Originally posted by srankmissingnin
I can argue that BUT I will say he is compeat for the number one spot. At very lest he is number three which is still much better the Batman's postion in DC's top twenty.
Cliches, cliches, cliches. Batman's feats would suggest that he's at least the equal to Batgirl and Shiva.
Originally posted by batdude123
Yes, Batman is top tier. All these fights have gone either way. The fight you are talking about where Batman and Robin fought Shiva was in 1988. Batman has since gotten the better of her as well. Cass and Batman have fought and Batman did get the better of her. Although, Batman and Cass are pretty equal. People just go by cliche and state that Batman isn't equal or even close to the Dragon/Shiva/Cain level, however his feats would say otherwise. 😬
So Batman got the better of Shiva once in 88 with Robin helping him. Shiva's skill has increased leaps and bounds ahead of Bruce's. When has Batman got the better of her since then? Even if Shiva in the Public Enemies story line wasn't mind controlled (which she was) the fight just becomes a write of do to PIS. Batman could never have beaten Shiva that easily if she was in her fighting best, that is fact. Either she was mind controlled or it was a massive pile of crap... your choice.
Batman has never gotten the better of Cass. It appeared that he got the better of her for a moment then when he started to lecture Cass he started coughing up blood. Did you not notice that? Or did you just think "well I guess Batman came down with a touch of lung cancer. I'm sure it had nothing to do with his spar with Cass." Why do you think she had that smirk on her face? Because Batman thought he won... but he didn't. The other "fight" Cass was only trying to kiss Bruce and still he was on defence the entire "fight" and using gadgets. Why? Because in hand to hand he would get steam rolled.
Shiva is better the Batman
Richard Dragon is better then Batman
Cassandra Cain is better then Batman
Connar Hawke is better then Batman
Bronze Tiger is better the Batman.
Could Bruce beat them in a fight? Sure, so long as he has his belt with him. Could Bruce beat them in hand to hand? Not likely.
Originally posted by srankmissingninand cap would slap them all down.
So Batman got the better of Shiva once in 88 with Robin helping him. Shiva's skill has increased leaps and bounds ahead of Bruce's. When has Batman got the better of her since then? Even if Shiva in the Public Enemies story line wasn't mind controlled (which she was) the fight just becomes a write of do to PIS. Batman could never have beaten Shiva that easily if she was in her fighting best, that is fact. Either she was mind controlled or it was a massive pile of crap... your choice.Batman has never gotten the better of Cass. It appeared that he got the better of her for a moment then when he started to lecture Cass he started coughing up blood. Did you not notice that? Or did you just think "well I guess Batman came down with a touch of lung cancer. I'm sure it had nothing to do with his spar with Cass." Why do you think she had that smirk on her face? Because Batman thought he won... but he didn't. The other "fight" Cass was only trying to kiss Bruce and still he was on defence the entire "fight" and using gadgets. Why? Because in hand to hand he would get steam rolled.
Shiva is better the Batman
Richard Dragon is better then Batman
Cassandra Cain is better then Batman
Connar Hawke is better then Batman
Bronze Tiger is better the Batman.
Could Bruce beat them in a fight? Sure, so long as he has his belt with him. Could Bruce beat them in hand to hand? Not likely.
The closest thing in Marvel to, oh lets say Richard Dragon is Shang Chi. A character who like his father knows every martial art on earth and has been training almost since he was born. The guy has pawned half a dozen monks at the same time, all of which were also "masters of every fighting style known to man." On top of being the equal of Richard Dragon (who is Batman's superior remember) he also has the ability to amp up his stats to compete on the same level as Spider-man. Now when Zartan the Weapons Master wanted to earn his rep back after Shang Chi beat him he said he need to go beat someone who was superior to Shang Chi. Ten guesses who he challenged? That's right Cap! (Oh, and later when he decided he really need to get his rep back and need to challenge someone superior to Cap, he challenged Wolverine!)
Originally posted by srankmissingninhahahahaha wolverine superior to cap. that guys a douche(zatran)
The closest thing in Marvel to, oh lets say Richard Dragon is Shang Chi. A character who like his father knows every martial art on earth and has been training almost since he was born. The guy has pawned half a dozen monks at the same time, all of which were also "masters of every fighting style known to man." On top of being the equal of Richard Dragon (who is Batman's superior remember) he also has the ability to amp up his stats to compete on the same level as Spider-man. Now when Zartan the Weapons Master wanted to earn his rep back after Shang Chi beat him he said he need to go beat someone who was superior to Shang Chi. Ten guesses who he challenged? That's right Cap! (Oh, and later when he decided he really need to get his rep back and need to challenge someone superior to Cap, he challenged Wolverine!)
Originally posted by srankmissingninI've debunked you saying these very things 3 or 4 times in other threads now, how many times do you think people will fall for it?
So Batman got the better of Shiva once in 88 with Robin helping him. Shiva's skill has increased leaps and bounds ahead of Bruce's. When has Batman got the better of her since then? Even if Shiva in the Public Enemies story line wasn't mind controlled (which she was) the fight just becomes a write of do to PIS. Batman could never have beaten Shiva that easily if she was in her fighting best, that is fact. Either she was mind controlled or it was a massive pile of crap... your choice.Batman has never gotten the better of Cass. It appeared that he got the better of her for a moment then when he started to lecture Cass he started coughing up blood. Did you not notice that? Or did you just think "well I guess Batman came down with a touch of lung cancer. I'm sure it had nothing to do with his spar with Cass." Why do you think she had that smirk on her face? Because Batman thought he won... but he didn't. The other "fight" Cass was only trying to kiss Bruce and still he was on defence the entire "fight" and using gadgets. Why? Because in hand to hand he would get steam rolled.
Shiva is better the Batman
Richard Dragon is better then Batman
Cassandra Cain is better then Batman
Connar Hawke is better then Batman
Bronze Tiger is better the Batman.
Could Bruce beat them in a fight? Sure, so long as he has his belt with him. Could Bruce beat them in hand to hand? Not likely.
When Batman 'coughed up blood a few panels later', was a few panels after she went wide eyed and chalk white as he had a clear killing blow on her... his only attack move in the confrontation went clear through her offense...defense.. and had a kill strike. If I remember right, he did the entire confrontation with one hand, though he may have blocked with the other hand once.. and only once, if he did at all.
Bronze Tiger surprised Batman in the first fight, got the jump on him and overwhelmed him. In the next, a straight up fight Batman had the upper hand until he got tranquilized.
Connor Hawke is not in Batman's league, his time in the JLA can show you that. One might even say that Ollie is a better fighter, though not better Martial Artist. One or two decent showings from Connor doesn't hold much wieght against Batman's millions.
Batman's beaten Shiva.
Batgirls beaten Shiva.
Batman's beaten Batgirl.
So he's beaten Shiva, and her better.
Batman and Richard Dragon was a stalemate plain and simple. They stopped before a superior could be identified.
Shit, even TIM DRAKE got the better of Cassie just last week, in a straight up hand to hand fight he had her on the ropes most of the fight before she RAN.
Originally posted by Juntai
I've debunked you saying these very things 3 or 4 times in other threads now, how many times do you think people will fall for it?When Batman 'coughed up blood a few panels later', was a few panels after she went wide eyed and chalk white as he had a clear killing blow on her... his only attack move in the confrontation went clear through her offense...defense.. and had a kill strike. If I remember right, he did the entire confrontation with one hand, though he may have blocked with the other hand once.. and only once, if he did at all.
Bronze Tiger surprised Batman in the first fight, got the jump on him and overwhelmed him. In the next, a straight up fight Batman had the upper hand until he got tranquilized.
Connor Hawke is not in Batman's league, his time in the JLA can show you that. One might even say that Ollie is a better fighter, though not better Martial Artist. One or two decent showings from Connor doesn't hold much wieght against Batman's millions.
Batman's beaten Shiva.
Batgirls beaten Shiva.
Batman's beaten Batgirl.
So he's beaten Shiva, and her better.Batman and Richard Dragon was a stalemate plain and simple. They stopped before a superior could be identified.
Shit, even TIM DRAKE got the better of Cassie just last week, in a straight up hand to hand fight he had her on the ropes most of the fight before she RAN.
Thank you very much Juntai. ✅ That saved me the trouble of rebuttling. 😉
Originally posted by Juntai
I've debunked you saying these very things 3 or 4 times in other threads now, how many times do you think people will fall for it?When Batman 'coughed up blood a few panels later', was a few panels after she went wide eyed and chalk white as he had a clear killing blow on her... his only attack move in the confrontation went clear through her offense...defense.. and had a kill strike. If I remember right, he did the entire confrontation with one hand, though he may have blocked with the other hand once.. and only once, if he did at all.
Bronze Tiger surprised Batman in the first fight, got the jump on him and overwhelmed him. In the next, a straight up fight Batman had the upper hand until he got tranquilized.
Connor Hawke is not in Batman's league, his time in the JLA can show you that. One might even say that Ollie is a better fighter, though not better Martial Artist. One or two decent showings from Connor doesn't hold much wieght against Batman's millions.
Batman's beaten Shiva.
Batgirls beaten Shiva.
Batman's beaten Batgirl.
So he's beaten Shiva, and her better.Batman and Richard Dragon was a stalemate plain and simple. They stopped before a superior could be identified.
Shit, even TIM DRAKE got the better of Cassie just last week, in a straight up hand to hand fight he had her on the ropes most of the fight before she RAN.
*Brain... exploding... BAH!*
Okay... this is getting frustrating (I'm sure you and Batdude feel the same) as we seem to all be saying the exact same things over and over again. My rebuttals to your post are exactly the same as my post that you are rebutted against... and all of your rebuttals are all the same. The same facts just being thrown out over and over again.
I say "Now wait a second. Batman didn't stalemate Case, she got the better of him thats why he was coughing up blood."
You say "Batman did stalemate Case "insert nonsensical explanation of why Batman is coughing up Blood."
At which time I reply. "Now wait a second. Batman didn't stalemate Case, she got the better of him thats why he was coughing up blood."
...and so on into infinite.
Same thing is true for the fight where Batman "stalemated" Richard Dragon (never mind the fact that he was already in a fight and trying to avoid a confrontation with Batman. Or his "win" over Shiva (Where she was almost certainly under the influence of mind control). Or the other fight between Batman and Cass... the one where he was on the run the whole fight, using gadgets while the whole time Cass was only trying to kiss him.
Oh! I new thing to argue about! Tim Drake didn't get the better of Cass, he she was handling him easily. Impressive showing for Tim even considering he was going all out and Cass was hardly putting in any effort at all.
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
*Brain... exploding... BAH!*Okay... this is getting frustrating (I'm sure you and Batdude feel the same) as we seem to all be saying the exact same things over and over again. My rebuttals to your post are exactly the same as my post that you are rebutted against... and all of your rebuttals are all the same. The same facts just being thrown out over and over again.
I say "Now wait a second. Batman didn't stalemate Case, she got the better of him thats why he was coughing up blood."
You say "Batman did stalemate Case "insert nonsensical explanation of why Batman is coughing up Blood."
At which time I reply. "Now wait a second. Batman didn't stalemate Case, she got the better of him thats why he was coughing up blood."
...and so on into infinite.
Same thing is true for the fight where Batman "stalemated" Richard Dragon (never mind the fact that he was already in a fight and trying to avoid a confrontation with Batman. Or his "win" over Shiva (Where she was almost certainly under the influence of mind control). Or the other fight between Batman and Cass... the one where he was on the run the whole fight, using gadgets while the whole time Cass was only trying to kiss him.
Oh! I new thing to argue about! Tim Drake didn't get the better of Cass, he she was handling him easily. Impressive showing for Tim even considering he was going all out and Cass was hardly putting in any effort at all.
The fight with Cass Batman wasn't even trying that hard. He was mainly using one hand the whole time when fighting her, and even then he managed to get a killing blow in there. Even though Bats coughed up blood, he was clearly not trying his hardest when fighting against her as evidenced by the fact that he was fighting with one arm most of the time.
Batman has defeated Lady Shiva. PERIOD. Whether she was mind-controlled or not, still remains to be speculation. However, for the sake of arguement, let's just say that she WAS mind-controlled. She was still striking him with lightning fast punches which he blocked, and then procceeded to knock her ass out with just one punch. Although, Batman and Shiva have fought outside of that and she has never beaten him. He has gotten the upperhand in their other fights as well. Also, one time Batman turned to face her, and she just straight up ran away from the fight. Gee, I wonder why??? Sounds to me like she was scared.
Bronze Tiger did overwhelm Bats when they first fought. However, BT surprised him when he appeared so it was more like an ambush. Second time, Batman was very much aware of what was going on, and he got the better of him before he was tranqed.
The Dragon and Batman fight was a stalemate, pure and simple. Batman stopped before they actually started to get into it because Dragon explained what was going on. It wasn't like Batman wanted to kill Dragon or anything, he just wanted to take him into the police station. Dragon was still trying to defend himself from being taken in. However, the fight remains a stalemate.
With that said, Captain America takes this one 6-7/10.