Count Dooku runs the Gauntlet!

Started by Escape8110 pages
He struggled not because of the size of the object, but because of the limitiations he was putting on himself. Stop trying to dispute what Master Yoda actually said. Even when Yoda raised the X-Wing, Luke said that he didn't believe it (that he didn't think it was possible) and Yoda quite clearly said "That is why you fail." The reason for Luke's failure was not the size of the object, but himself.

You're taking it out of context. If it were true, Yoda or RotJ Luke could chuck a planet across the galaxy.

Palpatine is not a better swordsman than Dooku.

Perhaps not. But - he effectively held his own and matched Yoda - so he could hold his own against Dooku. And, like I said, Palpatine's Force powers are definately (without a doubt) superior to Dooku's. He would win against him in an all out fight.

In AotC, Dooku and Yoda's Force abilities were shown as equal, but Yoda was shown to have marginally better duelling skills than Dooku, but certainly not by much.

Um . . . no, they weren't. Yoda didn't even attempt to attack Dooku, save for one occasion - and Dooku repelled it. Why? It was Force lightning. You don't know what would've happened if Yoda decided to do what he did with Sidious and chuck the damn generator back.

I did say that Yoda and Palpatine were equals, but, having re-watched the scene, at the end of their contest, Palpatine was actually the more concerned by the Force Lightning that Yoda was absorbing, so Yoda's Force abilities are marginally better than Palpatine's (again, not by much).

They are equals. Palpatine definately disarmed Yoda when he blasted his damn saber out of his hand with Force lightning. He then began to blast Yoda - forcing Yoda to remain stationary - and was only defeated when his own energies exploded - pushing them back.

The only reason Palpatine won (plot necessity) was that when he fell, he fell against a railing he could use as a grip to pull himself up, but Yoda fell against a totally smooth surface, so was not able to pull himself up. Yoda then chose to simply retreat rather than continue the fight, something Dooku told Grievous to do, and had probably been told by Yoda.

First off, quit excusing Palpatine's victory on a damn plot necessity. Hell. Dooku beating AotC is now officially a "plot necessity". They're all plot necessities.

Secondly, Yoda fell to the Senate Floor, yes, because he was smaller and weaker (physically). What's your point?

Thirdly, Yoda retreated because the fight could've gone either way - and he had a limited time.

Palpatine's Force ablilities may be superior to Dooku's (re-watching the duel between Palpatine and Yoda has made me re-evaluate Yoda's Force abilities)

No. They are definately superior.

Dooku's saber abilities are definitely superior to Palpatine's.

Never denied it. All I said was that Palpatine could definately hold his own against Dooku if he kept up, blow-for-blow, against Yoda.

Palpatine did not disarm Yoda with his lightsaber (for some reason, he just stopped using it, and started chucking the pods around)

A-ha!

Dooku never disarmed Yoda either. Not even with the Force. Hell, he couldn't do it on VJUN! A planet steeped in the Dark Side. So if that is why you rank Dooku above Palpatine, you're sadly, sadly mistaken.

Trumped.

he times when he was seen using his saber (against Mace and even Yoda) his abilities were not as good as those against Dooku (who also fought Yoda on screen)

Rofl. Last time I checked, he fought against Yoda "on screen" too.

Neither Mace nor Palpatine were using the Force during their duel, so that cannot be used as an explanation. When relying on purely physical skills with a saber, Palpatine's moves were obvious and readable.

Because he uses a style similar to Ataru - and he's a few feet taller than Yoda - thus he is limited in options. Palpatine is equal to Yoda in the Force, and superior to Mace and Dooku in the Force by a considerable degree.

Just watched it again (actually stopped writing to do so to check a point) I don't disagree with what you've said (in this paragraph) but the outcome of the contest was one solely dictated by luck (or in reality, plot necessity)

It is ALL a plot necessity! Stop trying to use it as an excuse!

I'll finish later.

I think this "anyone can move anything" should not even be debated. The size does have a difference. Why did Yoda struggle more when lifting that generator (when it was in motion) than he had to lift those rocks that Dooku TOSSED at him, or those pods that Sidious TOSSED at him? Those were in more motion and actually had much more force behind them, still it took less effort for Yoda to do it.

It's because Vious's logic is sheer crap.

He's taking Yoda's quote to Luke out of context. Perhaps in that situation, "size didn't matter" - but in the grand scheme of things? Yes it does. Otherwise, anyone with ESB Luke's Force mastery would be able to chuck stars, black holes, or planets.

Exactly.

Yoda generally did talk crap, he really wasn't that wise. All his beliefs were totally flawed.

Why argue when its obvious that Mace was out of the way when Dooku made his escape.

LOOK AT THE COMIC STRIP!

He uses his guards to distract Mace so he can escape.

Saying that Dooku was toying with him is like saying that Anakin was toying with Obi-wan on mustafar, when in reality he WASN'T!!!

Totally agree. Much like with Yoda, if Count Dooku (who is heralded as both brave and "honorable) would be able to solidly defeat Mace Windu, he would've stayed and finished him.

But the fact remains: They are, at best, equals. Though I am inclined to think that Mace is slightly better. Just "slightly". Not enough to even guarentee him a victory, if given the circumstances.

Mace is slightly better because he uses a different style to Dooku.

Also, Yoda and Palpatine are equal.

And Obi-wan kenobi and Anakin are equal.

Yoda is better than Dooku beause he absorbs his force lightning, which Dooku can't, he only deflects it.

Yoda is the exact equal of Palpatine because in ROTS, Yoda is equal in combat and he hold Palpatine's lightning and sends it back at him and it knocks them back the same amount.

Mace is slightly better because he uses a different style to Dooku.

Ehh . . . not to burst your bubble, but Count Dooku's lightsaber style is effectively "the best". Makashi, which allows for more effective lightsaber to lightsaber confrontations. However, as shown with Yoda and Anakin - who practice "inferior" forms - it's not going to defeat everyone.

Also, Yoda and Palpatine are equal.

I agree.

And Obi-wan kenobi and Anakin are equal.

Ehh . . . in pure ability? No, they're not. Anakin is the better fighter. He's younger, stronger, and more agile. His connection to the Force is superior and his potential is vastly better. His downfall is his recklessness. Obi-Wan knows Anakin's psychological, emotional, and figurative weaknesses. Plus, Obi-Wan's not too shabby with a saber, and his defense is incredible.

Yoda is better than Dooku beause he absorbs his force lightning, which Dooku can't, he only deflects it.

I wouldn't say Yoda is better than Dooku for that reason. But yes, his command of the Force is stronger and he is a better "fighter".

Yoda is the exact equal of Palpatine because in ROTS, Yoda is equal in combat and he hold Palpatine's lightning and sends it back at him and it knocks them back the same amount.

Yoda and Palpatine are virtual equals. They both share important blows and both of them managed to disarm one another (or so I assume that Yoda disarmed Palpatine).