never been able to actually PIERCE Colossus.
Considering Wolverine has actually hit Colossus' armor with his claws once, that's not saying a lot at all. Especially when Claremont says Colossus' armor is no match for the claws. We have one actual event to base the argument on and it swings in Wolverine's favor according to the X-Men God himself.
Originally posted by Metalmanx
And why is Emma on Xavier's level now?
Because in the Ultimate Universe she has very much the same role as Xavier. She is counterpart and alternative to Xavier. She is a powerful telepath who runs her own school and her own super team so she has to know what mutants are capable of. She believes Wolverine is capable of seriously injuring or killing Colossus, even when he is armored.
Originally posted by Metalmanx
Tell me more about this Uncanny Annual #6. I would love to hear exactly how Wolverine managed to "cut" Colossus. Were there just sparks again? That seems to be all that Wolvie can create when trying to attack Colossus. I'd like to know exactly what and how it happened.
Uncanny Annual # 6
The X-Men attempt to attack Dracula. Wolverine falls under Dracula's power. Dracula sends a mindless Wolverine to attack Colossus. Wolverine jumps at Colossus and delivers a backhand swipe with the claws. The picture is not detailed enough to show what happens (which is intentional) and Wolverine's arm blocks most of Colossus' chest. The caption reads:
"...Sarks fly as Wolverine's claws rake Colossus' chest...
...Scoring the organic steel armor - - super strong, but no match for pure adamantium."
No, Wolverine did not rip a massive gaping hole in Colossus' armor, but he did cut the armor and Claremont clearly states that the armor cannot stand up to adamantium claws.
Another important detail is the way Wolverine hits Colossus with the claws. He uses a backhand swipe. Just about every time Wolverine swipes backhanded he has to turn his fist in a very awkward fashion. Why? Because the backside of the claws are not bladed. He turns his wrist when swinging backhanded so that he can hit the enemy with the actual cutting surface of the claws.
Another point is that for a very long time Wolverine's claws did not have a blade. They were pointed metal spikes, meaning the only cutting surface on the claws was the tip. John Byrne stated this somewhere when explaining how he drew the shape of the claws, in comparison to how artists drew the claws in the 1990's. Every time Wolverine slashes in the early years of his existance he was using the tips to penetrate and raw strength to tear out a gouge, not a blade. An excellent example of this is the Danger Room session where Colossus is not living up to his potential. He is struggling with a weight. To force Peter to lift the weight Wolverine drives his claws through the Danger Room controls. The holes the claws leave are not that of a bladed weapon, but a pointed spike. The claws were rounded along the length, not bladed.
In this annual Wolverine is mindless and under Dracula's control. Wolverine does not bother to thrust with the point of the claws, or to turn his wrist for a strike with the underside blade (Which he may or may not have had by this point.) Wolverine simply drags the point of his claws across Colossus' chest. If he can do this by swiping with a point a thrust would have impaled Colossus and a slash would have laid him open.
My final point is Wolverine was never going to be allowed to deliver a major wound to Colossus because Claremont was trying to humanize the character at the time. Putting a gaping wound in Colossus would have been counteractive. And since Annuals still mattered in the ongoing at this point, it would have to be addressed and have consequences in the ongoing. Colossus would have had to remain in armored for for 20 something issues to heal that kind of wound. I.E. the Thing wearing a big metal helmet.
The point was Wolverine damaged Colossus, and Claremont answered the question of wether or not Wolverine could cut him. Being no match means you are getting cut.
Originally posted by Metalmanx
Yea, 616 Colossus is scared of Wolvie's claws. Why?
Because Colossus clearly knows what you cant accept. Wolverine can cut him. There is no reason for Colossus to be afraid unless the claws can cause him serious damage. Colossus never shies away or flinches from any other weapon threat, yet he does become a nervous wreck around adamantium claws. Hell, he's still a nervous wreck after Annual # 6. He's so scared he falls on his ass in an attempt to get away from Wolverine in Uncanny # 194.
How do you just explain away Colossus' fear??? You can't, unless he's retarded or a coward. Is Colossus a mentally disabled coward? No, he's just weary of one of the few things that can hurt him.
Originally posted by Metalmanx
Every, EVERY, single showing between the two has proved Wolvie's claws futile against Colossus's skin.
Wolverine has hit Colossus with his claws one time. And Colossus's armor was no match, in Claremont's words.
Originally posted by Metalmanx
And yes. Strength plays a big part in what Wolverine is able to cut.
Considering the edge of the claws is what makes them cut strength really has very little to do with what Wolverine can cut. His claws are honed many times finer than any blade. Why? Because the adamntium edge doesn't dull so it could be fashioned that way. When the claw's edge slips between molecules you don't need much strength to cut.
Originally posted by Metalmanx
If I were to give you a titanium, diamon-hard blade, laser-sharpened and all that, and placed you in front of a 24-inch-thick (about the depth of Colossus's torso) slab of...I dunno...plexiglass even...With all of your strength, you would not be able to do any real piercing. Sure, you could probably carve a bit, but no real damage would be done. Now, replace that plexiglass with a 24"x 24" 24" slab of solid steel. Yea. You're not going anywhere with that. Even with a much harder, sharper weapon. It's just far too dense. And that is the same problem Wolverine has as well. If he had the strength of say...Spider-Man, then yes. Yes he would be able to peirce Colossus. Rather easily probably. But, since he does not, he cannot.
Wolverine's claws are hundreds to thousands of times more durable than titanium or diamond. They are indestructible. Titanium isn't, neither are diamonds.
We dont know how Wolverine's claws got their edge, so comparing it to a laser sharpened blade is pointless. It could have been done with super advanced alien or future technology.
Wolverine is probably 10 times stronger than I am so I dont know why you would compare the strength levels. They are completely different.
All your theorizing is pointless. Wolverine can cut through foot thick omnium steel like it's not even there. That's a far cry from conventional steel or plexiglass - WTF???
I ask you, What hasn't Wolverine cut???