Originally posted by Joseph_Kerr
Yet Elohiem in Hebrew when speaking of God uses the singular. Yet more proof of the Trinity. Hear O Yisrael, Yahweh our Elohiem, Yahweh is one.
No, it does not.
'elohiymDefinition
(plural)
1 rulers, judges
2 divine ones
3 angels
4 gods
It is the plural form of
'elowahhDefinition
1 God
2 false god
Originally posted by Joseph_Kerr
YES ELOHIEM IS PLURAL....I'm not freakin brain dead.... BUT whenever Elohiem is referred to the God of Israel it is surrounded by context in the singular verb. Since you are an expert on Hebrew you would know that.
I apologize for the delayed response, researching your statement required more time than many posts. I believe I have adequately studied the issue to respond to your statement.
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I am not an expert on Hebrew. To verify your claim I referred to the Bible reference and commentaries used by the website Heartlight's Search God's Word which is a non-Mormon Bible reference. I am using reference from Genesis 1 to study your claim.
I studied Genesis 1:1 in particular. I believe that if your claim holds true then it should hold true on the first verse.
I found reference that would support your statement, as well as refute it somewhat.
Gill's Exposition
The word used is "Elohim", which some derive from another, which signifies power, creation being an act of almighty power.
Jamieson, Fausset, Brown
God--the name of the Supreme Being, signifying in Hebrew, "Strong," "Mighty." It is expressive of omnipotent power; and by its use here in the plural form, is obscurely taught at the opening of the Bible, a doctrine clearly revealed in other parts of it, namely, that though God is one, there is a plurality of persons in the Godhead--Father, Son, and Spirit, who were engaged in the creative work
Wesley's Explanatory Notes
The Hebrew word is Elohim; which (1.) seems to mean The Covenant God, being derived from a word that signifies to swear. (2.) The plurality of persons in the Godhead, Father, Son, and Holy Ghost. The plural name of God in Hebrew, which speaks of him as many
After reading the verse, comparing definitions of terms in the verse, and studying the commentaries I came to the conclusion that the singular context is probably correct. The Bible often states that God and Christ are one. Mormons interpret this as one in purpose and direction. The use of the singular could be in reference to the group as one in purpose and direction. Also, I believe that the statements I quoted from the commentaries can be used to support the Mormon view on the subject. These commentaries did go on to support Trinitarian belief, following these statements, but did not offer support for that interpretation.
The verse does not provide strong enough evidence to deny the Godhead as Mormons believe. It also does not deny the Trinitarian belief either. I doubt that study into other instances will provide evidence that is any different than what I discovered with this verse.
Originally posted by The Omega
Well, as far as I know (and far from being it to claim I know everything) Hebrew words that ends on "im" are plural.
So in the beginning Elohim created Shemaim and Åraetz (spelling may be wrong). So technically in the beginning the gods created the heavens and Earth... yes?
Yes.
The issue addressed Joseph Kerr is that given Trinitarian belief God could have been referred to in the plural due to his dissociative personality disorder.
* in the Bible, there is a Godhead: the Father, the Christ and the Holy Spirit... Matthew 28:19...
* in the beginning, before all creation, there exists only the Father and Christ... Proverbs 8:22-31...
* when the Father and Christ plans to create man, then starts the creation of all things... Genesis 1:26, 1:1...
* the Father created all things... Acts 17:24, I Corinthians 8:6...
* all things are created through Christ... John 1:3, Colossians 1:16-17...
* upon creation, the Father sent the Holy Spirit to renew the face of the earth and waters... Psalms 104:30, Genesis 1:2... 😉
Re: For Christians, is the Bible infallible?
Originally posted by Regret
For a Christian, is the Bible correct and without error? Is the text of the Bible always correct as we know it?I have had debates with people that claim that the Bible is absolutely correct, and that its words should be taken as accurate due to the Holy Spirit aiding in maintaining accuracy over the numerous writings and translation. I believe that if inaccuracies are found in the Bible the text must be used judiciously and more errors may exist, particularly in sensitive areas of doctrine.
Here are some examples of error found in the Bible. In quotes to separate them.
It really depends on what Christian religion you are looking at. Some take it as everything in there is true and anything that's not in there is false, and some think the Bible (mainly the Old Testament) is not to be taken literally, but you should look at the "moral of the story".
Originally posted by Regret
The idea that the spiritual was created prior to the physical. In reference to everything, including man.
* oh, that?
"God is a Spirit : and they that worship him must worship in spirit and truth."
John 4:24
* according to the Bible, God is a spirit...
"That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit ."
John 3:6
"For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, This day have I begotten thee ? and again, I will be to him a Father, And he shall be to me a Son?"
Hebrews 1:5
* and since the Father (who is a spirit) gave birth to Christ... Christ is also a spirit...
"And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul."
Genesis 2:7
* after the Father formed man from the dust, the Father breathed His spirit into the man...
"(For my life is yet whole in me, And the spirit of God is in my nostrils);"
Job 27:3
* the breath of life is the spirit...
* and the wholeness of that being - body, spirit and soul - is the wholeness of a human being...
* yes, spirits exists before physical, according to the Bible... the Father and Christ exists first...
"But of which of the angels hath he said at any time, Sit thou on my right hand, Till I make thine enemies the footstool of thy feet?
Are they not all ministering spirits , sent forth to do service for the sake of them that shall inherit salvation?"
Hebrews 1:13-14
* all angels are spirits, and they are created first before man... 😉
Originally posted by Justbyfaith
"Whoever transgresses and does not ABIDE in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. he who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son. If anyone comes to you and does not bring this doctrine, do not receive him into your house nor greet him; for he who greets him shares in his evil deeds."2 John 1:9-11
I thought you were supposed to "turn the other cheek". And "Love thy neighbor" as well as "love they enemy" 🙄
And what about "He without sin cast the first stone" and "we are all sinners" and all that BS?
Jesus has said all these things. Are you going to call Jesus Christ a LIAR?
Originally posted by Justbyfaith
"But even if we, OR AN ANGEL from heaven. preach any other Gospel (Message) to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed."Galatians 1:8
Then what was the Gospel of Tomas? What about the other dozens of Gospels that were out there? Why have an organized selection and discrimination of one text and another?
The Bible also contradicts itself numerously, and you fail to prove otherwise. You fail to even address this fact. By your presented quotes, the Bible curses itself due to its contradiction of message. 😉