Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
What would happen? They're RATS! Who gives a shit? It's all for the children, anyway!
The fact that they are rats isn't the point. No one could ever get away with deliberatly giving a child a disease, so why should a scientist get away with inflicting illness on a rat?
Originally posted by autumn dreams
But, if given the chance, they COULD become a life. That is what I dislike about it-the fact that they have the potential to become something wonderful. I consider an embryo to be human, to be worthy of respect. I have thought a lot of about stem cell research, and what it could do, but I cannot agree with using human embryos for it.
But could and will are two very different things. However by way of this research they can also become life, if you like. They could potentially save lives. And comparing them it troublesome - you consider them human, thus you can't condone usage as that would kill them. But to block this avenue will potentially cost existing, actual human lives. However it must be remembered that embryos used for this research have no potential to become a human being, with or without stem cell research - not using them would lead to the destruction anyway. Surely it is better if they actually contribute to saving lives?
This is different. Cord cells are not embryos. They will never become life because they are not life. I strongly support the use of cord blood cells, AND adult stem cells. I believe we should be using adult stem cells instead of embryonic cells BEFORE we start using embryos. And if we allow embryos to be cloned, what next? Scientists will not want to stop, they will want to clone more and more, and that isn't what we should be doing. Yes, we should be doing all we can to relieve a persons suffering, but are using human embryos really the way to go about that, especially as many people, religious and no, simply don't agree with the research?
Well, religious people are often disagreeing with science, in all it's forms. I do not believe that such views, which are often based on baseless fears and ignorance should stant in the way of scientific progress.
But anyway, what you are saying is that you can accept stem cell research in certain conditions. As to cloning, that is an entirely different debate, but for the sake of things I will say support cloning research, along with research into transgenics and genetic modification. These needlessly controversial fields have a great deal to offer.
Any reputable University has an ethics body overseeing research. Researchers have to sign legally binding ethical agreements. External bodies that fund research also have stringent ethical procedures.
Exactly.
Originally posted by Imperial_Samura
But could and will are two very different things. However by way of this research they can also become life, if you like. They could potentially save lives. And comparing them it troublesome - you consider them human, thus you can't condone usage as that would kill them. But to block this avenue will potentially cost existing, actual human lives. However it must be remembered that embryos used for this research have no potential to become a human being, with or without stem cell research - not using them would lead to the destruction anyway. Surely it is better if they actually contribute to saving lives?
If the embryos in question are dead, they have no chance of becoming anything. Research may be okay in this instance, but I just don't like the idea of an embryo being...vilated, Isuppose. I can't think of another word for it. I hope we find cures for all these illnesses, I really do, but surely there is a better way to go about that?
Originally posted by Imperial_Samura
But anyway, what you are saying is that you can accept stem cell research in certain conditions.
Yes, this would be true.
Originally posted by autumn dreamsYou'd prefer the idea of people suffering from Alzheimer's, Huntington's, Parkinson's, ALS, stroke, depression, epilepsy....?
Of course a rat is nothing like a child. I just don't like the idea of animals being harmed, no matter if they feel no pain, for medical research.
Originally posted by autumn dreamsFirst off...I'm a molecular biologist and I work with mice and rats in the lab on a weekly basis. They are treated extreemely humanely. Jeust because you don't know something doesn't mean its automatically wrong. They almost get better anesthesia than you get.
We don't know that animals in science labs are treated with care-we wouldn't even be able to step foot inside a lab to see, so how can we know? We are told by these 'scientists' that the animals are treated with dignity, but can we be sure? Or does that not matter to you, as long a humans MIGHT, and I say MIGHT because has embryonic stem cell research made someone walk again? Has it cured Parkinsons? How long will it take, how many embryos will it take to make ONE persons life that little bit easier? One? Ten? Ten thousand? We don't know, do we?[/COLOR]
Originally posted by Alliance
Perhaps you should be used then? Would you volunteer your life to help save millions of others?
Would advocates of stem cell research sacrifice their own lives to save others? Of course not-animals can be disposed of much more easier.
I am NOT against trying to find a cure for these illnesses, please do not think that. I just do not like the idea of human embryos being used-that is all. Is that such a bad thing?
My opinions on related topics:
Pro-stem cell research
pro animal testing
anti-abortion
Just to raise a question, the article didn't really state whether they were embryonic or adult. I know that to a lot of people the embryonic stem cells seem to show more immediate promise, but I'm hoping for advances with the adult variety. If doctors could use your own stem cells to grow your replacement tissues there would be no immunorejection factor.
Well, whichever type they are, the real winners will be the people who get to use the treatment 10-15 years down the road.
Originally posted by autumn dreams
Would advocates of stem cell research sacrifice their own lives to save others? Of course not-animals can be disposed of much more easier.
Well, it is amazing how far some people will go to help the suffering. I wouldn't be surprised if there were people out there who would sacrifice their lives to save the life of a loved one.
Of course that defeats the purpose - stem cell research is about saving lives, improving lives, not taking a life.
But anyway, it goes back to what I asked before - what about animals for food? Animals killed as pests or danger? Animals dying in deforestation for houses? What is you stance on all that? Arguably these kinds of animal death are usually far less pleasant or humane then the lives of animals in animal research, and rarely contribute as much.
"Embryonic Stem Cells Repair Paralysis in Rats" Chicago TribuneWashington, D.C. - Scientists have used stem cells and nerve-friendly chemicals to regrow the circuitry needed to move a muscle, helping partially paralyzed rats walk.
woot I'm so happy that years of killing living human embryos payed off in a rat being able to walk again! [/sarcasm]
Originally posted by autumn dreams
Would advocates of stem cell research sacrifice their own lives to save others? Of course not-animals can be disposed of much more easier.I am NOT against trying to find a cure for these illnesses, please do not think that. I just do not like the idea of human embryos being used-that is all. Is that such a bad thing?
Do you get that the embryos that scientists want to use are left over from fertility clinics or are donated. If they are not used they are litterally washed down sinks. Instead of wasting them...why not let us take the 16 or 32 cells and use them for research.
The problem is that imo you have no credible reasons to back up your claim.
Originally posted by Nazgulinthedark
woot I'm so happy that years of killing living human embryos payed off in a rat being able to walk again! [/sarcasm]
I'm so glad that you are so narrowminded that you can't see the power this research has.
And I'm so glad that you are so ignorant of science to believe human stem cells were even used in this experiment. Stem cells from mice (im assuming M. musculus) were used.
Originally posted by Alliance
I'm so glad that you are so narrowminded that you can't see the power this research has.And I'm so glad that you are so ignorant of science to believe human stem cells were even used in this experiment. Stem cells from mice (im assuming M. musculus) were used.
Originally posted by Alliance
are left over from fertility clinics
Originally posted by Alliance
Look. They wer two different posts for areason...the one to autumn has to do with general stem cell research.on to you. I don't know if they have fertility clinics for mice. but in the Kerr study mice stem cells were used. Read the study or any pop news article on it.
Perhaps in that study. But I know that human embryos are used for research and that's what I wanted to get at. Not so much that they used it for this case in particular.
Originally posted by Nazgulinthedark
Yes, because they have fertility clinics for mice.
Dear me, the lack of scientific understanding in the world! Mice have stem cells just like people and cows and whatever. It is possible to establish mice embryos in scientific conditions, outside of a body, just like human and cows and whatever. And they can get stem cells from any of them. And they could likely get stem cells at some point from an adult mouse, just like from an adult human or adult cow or whatever.
And as to your sarcasm about making a paralysed rat walk - this is science. By doing this it is likely that one day they will be able to make a paralysed humans walk.
Perhaps in that study. But I know that human embryos are used for research and that's what I wanted to get at. Not so much that they used it for this case in particular.
Yes they have been used before. Embryos with no other practical use. What would you have done with them? Keep them in deep freeze for the rest of eternity? Or simply dispose of them? Because those two acts would be infinitely better and more respectful then, oh, I don't know, discovering the cure for terrible diseases and saving lives.