Originally posted by autumn dreams
Would you also say 'It's only a kitten, or it's only a puppy'? A rat is an animal. Rats feel pain. Rats were not put here for people to experiement with.
Ever heard of the "Black Death"? It was deadly disease spread in the 14th century... by guess what? Rats. Of course back then sanitation was next to nothing and medicine was a relative joke. The point is that they are filthy disgusting creatures. I would also think that the elimination of deadly sicknesses by experimentation on mere rats is quite worth it.
And again... who cares about what Rats feel?
Originally posted by Arcana
Oh and the fact that they can cause serious problems never occurred to you?Ever heard of the "Black Death"? It was deadly disease spread in the 14th century... by guess what? Rats. Of course back then sanitation was next to nothing and medicine was a relative joke. The point is that they are filthy disgusting creatures. I would also think that the elimination of deadly sicknesses by experimentation on mere rats is quite worth it.
And again... who cares about what Rats feel?
It was the fleas on the rats that spread it....Wasn't it?
Originally posted by autumn dreams
Would you also say 'It's only a kitten, or it's only a puppy'? A rat is an animal. Rats feel pain. Rats were not put here for people to experiement with.
And if it would save hundreds of thousands of people, then yes. Yes I would.
Originally posted by Darth Macabre
And if it would save hundreds of thousands of people, then yes. Yes I would.
If killing humans could save millions of human lives, would be okay about that? Of course not, because humans are so precious, and animals are just worthless creature designed purely to be treated like garbage.
Originally posted by autumn dreams
If killing humans could save millions of human lives, would be okay about that? Of course not, because humans are so precious, and animals are just worthless creature designed purely to be treated like garbage.
Yes, I would be okay...If those people that died would save millions more then it's a sacrifice that must be paid... You can't gain anything with out sacrificing.
If my death would save countless of people, then by all means kill me now.
Call me whatever you want...I just happen to always look at the greater spectrum.
I don't know how it is that people think that its the same to experiment on animals as people. No matter what point of view you take that just can't be the case. In Judeo-Christian thought men were made stewards over the animals. That means that they are here for our use, and we must take care of them when we aren't using them. From a Darwinian perspective homo sapiens are the most evolved form of life on earth and ensuring our survival is paramount to this paradigm. In the darwinian world other creatures have to die to keep the fittest species alive.
The only people who have a case of arguing against animal experimentation are the hindus, since they think the animals could have once been people. But even then you must recognize that by saving lives those animals might have a better chance of their next life being a step up in the karmic scene.
So Autumn dreams, Why do you think that humans and animals are equal? I believe that all men are created equal, not that all members of the kingdom animalia are created equal.
Originally posted by autumn dreams
Would you also say 'It's only a kitten, or it's only a puppy'? A rat is an animal. Rats feel pain. Rats were not put here for people to experiement with.
Originally posted by autumn dreams
If killing humans could save millions of human lives, would be okay about that? Of course not, because humans are so precious, and animals are just worthless creature designed purely to be treated like garbage.
You're clearly delusional. Experiments are done on dogs and cats and even more intelligent animals like pigs.
Throught history humans have sacrificed their lives to help others. Medical researchers spend their lives and their time trying to help other. NO scientiest undervalues the contributions made by animals to medical research.
You were vaccinated as a child using vaccines that were developed on animals. You have not had terminal, crippling, and disfiguring diseases because of animals. Maybe you should respect what medecine and animlas have done for you...instead of simply wishing away thier sacrifices to let you have a healthy life.
Originally posted by autumn dreams
Would you also say 'It's only a kitten, or it's only a puppy'? A rat is an animal. Rats feel pain. Rats were not put here for people to experiement with.
As was mentioned earlier, to save human lives yes. I'm not advocating the pointless, deliberate torture of an animal. I'm no fan of increasing the human population on this planet. There are already too many of us. However, to improve the quality of life for those that are here, I think that animal testing is a needed evil. I'm not saying rats or any other animal were "put" here for us to use as experiment fodder, but it's a happy coincidence they can be used in such a manner. But, I'm not sure animals were "put" here for us to eat. Are you a vegitarian.
Originally posted by Alliance
OH! 😕Or you just liked what I said 😄
Maybe. Though really it is just because I don't reply fast enough. I hit "quote" go of and do something else or type to much, and by the time I post "submit" others might have responded already. The down side of multi-tasking.
Of course it is ok if I like what the other person has said, and I like what you said, and agree entirely.
Would you also say 'It's only a kitten, or it's only a puppy'? A rat is an animal. Rats feel pain. Rats were not put here for people to experiement with.
Yes, it has already been said. Such animals are experimented on, and treated just as humanly as rats. And do you know there are places where they are eaten?
I still see that as an important consideration - the animals are contributing, and often better cared for here, then they are in things like the food industry, or the pest extermination industry - it is erroneous to act like said animals are treated cruelly here and like princes in the rest of the world.
So I say yes, it is justified, if it is done humanely (which it is) - ultimately the food chain as it were has put us on top, and by way of research these animals can contribute enormously to medical science and potentially one day save and improve countless lives, and the findings may even help animal species themselves one day when the full potential is realised.
Originally posted by docb77
So Autumn dreams, Why do you think that humans and animals are equal?
I don't think they are equal, as such. I think that animals deserve more respect, is all. We don't keep humans in cages to test our drugs on, so why do this to an animal? If we did it to humans we'd be blasted because 'it's cruel and sick'. But with an animal, no one seems to care. People think 'So what? It's only a rat/rabbit/puppy/kitten'. Animals deserve more respect than this.
Originally posted by Alliance
You were vaccinated as a child using vaccines that were developed on animals. You have not had terminal, crippling, and disfiguring diseases because of animals.
Have you seen a bunny rabbit with chicken pox, or measles? No-so why test drugs on animals that will cure an illness the animal will never get? Why not test drugs meant for HUMANS on HUMANS?
What about cosmetics? Have you ever seen a puppy dog apply lipstick or lipbalm? Have you ever seen a rat use dishwashing detergent? These products are tested on animals-purfumes are put in the animals eyes, because a precious human might be so stupid as to spray it in their eyes and have a reaction. HUMANS use lipstick and HUMANS wash dishes, so test these cosmetics and household cleaners on HUMANS-don't inflict pain on an animal, especially when they won't even use a detergent.
Originally posted by autumn dreamsBecause humans and animals are not equal, you said so yourself. Because animal models are an important part of confirming theory in practice, and determining safety for humans.
I don't think they are equal, as such. I think that animals deserve more respect, is all. We don't keep humans in cages to test our drugs on, so why do this to an animal?
Originally posted by autumn dreamsThe animals are treated respectfully. You are generalising because you clearly know nothing of the scientific process. I used an animal today.
If we did it to humans we'd be blasted because 'it's cruel and sick'. But with an animal, no one seems to care. People think 'So what? It's only a rat/rabbit/puppy/kitten'. Animals deserve more respect than this.
Do you eat meat?
Have you worn leather?
Do you eat eggs and are they free range?
Have you ever taken a medicinal drug?
Originally posted by autumn dreamsIdiocy. Are you volunteering?
Have you seen a bunny rabbit with chicken pox, or measles? No-so why test drugs on animals that will cure an illness the animal will never get? Why not test drugs meant for HUMANS on HUMANS?
Originally posted by autumn dreamsWhat do commercial cosmetics have to do with medical research? Absolutely nothing, that's what.
What about cosmetics? Have you ever seen a puppy dog apply lipstick or lipbalm? Have you ever seen a rat use dishwashing detergent? These products are tested on animals-purfumes are put in the animals eyes, because a precious human might be so stupid as to spray it in their eyes and have a reaction. HUMANS use lipstick and HUMANS wash dishes, so test these cosmetics and household cleaners on HUMANS-don't inflict pain on an animal, especially when they won't even use a detergent.