Count Dooku runs the Gauntlet!

Age is not really a matter in Star Wars, when it comes to Jedi and Sith. For example, Kenobi in the OT was old, but he was merely considered out of practice due to hiding on Tatooine for twenty years. Otherwise, his age would not have affected him.

Yoda is a better example, being 900-years-old. He did not tire out during the fight with Dooku and Sidious thanks to the Force. He was EXTREMELY tired AFTER he had stopped focusing and concentrating. Plus, he uses the Form that requires the most energy, Ataru.

I still think Dooku would win. He's won over Windu before.

13 Years ago...during which time Windu mastered Vaapad.

Windu had mastered Vaapad, and Dooku had mastered Makashi before Windu had invented Vaapad...

Makashi is a lightsaber Form dedicated to dueling, I must remind you. Vaapad was more of a 'Take everything down' style that could be used against mundanes and lightsabers alike.

Captain rex, dude, take into account that when they fought, it was a sparring match, Dooku was probably quite close to his peak while Mace would have been far from his and Windu likely hadn't mastered Vaapad.

Originally posted by Captain REX
Windu had mastered Vaapad, and Dooku had mastered Makashi before Windu had invented Vaapad...

Makashi is a lightsaber Form dedicated to dueling, I must remind you. Vaapad was more of a 'Take everything down' style that could be used against mundanes and lightsabers alike.

His form didn't help him against yoda, did it? Cin Drallig had also mastered Makashi; didn't help against Anakin, did it?

Originally posted by Council#13
Okay, this is a first. Well, no one's done a Dooku, so this can be a first of many! 😱 So, with the power infested in me, I name this the first Dooku Gauntlet thread and give the power to any to do one after this!!!

Dooku gets fully refreshed after each battle! Go! (this is Dooku in his prime)

1. 10 Clone troopers
2. Jango Fett
3. Cin Drallig
4. Ki-Adi-Mundi
5. Qui-Gon (prime)
6. Mace Windu
7. ROTS Sidious

To be honest, I'd say that the clone troopers would prove more of a challenge, as Makashi is not a form geared towards blaster deflection. However, Qui-Gon was able to block blaster bolts easily, and he studied under Dooku, so it would have to be a skill Dooku posessed. I can't see any of the others providing any real challenge, including Palpatine, as his saber technique was totally predictable and readable. It was his knowledge in the Force that made Palpatine the Sith Master, not saber technique (also, Mace bested Palpatine in a saber duel, and Dooku has been shown to be able to duel Mace without difficulty)

Originally posted by Captain REX
Mace is not superior to Dooku. In previous fights, Dooku has been victorious. Read Windu's or Dooku's profile on the Official Site.

1. So they're equal. Good for them.
2. Shatterpoint is useful, yes, but it doesn't make him more skilled.
3. Dooku used Makashi, which uses as little energy as possible. Mace would get tired before Dooku would...

Amen. If Rex says it, it must be true. Rex knows all...

Count Dooku quickly and efficiently makes it past 1 - 6.

Now:

- The details of the Mace vs. Dooku duel when Dooku is a Jedi is, to my knowledge, inconclusive. I'm not familiar with any source of information that indicated "Dooku handled Mace" easily at all.

- Mace and Dooku both had room for improvement, especially Mace. Dooku saw a lot of frontline action in the Clone Wars, but Mace either had the same or even moreso.

If Dooku can beat Mace, it would be one hell of a fight. Dooku wouldn't be toying with him at all.

Furthermore, if Dooku could WTFpwn Mace or defeat him, why did he not do it at Boz Pity, instead of having General Grievous's bodyguards distract him so he could depart? It makes me think that Dooku either knew he'd get beaten or there was a strong chance of it. Kind've like how Palpatine attempted to flee his office when Yoda confronted him.

Secondly:

- Dooku did fear Sidious. I suggest, Rampant, that you read Dark Rendezvous. I believe I still have it with me, and I could give you exact quotes.

- Dooku was the apprentice. Not the master. Furthermore, he didn't ever attempt to betray or kill his master like other Sith Lords have done.

- Assajj Ventress offered to help Dooku kill Sidious. He still declined.

Sidious > Dooku.

If he makes it past Windu, he dies at Sidious.

Originally posted by Escape81
Count Dooku quickly and efficiently makes it past 1 - 6.

Now:

- The details of the Mace vs. Dooku duel when Dooku is a Jedi is, to my knowledge, inconclusive. I'm not familiar with any source of information that indicated "Dooku handled Mace" easily at all.

- Mace and Dooku both had room for improvement, especially Mace. Dooku saw a lot of frontline action in the Clone Wars, but Mace either had the same or even moreso.

If Dooku can beat Mace, it would be one hell of a fight. Dooku wouldn't be toying with him at all.

Furthermore, if Dooku could WTFpwn Mace or defeat him, why did he not do it at Boz Pity, instead of having General Grievous's bodyguards distract him so he could depart? It makes me think that Dooku either knew he'd get beaten or there was a strong chance of it. Kind've like how Palpatine attempted to flee his office when Yoda confronted him.

Secondly:

- Dooku did fear Sidious. I suggest, Rampant, that you read Dark Rendezvous. I believe I still have it with me, and I could give you exact quotes.

- Dooku was the apprentice. Not the master. Furthermore, he didn't ever attempt to betray or kill his master like other Sith Lords have done.

- Assajj Ventress offered to help Dooku kill Sidious. He still declined.

Sidious > Dooku.

If he makes it past Windu, he dies at Sidious.

Count Dooku quickly and efficiently makes it past 1 - 6.

Agreed

- The details of the Mace vs. Dooku duel when Dooku is a Jedi is, to my knowledge, inconclusive. I'm not familiar with any source of information that indicated "Dooku handled Mace" easily at all.

Of course Dooku couldnt handle Mace with ease. They are on par and it would be one hell of a match for both of them.

- Mace and Dooku both had room for improvement, especially Mace. Dooku saw a lot of frontline action in the Clone Wars, but Mace either had the same or even moreso.

Meaning what? They were both highly ranked masters and both had little room for improvement. Action on the battlefield wouldnt have made them better - just kept them from getting rusty.

If Dooku can beat Mace, it would be one hell of a fight. Dooku wouldn't be toying with him at all.

I agree. Dooku sure as hell wouldnt be cocky or arrogant in this fight. As soon as one makes a mistake the other will die.

Furthermore, if Dooku could WTFpwn Mace or defeat him, why did he not do it at Boz Pity, instead of having General Grievous's bodyguards distract him so he could depart? It makes me think that Dooku either knew he'd get beaten or there was a strong chance of it. Kind've like how Palpatine attempted to flee his office when Yoda confronted him.

Its because Dooku/Sids are scared of death. Its not that they cant win, more that they dont want to risk themselves.

- Dooku did fear Sidious. I suggest, Rampant, that you read Dark Rendezvous. I believe I still have it with me, and I could give you exact quotes.

Quotes would be helpful. But its not like the Count was shitting himself whenever he was near Sids.

- Dooku was the apprentice. Not the master. Furthermore, he didn't ever attempt to betray or kill his master like other Sith Lords have done.

Meaning what exactly. Sids had far more force knowledge which kept him the master. Saber skills I would put Dooku above Sidious. And because Dooku didnt kill Sids means nothing. Only that he was a loyal apprentice.

Sidious > Dooku.

If he makes it past Windu, he dies at Sidious.

Sids probably is better. However if the environment was in the Counts favor Dooku would have a very good chance at victory.

Of course Dooku couldnt handle Mace with ease. They are on par and it would be one hell of a match for both of them.

Glad you realize it.

Meaning what?

You're quite fond of showing that Windu is younger and possesses less experience. That means that Windu's room for improvement is larger than Dooku's own.

They were both highly ranked masters and both had little room for improvement. Action on the battlefield wouldnt have made them better - just kept them from getting rusty.

Poor logic.

You're telling me that being on the battlefield (which gives them effective excuses to actively use their Force and saber abilities) would not give them any improvement?

You may wish to rethink that.

Its because Dooku/Sids are scared of death. Its not that they cant win, more that they dont want to risk themselves.

Dooku risked death when he ever encountered a Clone Trooper. Yoda risked death when he ever encountered a Clone Trooper or a Battle droid. So did Mace. But that didn't stop them, did it?

Palpatine risked death when he hurled himself at three very capable Jedi Masters in his office.

Risk is nothing. Dooku and Sidious fear how big the risk was. In either case, the risk of their death was EXTREMELY high. Easily fifty percent.

Quotes would be helpful. But its not like the Count was shitting himself whenever he was near Sids.

I'll get the book ASAP (I think it's on my shelf)

Actually, it said that Dooku's "youth and energy" was stripped from him. Essentially, Sidious was the only thing making him feel his age.

Meaning what exactly.

Meaning that all Sith (save for Darth Maul - who was raised to be without ambition) wish to eventually kill their master, and assume the mantle themselves.

Sids had far more force knowledge which kept him the master. Saber skills I would put Dooku above Sidious. And because Dooku didnt kill Sids means nothing. Only that he was a loyal apprentice.

It does mean something. It means that Dooku was so frightened of Sidious that he didn't attempt to kill him.

Sids probably is better. However if the environment was in the Counts favor Dooku would have a very good chance at victory.

All you're doing is attempting to put Dooku in a hypothetical situation where he might win. Yes, the chance is there. Hell, in the proper environment, Grievous or Obi-Wan could kill Sidious - I'm sure.

'Only in this situation, stooped before the image of his Master, did he feel his years. Even via hologram , the flickering figure of Darth Sidious, hideous in blue and shadows, seemed to strip his false youth away, leaving his bones brittle, his joints worn thin and knotted with tension .'

'"Ridiculous?" his Master had said, in that soft, terrible voice of his. "I hardly think so." And then, his voice like honeyed poison, "A good student always loves his teacher." There was always a risk , talking with Sidious. Sometimes the conversation would go badly, and Dooku would fail to please somehow. It was a terrible thing, failing to please his master .'

(I'm finding more)

You're quite fond of showing that Windu is younger and possesses less experience. That means that Windu's room for improvement is larger than Dooku's own.

No. Everyone has their limits on how powerful they can become. They are on par. Mace reached his potential far quicker than Dooku reached his. However by ROTS they had basically become as strong as they were going to get and this strength was equal. Because Mace is younger means little, only less force control. Dooku's age means more practice - and more practice means more control. So Mace will never have the same force control as Dooku because Dooku will always be older and have practiced more. This is why i say that Maces youth will be his downfall against the Count. Because he will never have the same force control.

Poor logic.

You're telling me that being on the battlefield (which gives them effective excuses to actively use their Force and saber abilities) would not give them any improvement?

You may wish to rethink that.

Like I said before they had both reached their potential. They werent going to get any stronger.

Dooku risked death when he ever encountered a Clone Trooper. Yoda risked death when he ever encountered a Clone Trooper or a Battle droid. So did Mace. But that didn't stop them, did it?

Palpatine risked death when he hurled himself at three very capable Jedi Masters in his office.

Risk is nothing. Dooku and Sidious fear how big the risk was. In either case, the risk of their death was EXTREMELY high. Easily fifty percent.

Your twisting the point. Humans go outside, even though there is a risk of getting hit by a car. Dooku fights clone troopers, even though there is a risk of getting shot. These are very small risks and are irrelevant. However fighting another jedi/sith is completely different. You know there is a chance of being killed. Sith fear death and would often avoid confrontation that could lead to death. For example Sids vs Yoda. Sids tried to run but in the fight he still won.

Meaning that all Sith (save for Darth Maul - who was raised to be without ambition) wish to eventually kill their master, and assume the mantle themselves.

It does mean something. It means that Dooku was so frightened of Sidious that he didn't attempt to kill him.

Hmmm. Dooku was once a jedi. He had a senseof honour and pride that most sith lacked. I doubt that he didnt kill Sids because of fear, more that he was loyal.

All you're doing is attempting to put Dooku in a hypothetical situation where he might win. Yes, the chance is there. Hell, in the proper environment, Grievous or Obi-Wan could kill Sidious - I'm sure.

No. I doubt that they would beat Sids even if they had the advantage. In an enclosed space Dooku wins. An open space Sids wins.

No, it's not that simple. I am actually in the process of watching AotC again (because it is my personal favorite of the PT and I haven't watched it in a while) - so I can't respond to each of your individual points.

It's not that simple for you to assume that Dooku could defeat Sidious in an enclosed place. The chances are higher, but it isn't guarenteed either way. So don't pass off your opinion as FACT.

Originally posted by DE Luke
Exactly.Very well answered,Escape. 😉

Whats the matter Luke? Can't speak for yourself?

Originally posted by Pyro Tyrannus
Whats the matter Luke? Can't speak for yourself?

No, but it's possible that he simply agrees with what I say, and to repeat it would be redundant.

Originally posted by Escape81
No, but it's possible that he simply agrees with what I say, and to repeat it would be redundant.

Sorry Escape, but that guy goes around saying people can't argue when all he does is agree with anyone who makes the same point he is trying to make. . .

Originally posted by Pyro Tyrannus
Sorry Escape, but that guy goes around saying people can't argue when all he does is agree with anyone who makes the same point he is trying to make. . .

Yup. Youtube is a wonderful website. It allows me to watch the Dooku and Yoda fight scene and the Sidious and Yoda fight scene, without switching DVDs and all that jazz.

I'll be comparing the two fights in the next post - to prove why Sidious would defeat Dooku. Then, my behind's hitting my nice bed. Hopefully.

Count Dooku was able to stalemate Yoda in a fight scene that lasted approximately 2 minutes and 46 seconds. Palpatine was able to stalemate Yoda in a fight scene that lasted 5 minutes and 40 seconds (not including the events that occured when the Anakin vs. Obi-Wan scenes popped up in between Yoda vs. Sidious).

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The Force fight between Count Dooku and Yoda wasn't really much of a fight, as it was obvious that Yoda's control of the Force still, by a considerable amount, exceeded his former padawan's.

Dooku hurled two generators at Yoda, and each was repelled. Dooku then tried to crush Yoda with some debris from the cavern's roof. Yoda caught them and brushed them to the side.

Dooku then attempted to then electrocute Yoda. Yoda caught the blast with one hand and pushed it back. Dooku then attempted to electrocute Yoda a second time, which Yoda caught and then crushed in his bare hand.

Note that the only instance during the Force duel where Yoda actually attempted to harm Dooku, was with the first initial attempt to disable him with Force lightning, which Dooku quickly reverted to the roof.

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The saber fight between Count Dooku and Yoda is actually roughly 40 seconds in duration. Dooku is constantly on the defensive, Yoda pressing the attack. I actually don't recall in one instance where Dooku had the offensive.

So, essentially, in less than a minute in a sheer saber-to-saber battle, Dooku is ready to call it quits, and thus endangers the life of Obi-Wan and Anakin in order to escape.

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Verdict: Sorry, but Dooku seems to be a firm notch or two beneath Yoda in lightsaber fighting and definately in a Force contest.