Originally posted by Imperial_Samura
Quite possibly, though if he cared about humanity at all one would hope that the plan had to do with them helping solve all sorts of diseases and malady his daddy saw fit to plague us with.
Cheers to you for taking me at face value.
And while he's planning our future, why not toss in another flood or a few plagues to free his "chosen people".
I'm all for Stem Cell Research...
If women are going to have Abortions and get rid of thier foetuses, I think it'd be awesome if they'd give thier foetuses to scientific research instead of just dumping them.
Let's atleast MAKE USE of something rather than waste it !
Wondorful things can come from this scientific progression !
Originally posted by Lord Urizen
If women are going to have Abortions and get rid of thier foetuses, I think it'd be awesome if they'd give thier foetuses to scientific research instead of just dumping them.
Fetus's are not use in stem cell research-embryos are.
I find it is sick that scientists could so cruelly give a rat a disease to paralyze them, then experiment with a few cells in the hope they would walk again. What would happen if their experiement failed? 'Never mind, it's just a rat, lets kill it'. How dare these people breed poor, defenceless animals just so they can make them sick?
I am against embryonic stem cell research. While I think it wonderful that stem cells could cure all manner of disease and illness, I do not believe human embryos are the right way to go. Especially when these scientists are not happy with the embryos they already have, donated, or left over from IVF to experiment on, they are demanding that they be permitted to clone human embryos for the sole purpose of destroying them.
If we were to cure Parkinson's disease with human stem cells, how many embryos would be destroyed to cure one persons illness? Scientists will never have enough embryos from donations or IVF leftovers, so they will have to be able to clone, which is something our Government will never allow. (Thank heavens)
An embryo may not be a life, but it is worth something, because it the potential to become something wonderful. Do we really have the right t take that chance away, all for a science experiment? 😕
Originally posted by autumn dreams
Fetus's are not use in stem cell research-embryos are.I find it is sick that scientists could so cruelly give a rat a disease to paralyze them, then experiment with a few cells in the hope they would walk again. What would happen if their experiement failed? 'Never mind, it's just a rat, lets kill it'. How dare these people breed poor, defenceless animals just so they can make them sick?
I am against embryonic stem cell research. While I think it wonderful that stem cells could cure all manner of disease and illness, I do not believe human embryos are the right way to go. Especially when these scientists are not happy with the embryos they already have, donated, or left over from IVF to experiment on, they are demanding that they be permitted to clone human embryos for the sole purpose of destroying them.
If we were to cure Parkinson's disease with human stem cells, how many embryos would be destroyed to cure one persons illness? Scientists will never have enough embryos from donations or IVF leftovers, so they will have to be able to clone, which is something our Government will never allow. (Thank heavens)
An embryo may not be a life, but it is worth something, because it the potential to become something wonderful. Do we really have the right t take that chance away, all for a science experiment? 😕
Really? I think it's 'sick' when the advancement of modern medicine is hindered by Luddites, religious fanatics and people who care more about animals than people. How dare you presumably use the fruits of medical research while deriding the efforts of the researchers.
IIRC embryonic stem cells are harvested at the blastocyst stage - a mass of cells with no consciousness, no personality, no intelligence. A cloned embryo will never develop beyond such early stages. Parkinson's is a progressive neurodegenerative disorder that results in debilitating symptoms. Millions worldwide suffer from the illness and millions more have to watch their loved ones slowly lose there mental and motor skills. Similarly Huntington's, Alzheimer's, Amyotropic Lateral Sclerosis, and a number of other illnesses. If you knew anyone with any of these illnesses maybe you'd have a little sympathy for that which is already something rather than that which has the potential to be something.
Originally posted by autumn dreams
I find it is sick that scientists could so cruelly give a rat a disease to paralyze them, then experiment with a few cells in the hope they would walk again. What would happen if their experiement failed? 'Never mind, it's just a rat, lets kill it'. How dare these people breed poor, defenceless animals just so they can make them sick?
Originally posted by autumn dreamsNot surprising. Aparently you don't know anyone who's paralyzed, or has parkinsons or alzhimers. You are apparently not familiar with the any sort of scientific protocol. Every embryo only has so many stem cells. To do a real experiment...you need to repeat it over and over again...hence why we want to clone the cells of leftover embryos. This allows us to do science and prevents us from needing bajillions of embryos.
I am against embryonic stem cell research. While I think it wonderful that stem cells could cure all manner of disease and illness, I do not believe human embryos are the right way to go. Especially when these scientists are not happy with the embryos they already have, donated, or left over from IVF to experiment on, they are demanding that they be permitted to clone human embryos for the sole purpose of destroying them.
Originally posted by autumn dreams
If we were to cure Parkinson's disease with human stem cells, how many embryos would be destroyed to cure one persons illness? Scientists will never have enough embryos from donations or IVF leftovers, so they will have to be able to clone, which is something our Government will never allow. (Thank heavens).
Apparently you (like our administration) doesn't know what cloning is. Ther are two types of cloning. Reproductive cloning is menat to make idenical copies of viable human beings and bringing them to term. Most nations and most scientiest are against this for ethical reasons.
The other type of cloning is theraputic cloning, which simply put is replicateing individual cells (in this case stem cells). This is allowed in most places in the world. The US is one of a few countries in the world that does not allow theraputic cloning of human cells. It will be allowed....if not soon then our medical industry will be exported.
Originally posted by autumn dreams
An embryo may not be a life, but it is worth something, because it the potential to become something wonderful. Do we really have the right t take that chance away, all for a science experiment? 😕 [/COLOR]
Originally posted by autumn dreams
I find it is sick that scientists could so cruelly give a rat a disease to paralyze them, then experiment with a few cells in the hope they would walk again. What would happen if their experiement failed?
What would happen? They're RATS! Who gives a shit? It's all for the children, anyway!
Originally posted by autumn dreams
Fetus's are not use in stem cell research-embryos are.
Seems like a very minor distinction. And stem cell research doesn't just use embryos. In fact in face of the unreasonable opposition researchers have found other viable sources - thus it is foolish for it to be stopped due to the embryo argument if stem cells can also be obtained from other sources such as umbilical blood.
I find it is sick that scientists could so cruelly give a rat a disease to paralyze them, then experiment with a few cells in the hope they would walk again. What would happen if their experiement failed? 'Never mind, it's just a rat, lets kill it'. How dare these people breed poor, defenceless animals just so they can make them sick?
I am concerned about animal welfare certainly, but, while some may scoff, animals in laboratory experiments such as this are treated humanly, and rarely suffer pain, and sadly sometimes sacrifices have to be made. Without the aid of test subjects humans would still be dying from everything from smallpox to the bubonic plague. The contribution from a small number of rats - which would be a pest and subject to cruel extermination in the normal world are here contributing to something that could one day save countless lives and end undocumented amounts of pain.
I am against embryonic stem cell research. While I think it wonderful that stem cells could cure all manner of disease and illness, I do not believe human embryos are the right way to go. Especially when these scientists are not happy with the embryos they already have, donated, or left over from IVF to experiment on, they are demanding that they be permitted to clone human embryos for the sole purpose of destroying them.
My first point covers this. While it is admitted that the best and most viable stem cells are embryonic, they can be obtained from other sources.
If we were to cure Parkinson's disease with human stem cells, how many embryos would be destroyed to cure one persons illness? Scientists will never have enough embryos from donations or IVF leftovers, so they will have to be able to clone, which is something our Government will never allow. (Thank heavens)
The whole purpose of research with potential benefits is to one: access and deliver whether it is actually a cure and the viability of the cure; two: to find a way that the cure can be produced in a sustainable manner. I do not believe that when results prove the extreme value of stem cells to medicine that it will lead to mass embryonic cloning.
An embryo may not be a life, but it is worth something, because it the potential to become something wonderful. Do we really have the right t take that chance away, all for a science experiment? 😕
A scientific experiment with enormous potential for the health and well being of humanity. And once again - more then one source of stem cells.
Also, I DO know plently of people with illnesses that could be cured by stem cell research. My pop died of lung cancer and my uncle has a severe lung disease, which could probably be helped one day by these stem cells. You think I don't know that people suffer everyday from illness? I am very aware of that fact. Having said that, just because I may feel for those suffering, doesn't mean I have to support something which I believe to be immoral. You seem to be discusted that I disagree with this research-well, it is my right to disagree, and it is your right to support this research.
Animals have feelings too, or do you beat your pets and think they don't feel pain? Humans are important, but so are animals. To kill an animal is barbaric, to kill a human is also barbaric. I am not saying killing an animal is worse than killing a human, so don't even go there.
We don't know that animals in science labs are treated with care-we wouldn't even be able to step foot inside a lab to see, so how can we know? We are told by these 'scientists' that the animals are treated with dignity, but can we be sure? Or does that not matter to you, as long a humans MIGHT, and I say MIGHT because has embryonic stem cell research made someone walk again? Has it cured Parkinsons? How long will it take, how many embryos will it take to make ONE persons life that little bit easier? One? Ten? Ten thousand? We don't know, do we?
Originally posted by autumn dreamsI am a scientist.
Also, I DO know plently of people with illnesses that could be cured by stem cell research. My pop died of lung cancer and my uncle has a severe lung disease, which could probably be helped one day by these stem cells. You think I don't know that people suffer everyday from illness? I am very aware of that fact. Having said that, just because I may feel for those suffering, doesn't mean I have to support something which I believe to be immoral. You seem to be discusted that I disagree with this research-well, it is my right to disagree, and it is your right to support this research.Animals have feelings too, or do you beat your pets and think they don't feel pain? Humans are important, but so are animals. To kill an animal is barbaric, to kill a human is also barbaric. I am not saying killing an animal is worse than killing a human, so don't even go there.
We don't know that animals in science labs are treated with care-we wouldn't even be able to step foot inside a lab to see, so how can we know? We are told by these 'scientists' that the animals are treated with dignity, but can we be sure? Or does that not matter to you, as long a humans MIGHT, and I say MIGHT because has embryonic stem cell research made someone walk again? Has it cured Parkinsons? How long will it take, how many embryos will it take to make ONE persons life that little bit easier? One? Ten? Ten thousand? We don't know, do we?
Originally posted by autumn dreams
Also, I DO know plently of people with illnesses that could be cured by stem cell research. My pop died of lung cancer and my uncle has a severe lung disease, which could probably be helped one day by these stem cells. You think I don't know that people suffer everyday from illness? I am very aware of that fact. Having said that, just because I may feel for those suffering, doesn't mean I have to support something which I believe to be immoral. You seem to be discusted that I disagree with this research-well, it is my right to disagree, and it is your right to support this research.
Immoral how? To save life, to extend life by using embryos that are never going to be life? To humanly test on animals in order to minimise the risk to humans, and also to limit the number of animals that will have to be used? And besides, there are other sources for stem cells - is it still immoral to use stem cells from umbilical blood?
Animals have feelings too, or do you beat your pets and think they don't feel pain? Humans are important, but so are animals. To kill an animal is barbaric, to kill a human is also barbaric. I am not saying killing an animal is worse than killing a human, so don't even go there.
Do you eat meat? Do you put out traps or poison to kill cockroaches and rats that damage property and can bring illness? It all goes on. Compared to most of it laboratory testing is paradise - and it has far, far more to offer.
We don't know that animals in science labs are treated with care-we wouldn't even be able to step foot inside a lab to see, so how can we know? We are told by these 'scientists' that the animals are treated with dignity, but can we be sure?
Most western nations have stringent laws and rules in place that regulate the scientific industry - including animal test subjects. They are constantly monitored in how they treat them, and laboratories that act incorrectly can, and are, shut down or prevented from continuing research. There is a research park near my university, and some animal testing goes on there, and I know for a fact that the animals are treated humanly - far more humanely then a pet shop, or in the wild. IN fact many researchers become attached to the animals, great and small. They aren't heartless, but they do realise that this is necessary research for the good of humanity.
Or does that not matter to you, as long a humans MIGHT, and I say MIGHT because has embryonic stem cell research made someone walk again? Has it cured Parkinsons? How long will it take, how many embryos will it take to make ONE persons life that little bit easier? One? Ten? Ten thousand? We don't know, do we?
It doesn't work like that. They don't inject a dozen embryos into some guy or rat and watch and see if he works. A drop of blood, a near microscopic bit of skin - numerous cells. Stem cells aren't that different, it is not about a mountain of embryos - it doesn't work that way.
Originally posted by Imperial_Samura
Immoral how? To save life, to extend life by using embryos that are never going to be life?
But, if given the chance, they COULD become a life. That is what I dislike about it-the fact that they have the potential to become something wonderful. I consider an embryo to be human, to be worthy of respect. I have thought a lot of about stem cell research, and what it could do, but I cannot agree with using human embryos for it.
Originally posted by Imperial_Samura
And besides, there are other sources for stem cells - is it still immoral to use stem cells from umbilical blood?
This is different. Cord cells are not embryos. They will never become life because they are not life. I strongly support the use of cord blood cells, AND adult stem cells. I believe we should be using adult stem cells instead of embryonic cells BEFORE we start using embryos. And if we allow embryos to be cloned, what next? Scientists will not want to stop, they will want to clone more and more, and that isn't what we should be doing. Yes, we should be doing all we can to relieve a persons suffering, but are using human embryos really the way to go about that, especially as many people, religious and no, simply don't agree with the research?
Originally posted by autumn dreamsWow... 😐. Because of that I know that animals used in research are treated humanely. I have sacrificed animals for research. Do I want to? No. Do I know it's necessary? Yes. Your assertions of scientists using animals as cruel inhuman monsters is blatantly wrong. Riddle me this: How many of Imperial Samura's questions did you answer 'Yes' to?
And because of that, you support this research.
Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Wow... 😐. Because of that I know that animals used in research are treated humanely. I have sacrificed animals for research. Do I want to? No. Do I know it's necessary? Yes. Your assertions of scientists using animals as cruel inhuman monsters is blatantly wrong. Riddle me this: How many of Imperial Samura's questions did you answer 'Yes' to?
I believe I answered his question regarding cord blood.
It is wonderful that the institution you work in treats animals with respect. But what of other instituions? They may not be as humane as your lab.
Answer me this: If an animal can prove that using stem cells actually works, if someone were to go into a vet with their pet cat who has suffered a broken leg, do you think they would be able to have that animals cells cloned to enable to animal to walk again?
Originally posted by Imperial_SamuraA new avenue recently discovery is that the adult brain actually still produces stem cells in some regions like the hippocampus which is important in learning and memory, and a lot of work is involved in discovering ways to exploit this for therapeutic means. Embryonic stem cell research however are still an important field because these cells are pluripotent rather than just multipotent.
I think, based upon the researchers I know, that a scientist won't simply support research because it is research, but rather because it deserves to be supported.
Originally posted by autumn dreamsWow... 😐. I meant his questions regarding meat, etc.
I believe I answered his question regarding cord blood.It is wonderful that the institution you work in treats animals with respect. But what of other instituions? They may not be as humane as your lab.
Answer me this: If an animal can prove that using stem cells actually works, if someone were to go into a vet with their pet cat who has suffered a broken leg, do you think they would be able to have that animals cells cloned to enable to animal to walk again?
Any reputable University has an ethics body overseeing research. Researchers have to sign legally binding ethical agreements. External bodies that fund research also have stringent ethical procedures.
Why would a vet need stem cells for a broken leg. And no, stem cells wouldn't be a very viable option for cancer considering cancers are growths of cells, not abnormal cellular degeneration and death.
The embryos used for research have zero potential for "becoming something wonderful." If they aren't used they will be destroyed.