The X-Men vs The New Avengers

Originally posted by riceroost
Wrong.

Wolverine was clearly and obviously not healed When Cap hit him.

If Wolverine had been healed there is no way on god's green earth a single shot from Cap's shield (let alone 30 shots) would put him out.

Wolverine says right before Cap hits him something to the effect of:

"This is the worst I've ever been hurt."

That includes the many months it took him to recover from the Reaver's torture, when his healing factor bottomed out and his strength and speed dropped to near human levels because of how badly he had been tortured. Deathbird couldn't believe how weak he had become.

That also includes when Magneto ripped out his skeleton and his healing factor dissapeared.

Wolverine was by no means healed in EOTS.

Because it couldnt be bad writing or anything like that 🙄

Avengers r getting a little underestimated here.....Shadowcat taking Ironman?

It's a possibility but probably not that likely considering how !extreme! Iron Man is now.

Originally posted by Wynndar
Avengers r getting a little underestimated here.....Shadowcat taking Ironman?

Indeed ... I bet shes only depicted as the 'unstoppable intangible power house' by the ever so talanted Chris Claremont. 🙄 How can she be im-material, and able to physically harm at the same time? Its a complete contradiction of her powers. Its like Iceman burning people to death ! 🙂

She can 'harm' Iron Man because her phasing disrupts electronics adn has always been depicted as such. She can drag people into objects. But she wouldn't be able to catch Iron Man. He's too extreme.

Originally posted by Sixth_Winged
What? 🤨 what do you mean force fields? She doesn't have any. Unless your count wind spinning around her body as force fields.

And saying Ironman would just stay there and wait till Kitty phases though him is quite unlikely. He has info on almost every superhero and considering his flight speed and can has sensors that could detect just about anyone and any energy signature. He could just avoid her long enough for him to analyze her powers like he did against the collective and how to affect her. She has never shown flight speed nearing his and fastball's quite useless now with his reflex from his extremis upgrade.

Him being distracted from fighting fighting storm is very doubtful considering how fast he can attack now and the fact that Storm is only a streetleveller in durability.

Kitty flies at a speed of 25,000 miles/24 hours or just over 1,000 miles per hour. When she "flies" she phases with everything, so the earth spins underneath her and she flies in the opposite direction. The Earth revolves at just over 1,000 mph. It happened in X-treme X-men (don't have the issue # on me now, at work again).

She can most definitely speed-blitz/sneak up on him fast enough without any sort of help from her teammates. And she can do that from the get go. No acceleration necessary. She can just bolt right for him from the very beginning. And since Tony isn't a mind-reader, he'll be completely caught off-guard.

She will get him. And once he's down, the New Avengers go down hard.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
She can 'harm' Iron Man because her phasing disrupts electronics adn has always been depicted as such. She can drag people into objects. But she wouldn't be able to catch Iron Man. He's too [b]extreme. [/B]

I like what you've done there; ... Extermis ..... Extreme ! Hilarious 🙄

I was referring to other characters. I pointed out to 'Metal thingy' that if she intended to hurt another avenger, Tony would be able to use one of his various suits to target her from above. I was then informed that she's is able to attack when intangible. 😕 Which i believe is ****ING ridiculous. Although probably true, when you considering the general crap that has been found in the X-books since the late 80's. 🙂

Catching Tony will be too hard for Kitty cause of the exremeness of IM. But lets's say IM is fighting Storm and Colossus fastballs her up there? Kitty has shorted IM out before and she also shorted out Nimrods once before.

I know I'm hilarious I don't need you to point it out. Frankly CC may be a senile old coot these days but Iron Man flying to the sun and back is just as stupid and it's not half as ridiculous as soulvision.

Originally posted by R.O.T. Yahman
I like what you've done there; ... Extermis ..... Extreme ! Hilarious 🙄

I was referring to other characters. I pointed out to 'Metal thingy' that if she intended to hurt another avenger, Tony would be able to use one of his various suits to target her from above. I was then informed that she's is able to attack when intangible. 😕 Which i believe is ****ING ridiculous. Although probably true, when you considering the general crap that has been found in the X-books since the late 80's. 🙂

...'Metal Thingy'? My screen name really isn't all that difficult to read, is it?

Gah. Shadowcat has ALWAYS been able to do that to electronics. Of COURSE, she needs to be tangible in order to actually touch any other kind of opponent that doesn't deal with electrical components. But when it comes to electronics, she just phases through them. Her scattered atoms apparently disrupt the electrical processes and short them.

Originally posted by Metalmanx
Kitty flies at a speed of 25,000 miles/24 hours or just over 1,000 miles per hour. When she "flies" she phases with everything, so the earth spins underneath her and she flies in the opposite direction. The Earth revolves at just over 1,000 mph. It happened in X-treme X-men (don't have the issue # on me now, at work again).

She can most definitely speed-blitz/sneak up on him fast enough without any sort of help from her teammates. And she can do that from the get go. No acceleration necessary. She can just bolt right for him from the very beginning. And since Tony isn't a mind-reader, he'll be completely caught off-guard.

She will get him. And once he's down, the New Avengers go down hard.

😆 please oh please show us any scan or proof at all that 25,000 miles. I'm sorry if i don't take this "I don't remember the issue and just take your word for it" deal. 25,000 really? That certainly didn't make sense if you try looking at the battles she's been through. Heck, with that speed she wouldn't even need to be fastballed in Astonishing by Colossus since she can reach her enemy herself.

And even if it did happen, it's a one time deal we know writers in the future and the present, will and have ignored and thus unusable. It also contradicts other fight's she's been through other on that one where that speed could've been quite useful.

And once again folks, look at the scans showing his(tony's) reflex speed from the latter pages. He has speed enough steer away people flying at him in midair if they pose a threat on contact like Yelena on NA annual.

Originally posted by Sixth_Winged
😆 please oh please show us any scan or proof at all that 25,000 miles. I'm sorry if i don't take this "I don't remember the issue and just take your word for it" deal. 25,000 really? That certainly didn't make sense if you try looking at the battles she's been through. Heck, with that speed she wouldn't even need to be fastballed in Astonishing by Colossus since she can reach her enemy herself. And even if it did happen, it's a one time deal we know writers in the future will and have ignored and thus unusable.

Why would I make that up? I literally have the issue at home. I'm at work right now though, so I have no idea what issue number it is. If you want, I'll try to look it up for you, if it'll ease your mind and all.

And, if you read that more correctly, you'd see that I didn't say that she flies at 25,000 mph. I said she flies at just over 1,000 mph, or 25,000 miles/24 hours.

She did it in X-treme X-men. And, according to Xmarks, also more than once in Excalibur. So, it can be and has been done.

X-treme X-men #27.

Originally posted by Metalmanx
Why would I make that up? I literally have the issue at home. I'm at work right now though, so I have no idea what issue number it is. If you want, I'll try to look it up for you, if it'll ease your mind and all.

And, if you read that more correctly, you'd see that I didn't say that she flies at 25,000 mph. I said she flies at just over 1,000 mph, or 25,000 miles/24 hours.

She did it in X-treme X-men. And, according to Xmarks, also more than once in Excalibur. So, it can be and has been done.

Then i guess scans would be useful right now. And i didn't say you made it up, i'm saying i don't buy people telling giving out information and lacking references to give. You could have misinterpreted it wrong or got it inaccurately or for whatever other reasons. My reasons, are those showings are questionable when it compares with Kitty performance in most battles i've seen her fight in.

Originally posted by Sixth_Winged
Then i guess scans would be useful right now. And i didn't say you made it up, i'm saying i don't buy people telling giving out information and lacking references to give. You could have misinterpreted it wrong or got it inaccurately.

Okay, understandable. My apologies. I'm just used to people spazzing and biting my head off on this forum. I'm more surprised when a level-headed person debates with me and uses logic and such.

So basically, kudos to you. I actually do have the scans at home on my computer, since I used them as proof before. When I get home, and if I remember (I have a HORRIBLE memor), I'll post em. I think I'll remember.

it's ok. I'll look that issue up, probably download it.

oh and btw. how does she fly in the opposite direction the earth is spinning through?

Originally posted by Sixth_Winged
it's ok. I'll look that issue up, probably download it.

oh and btw. how does she fly in the opposite direction the earth is spinning through?

I'm afraid I don't follow.

Originally posted by Metalmanx
I'm afraid I don't follow.

Sorry. i said it wrong. What I meant was; how does she fly in the same direction the world is spinning? If she gains speed since the world spins and she flies of to the opposite direction thus covering more distance, what happens if she goes along on the same direction instead?

That would mean if she was going along with the flow, the opposite effect happens and while she's trying to fly at that direction, the earth does the same and makes her cover less distance. It's like walking upwards and escalator going downwards and vice versa.

That would mean she has 50/50 chance assuming her peak speed could make her speed enough to catch ironman depending on where they stand. See where i'm getting at?

Originally posted by Sixth_Winged
Sorry. i said it wrong. What I meant was; how does she fly in the same direction the world is spinning? If she gains speed since the world spins and she flies of to the opposite direction thus covering more distance, what happens if she goes along on the same direction instead?

That would mean if she was going along with the flow, the opposite effect happens and while she's trying to fly at that direction, the earth does the same and makes her cover less distance. It's like walking upwards and escalator going downwards and vice versa.

That would mean she has 50/50 chance assuming her peak speed could make her speed enough to catch ironman depending on where they stand. See where i'm getting at?

I do now, yes. That was structurally better, heh.

Yes, I suppose you are right though. Though, she can still fly in the same direction as the Earth is spinning. Just not NEARLY as fast. With Kitty's powers comes the ability to walk on air. That's how she's able to rise out of the ground the way she does. She can still fly on her own power, just not as fast. So, she could gain speed using the Earth-phasing technique, and then use her own ability to catch Tony.

But yes, I understand what you're saying.

Originally posted by Sixth_Winged
What? 🤨 what do you mean force fields? She doesn't have any. Unless your count wind spinning around her body as force fields.

no...she has two types of force-fields: electrical ones and pressure domes.

And saying Ironman would just stay there and wait till Kitty phases though him is quite unlikely. He has info on almost every superhero and considering his flight speed and can has sensors that could detect just about anyone and any energy signature. He could just avoid her long enough for him to analyze her powers like he did against the collective and how to affect her. She has never shown flight speed nearing his and fastball's quite useless now with his reflex from his extremis upgrade.

when being attacked by storm and cyclops...it's going to be hard for him to avoid kitty. he's getting attacked at all sides.

Him being distracted from fighting fighting storm is very doubtful

no it's not...history proves that she's more than a match for him.