Count Nefaria vs Captian Marvel

Started by Howard_Jones5 pages

So, his shots are second to Thor in Beta's book. That's high friggin honors.

Originally posted by Howard_Jones
So, his shots are second to Thor in Beta's book. That's high friggin honors.
I don't see how you equate, "far worse", "and second to Thor" here?

Thanks bigbran. Hopefully that will stop the nonesense of Namor one-shotting BRB.

BRB is a f*cking beast.

Originally posted by bigbran
I don't see how you equate, "far worse", "and second to Thor" here?

In Asgard speak, that's essentially what it means.

Is it bad that I can translate that?

Originally posted by snoopdogg
Thanks bigbran. Hopefully that will stop the nonesense of Namor one-shotting BRB.

BRB is a f*cking beast.

Damn right he is.

Originally posted by Howard_Jones
In Asgard speak, that's essentially what it means.

Is it bad that I can translate that?

Damn right he is.

Basically what BRB was saying is that Thor hits FAR harder than Namor does as it should be.

Originally posted by snoopdogg
Basically what BRB was saying is that Thor hits FAR harder than Namor does as it should be.

Similar, but not quite. More or less it seemed like he's just keeping his pride in line. He's worse about it than Thor is.

I would just like to take the time and point out that while in his own comic, Thor not only owned but killed the Thing and The Hulk at one time. I would also like to point out that Thor had one arm, no odin power , and no Mjolnir.

Originally posted by snoopdogg
Thanks bigbran. Hopefully that will stop the nonesense of Namor one-shotting BRB.

BRB is a f*cking beast.

Your welcome.

Indeed.

Originally posted by Soujaboy
I would just like to take the time and point out that while in his own comic, Thor not only owned but killed the Thing and The Hulk at one time. I would also like to point out that Thor had one arm, no odin power , and no Mjolnir.
Oh ya, forgot about that.

Also, I would like to point out that I got lied to a while ago (not from anyone here).

Does anyone remember the scan of Thor blasting Thanos, and completely wiping him out?
Like, Thor owned Thanos!

Ya, I just read the book, and it turns out, that Thanos was unaffected, two pages after.

Ya, so someone posted that, I remember, that Thor beat Thanos.

It turns out he lied.

Completely off topic, but I can't find that thread, so I posted it here.

Originally posted by bigbran
Maybe, maybe not, but his skills/powers sure are.

Fortunately, skills and powers aren’t what we’re debating here.
Originally posted by bigbran
Yes, but, you said they stalemate/Thor loses most of the time, so I'm using another example.

Use some common sense buddy. You know full well, the two aren’t the same thing.
\
Originally posted by bigbran
Ya, but Hulk still had the momentum to keep moving even after the asteroid was destroyed.

Sure. Doesn’t all of a sudden discredit this as a strength feat though.
Originally posted by bigbran
Just saying...
If he can blow a universe destoying attack away, then he should be able to fillet people like Ben Grimm (since you don't liek the Wolverine one).

Because he’s not always portrayed at those levels, just as Superman is hardly portrayed at “solar-system” moving strength.
Originally posted by bigbran
Good for him, how many feats does he have to prove it? Cause I sure as hell, know Thor isn't going to be tore apart like that (other than that one time with Hulk... ewww).

Oh, so he only broke a herald levels barrier? I remember Bannerless Hulk, not being able to break a shield.


1. None. He was just stated to be a little stronger than Thor.
2. That Bannerless Hulk was dying. Apparently he wasn’t as strong as Savage Hulk was here.
Originally posted by bigbran
I thought it was Stan Lee, or someone on that level.

Don’t know where you heard that. It wasn’t any one of the sort.
Originally posted by bigbran
I never claimed Superman's strength to be infinite, now did I?
I also just put it out there.

Just as I put this out there.

Keep in mind, I never claimed that Hulk literally had infinite strength; just that he has an actual feat of displaying it. It’s just another high showing that stacks up to Superman’s high showings.

Originally posted by bigbran
I mean at his normal form, right when he tranforms.

He had just transformed when he performed the matter antimatter feat.
Originally posted by bigbran
My arguement, is that he is not.

I figured. Honestly, it’s based off of poor reasoning.

Originally posted by bigbran
I said, he fought, for like two panels.
All he did though, was run through his head, which I was just putting out there.

Yeah, and you asked what has Hulk done in comparison, so I told you.

Little word of advice- if you don’t want feats, don’t ask for them.

Originally posted by bigbran
No, but I meant, an actual, mad/pissed Hulk.
You said that base Hulk was on/close that level, and it would seem that from what your saying here, that base Hulk doesn't have too many feats to put him there.

I imagine the Hulk you’re referring to is an extremely enraged version, like Mindless.

However, most of Hulk’s greatest feats have been performed when he was at general levels of anger, such as the matter antimatter feat, the asteroid, the cosmos thunderclap, the punch that lit the Dark Cosmos, and many others.

Originally posted by bigbran
Also would you put Thing at close to Superman's level? I remember Thing fighting Hulk a couple of times.

Thing has also fought Hercules, Thor, and (from what I recall) the Destroyer and done. He always holds his own against practically every one he fights.

I really don't care how strong the Hulk is. I just know he's strong enough to hang with the big gins, and that good enough for me.

Originally posted by Accel
Fortunately, skills and powers aren’t what we’re debating here.
Ok, strength wise. Thor sucks in other comics.
Seriously, Thor is portrayed as a pussy.
If we are using, Thor vs Hulk fights, then yes, they are practically equals/Thor is weaker.
In Thor comics, I'm not so sure, a normal Hulk is going to do so good.

But, if they don't even use Thor's skills/powers, then what else are they forgetting about Thor?

Originally posted by Accel
Use some common sense buddy. You know full well, the two aren’t the same thing.
\

Well, if I'm not using common sense, then how would I know this?

How about we look at it this way:
Thor was able to stalemate a Mindless Hulk, for a while, but then he loses to a slightly maddened Hulk?
Hmm... some of there fights seem to differ way too much...

Originally posted by Accel
Sure. Doesn’t all of a sudden discredit this as a strength feat though.
Never said it didn't, but it wasn't exactly all strength.
It is like Superman flying through the moon.

Originally posted by Accel
Because he’s not always portrayed at those levels, just as Superman is hardly portrayed at “solar-system” moving strength.
Or, he was only portrayed once as a universe deflecting clap...
More feats for his clap, not deflecting universe destroying attacks, or, Hulk only doing that feat once?

Originally posted by Accel
1. None. He was just stated to be a little stronger than Thor.
2. That Bannerless Hulk was dying. Apparently he wasn’t as strong as Savage Hulk was here.
Ok, but you have to admit, that Hulk isn't going to do shit like that to Thor.

Where do you get, the fact that he was weaker?
Was he all cut up, and bleeding, or was he just simply dying from the overload of gamma radiation (wasn't that it, or am I thinking of another Hulk)?

Originally posted by Accel
Don’t know where you heard that. It wasn’t any one of the sort.
It happened a while ago, didn't it?
How am I supposed to have exact memory?

It was editors stating it, and yet you argued it.

Writers also state a lot of things.

Hell, Stan Lee said that if he wrote a crossover between Hulk and Superman, he would have Hulk win.

Also, how much strength would you actually need for this feat, other than infinite?
It isn't an exact number, and it is basically implying Hulk to be on abstract levels of strength.
However, if we had someone else try and fail, we could get an estimate, of how much stronger Hulk is.

Was there anyone else who tried to do this, to compare?

Originally posted by Accel
Just as I put this out there.

Keep in mind, I never claimed that Hulk literally had infinite strength; just that he has an actual feat of displaying it. It’s just another high showing that stacks up to Superman’s high showings.

Yes, but also an implication.

But only implied? Superman is one of the most overwritten characters in comics. Beating Darkseid, beating Doomsday, those are some good strength feats.

Originally posted by Accel
He had just transformed when he performed the matter antimatter feat.
Wasn't he also gradually building up anger as he was holding them apart?

Originally posted by Accel
I figured. Honestly, it’s based off of poor reasoning.
Neat.

Originally posted by Accel
Yeah, and you asked what has Hulk done in comparison, so I told you.
Ya, and you also said that Hulk was not far behind as a normal one.

I already know that Hulk stacks up to Supes in that area when he is madder.

I just want to see how close Superman is of a normal Hulk.

Originally posted by Accel
Little word of advice- if you don’t want feats, don’t ask for them.
No, I want feats of a normal Hulk doing what Supes has done.
I never said that a mad one doesn't stack up.

Did I ever say that Hulk doesn't compare to Supes?

If I already know that a mad/pissed Hulk compares to Superman, then why are you giving me those feats?

Its all inconsistent though, Superman's strength stays the same, while Hulk goes up and down.
Quite hard to compare the two.

But at his lowest Savage Hulk form, I don't think he is nearly as strong as Superman.
Think of it this way, Hulk's power can easily double, triple, quadruple, etc, and if he was a little lower than Supes, wouldn't this mean that he can also go 4x as strong as Supes in a couple seconds?
Something I don't believe he will do like that.

He might be able to surpass Superman, but I don't think he will do it like that.
I think he would need to gradually build up anger (probably while fighting someone, cause that is how he usually gets so strong, or while being provided a challenge), to surpass Supes.

He isn't just going to say, "I'm angry", and reach Superman's level.

Am I putting this good?

Originally posted by Accel
I imagine the Hulk you’re referring to is an extremely enraged version, like Mindless.

However, most of Hulk’s greatest feats have been performed when he was at general levels of anger, such as the matter antimatter feat, the asteroid, the cosmos thunderclap, the punch that lit the Dark Cosmos, and many others.

Or a pretty mad version.

So basically, his slightly mad form, has better feats than when he is full on pissed?
A slightly mad Hulk beat Thor, near to death, in a couple of punches.
A mindless Hulk stalemated him for a while...

What ever happened to the madder Hulk gets, the stronger he gets?

Originally posted by Accel
Thing has also fought Hercules, Thor, and (from what I recall) the Destroyer and done. He always holds his own against practically every one he fights.
That he does, but you never answered the question.

Originally posted by bigbran
Ok, strength wise. Thor sucks in other comics.
Seriously, Thor is portrayed as a pussy.
If we are using, Thor vs Hulk fights, then yes, they are practically equals/Thor is weaker.
In Thor comics, I'm not so sure, a normal Hulk is going to do so good.

But, if they don't even use Thor's skills/powers, then what else are they forgetting about Thor?


They’ve fought at least twice in Thor’s title. Heck, their very first fight took place sometime in Journey into Mystery, which was basically the name of Thor’s book when it started out.

Any way, nothing else has been forgotten. Had Thor ever fought to his full potential, he’d Godblast Hulk’s ass and be done with it. In their first fight, Thor wanted to test his might against Hulk’s, so he asked Odin to allow him to fight Hulk in H2H to test it. In another fight (in Thor’s own title no less), Hulk provoked Thor to throw it away. In Defenders, they grappled and stalemated for an hour.

Generally, their fights always come down to strength vs strength.

Originally posted by bigbran
Well, if I'm not using common sense, then how would I know this?

How about we look at it this way:
Thor was able to stalemate a Mindless Hulk, for a while, but then he loses to a slightly maddened Hulk?
Hmm... some of there fights seem to differ way too much...


Of course they do. But the fact still remains that when taking into account all their fights, they are generally portrayed on equal footing with an edge to Hulk in terms of strength.
Originally posted by bigbran
Never said it didn't, but it wasn't exactly all strength.
It is like Superman flying through the moon.

That was also an impressive strength feat.
Originally posted by bigbran
Or, he was only portrayed once as a universe deflecting clap...
More feats for his clap, not deflecting universe destroying attacks, or, Hulk only doing that feat once?

Only once. Like I said, it was just a high-end showing, like Superman moving something as big as a solar system. While impressive, these feats don’t show the characters at their average levels.
Originally posted by bigbran
It happened a while ago, didn't it?
How am I supposed to have exact memory?

It was editors stating it, and yet you argued it.

Writers also state a lot of things.

Hell, Stan Lee said that if he wrote a crossover between Hulk and Superman, he would have Hulk win.


I argued it was their opinion and hardly held much ground, especially considering a later group said the issue was still disputed.

Any way, the writer clearly applied physics to the scenario to create an infinite force. That’s why it’s hardly the same thing.

Originally posted by bigbran
Also, how much strength would you actually need for this feat, other than infinite?
It isn't an exact number, and it is basically implying Hulk to be on abstract levels of strength.
However, if we had someone else try and fail, we could get an estimate, of how much stronger Hulk is.

Was there anyone else who tried to do this, to compare?


No one else did it, just as there wasn’t any one else besides Superman who held a black hole in his hand or pulled a weight equivalent to the solar system.

If Superman was shown in Hulk’s place, he probably would have been written to accomploish the same task, as Hulk probably would have been shown the hold the black hole oif he was in Superman’s place. Basically, if these two were both in a canon comic together, they would be shown as equal in strength as Marvel/Superman or Hulk/Thor.

Originally posted by bigbran
Yes, but also an implication.

But only implied? Superman is one of the most overwritten characters in comics. Beating Darkseid, beating Doomsday, those are some good strength feats.


They are, as is all the crazy crap Hulk has done.
Originally posted by bigbran
Wasn't he also gradually building up anger as he was holding them apart?

Sure, from Spidey egging him on, but really how uberly pissed-off do you see him getting from just that?
Originally posted by bigbran
Ya, and you also said that Hulk was not far behind as a normal one.

I already know that Hulk stacks up to Supes in that area when he is madder.

I just want to see how close Superman is of a normal Hulk.


I think he stacks up fairly well, considering it was only a somewhat mad (as opposed to the Mindless version) Hulk who performed those Superman-level feats listed earlier.
Originally posted by bigbran
No, I want feats of a normal Hulk doing what Supes has done.
I never said that a mad one doesn't stack up.

Did I ever say that Hulk doesn't compare to Supes?

If I already know that a mad/pissed Hulk compares to Superman, then why are you giving me those feats?

Its all inconsistent though, Superman's strength stays the same, while Hulk goes up and down.
Quite hard to compare the two.

But at his lowest Savage Hulk form, I don't think he is nearly as strong as Superman.
Think of it this way, Hulk's power can easily double, triple, quadruple, etc, and if he was a little lower than Supes, wouldn't this mean that he can also go 4x as strong as Supes in a couple seconds?
Something I don't believe he will do like that.

He might be able to surpass Superman, but I don't think he will do it like that.
I think he would need to gradually build up anger (probably while fighting someone, cause that is how he usually gets so strong, or while being provided a challenge), to surpass Supes.

He isn't just going to say, "I'm angry", and reach Superman's level.

Am I putting this good?


You’re asking for an average Hulk vs a high-end Superman. Guess what? Superman is not always shown at godly levels any more than Hulk is.

You want Hulk to move something as big as a solar system? Realistically, yeah, he would have to be pretty pissed. But at the same time, realistically, Superman would at least have to sun-dip for quite a while in order to accomplish that same feat.

Considering how much Hulk has done in terms of strength comparable to Superman when he didn’t have to the opportunity to get really, really mad, you have two things to consider:
1. He starts no where near their level, but apparently can amp his strength exponentially so that it reaches Thor/Superman levels in a matter of moments or
2. He starts just below them and works his way up.

Personally, I find the latter more believable, since if it was the former, Hulk wouldn’t have just stalemated Thor for an hour in Defenders and he’d easily overpower him with an ability to increase his strength at that rate. It would be like you said, where he could amp himself to be 2X as strong as Thor to 5X, to 10X, and so on.

Originally posted by bigbran
Or a pretty mad version.

So basically, his slightly mad form, has better feats than when he is full on pissed?
A slightly mad Hulk beat Thor, near to death, in a couple of punches.
A mindless Hulk stalemated him for a while...

What ever happened to the madder Hulk gets, the stronger he gets?


Fairly ticked is just how Hulk has been for the vast majority of his most impressive feats. He just hasn’t been shown at his angriest levels when he performed them.

Take the Hulk that broke Onslaught’s armor and chances are he’d perform the matter antimatter feat even better.

Originally posted by bigbran
That he does, but you never answered the question.

My answer is no, I don’t Thing is nearly as strong as Superman. However, as I pointed out earlier, that doesn’t discredit Hulk’s strength.

Originally posted by Accel
They’ve fought at least twice in Thor’s title. Heck, their very first fight took place sometime in Journey into Mystery, which was basically the name of Thor’s book when it started out.
Ya, and that was a stalemate, where Thor couldn't even use his hammer.

Originally posted by Accel
Any way, nothing else has been forgotten. Had Thor ever fought to his full potential, he’d Godblast Hulk’s ass and be done with it. In their first fight, Thor wanted to test his might against Hulk’s, so he asked Odin to allow him to fight Hulk in H2H to test it. In another fight (in Thor’s own title no less), Hulk provoked Thor to throw it away. In Defenders, they grappled and stalemated for an hour.
Ya, in Thor's comics they stalemated with no upper, or lower strength, Thor didn't even have his hammer for those, imagnine that.
In the Hulk comics... Thor has his hammer, and gets his ass raped.

Originally posted by Accel
Generally, their fights always come down to strength vs strength.
Usually.

Originally posted by Accel
Of course they do. But the fact still remains that when taking into account all their fights, they are generally portrayed on equal footing with an edge to Hulk in terms of strength.
Not, in Hulk's.
I seem to remember Hulk in a couple punches and almost killing him.

In Thor's, they stalemate when Thor doesn't have his hammer.

You see a difference?

Originally posted by Accel
That was also an impressive strength feat.
Yes, impressive duribility feat indeed.

Originally posted by Accel
Only once. Like I said, it was just a high-end showing, like Superman moving something as big as a solar system. While impressive, these feats don’t show the characters at their average levels.
Yes, but how many times has Hulk clapped?
How many times has Superman failed to move/lift something?

Originally posted by Accel
I argued it was their opinion and hardly held much ground, especially considering a later group said the issue was still disputed.

Ya, and I don't think "infinite" is hardly a good comparison.
Why don't we just label everything as infinite and call it a game?

Originally posted by Accel
Any way, the writer clearly applied physics to the scenario to create an infinite force. That’s why it’s hardly the same thing.

So, does that mean that we can compare Hulk's infinite to Eternity's infinite strength?

Originally posted by Accel
No one else did it, just as there wasn’t any one else besides Superman who held a black hole in his hand or pulled a weight equivalent to the solar system.
Uggg, I hate that stupid black hole feat...
Also, Supermn went all out on that solar system one, anyone lower than him, can just about forget that feat.
Hulk didn't seem to try that incredibly hard to hold them back, and throw them.

Originally posted by Accel
If Superman was shown in Hulk’s place, he probably would have been written to accomploish the same task, as Hulk probably would have been shown the hold the black hole oif he was in Superman’s place. Basically, if these two were both in a canon comic together, they would be shown as equal in strength as Marvel/Superman or Hulk/Thor.
Don't know about that... Superman is one of the most over written characters in comics.

Originally posted by Accel
They are, as is all the crazy crap Hulk has done.
Indeed... wait, when has Hulk beaten a skyfather level character, without additional help?

Originally posted by Accel
Sure, from Spidey egging him on, but really how uberly pissed-off do you see him getting from just that?
He is also, trying to keep the things seperate (struggling, Hulk seems to get stronger as he struggles), and Spidey's an ass hole.

Originally posted by Accel
I think he stacks up fairly well, considering it was only a somewhat mad (as opposed to the Mindless version) Hulk who performed those Superman-level feats listed earlier.

I thought normal Hulk was somewhere around the class 200's.

Originally posted by Accel
You’re asking for an average Hulk vs a high-end Superman. Guess what? Superman is not always shown at godly levels any more than Hulk is.
Umm, ya he is. His strength doesn't fluctuate.
The only thing you have said about Supes strength getting lower, is when he couldn't kill Batman.

Originally posted by Accel
You want Hulk to move something as big as a solar system? Realistically, yeah, he would have to be pretty pissed. But at the same time, realistically, Superman would at least have to sun-dip for quite a while in order to accomplish that same feat.
Didn't know Superman was sun-dipped when he did this?

Originally posted by Accel
Considering how much Hulk has done in terms of strength comparable to Superman when he didn’t have to the opportunity to get really, really mad, you have two things to consider:
1. He starts no where near their level, but apparently can amp his strength exponentially so that it reaches Thor/Superman levels in a matter of moments or
2. He starts just below them and works his way up.

Personally, I find the latter more believable, since if it was the former, Hulk wouldn’t have just stalemated Thor for an hour in Defenders and he’d easily overpower him with an ability to increase his strength at that rate. It would be like you said, where he could amp himself to be 2X as strong as Thor to 5X, to 10X, and so on.

Hasn't Hulk doubled his strength in a couple seconds before?

Also, so you believe Hulk's strength to be just under infinite as a normal form?
He seems to differ from comic to comic.
One comic he doubles his strength, the next he slowly graduates.

What about when Abom fought him? He got stomped.
In the next, he was able to fight him evenly.

To me, it seems that Hulk grows to a strength level, then stays there, most of the time.

Also, we have seen how Thor fights people with 4x his strength... Kurse.

Originally posted by Accel
Fairly ticked is just how Hulk has been for the vast majority of his most impressive feats. He just hasn’t been shown at his angriest levels when he performed them.
Ya, and his showings as slightly mad, seem to be better than when he was mindless.
As mindless he fought Herc in a good fight.
As slightly mad, he beat Herc quite a bit.

Originally posted by Accel
Take the Hulk that broke Onslaught’s armor and chances are he’d perform the matter antimatter feat even better.
So, are we putting Jean Grey in there too?

Originally posted by Accel
My answer is no, I don’t Thing is nearly as strong as Superman. However, as I pointed out earlier, that doesn’t discredit Hulk’s strength.
It doesn't... 😕
That is a feat of which normal Hulk isn't as close to Superman as you think.

Originally posted by bigbran
Not, in Hulk's.
I seem to remember Hulk in a couple punches and almost killing him.

In Thor's, they stalemate when Thor doesn't have his hammer.

You see a difference?


Sure. But despite the differences in the way they’re portrayed, the message is still the same in all of them: Hulk is clearly as strong or stronger than Thor.
Originally posted by bigbran
Yes, but how many times has Hulk clapped?
How many times has Superman failed to move/lift something?

With the exception of Mjolnir, neither Superman nor Hulk have ever really failed to lift or move any thing.
Originally posted by bigbran
Ya, and I don't think "infinite" is hardly a good comparison.
Why don't we just label everything as infinite and call it a game?

Not sure what this has to do with the opinions of editors, but I believe you lost track of what we were initially debating.

You presented me with Superman lifting half the Spectre and pulling the Maggedon millwheels, and asked me what has Hulk done to compare, so I presented you with equally insane feats. Now I’m wondering what are we disputing at this point?

Originally posted by bigbran
So, does that mean that we can compare Hulk's infinite to Eternity's infinite strength?

What kind of question is that?
Originally posted by bigbran
Indeed... wait, when has Hulk beaten a skyfather level character, without additional help?

Most likely none (some possibilities are extremely questionable going off of pure memory here), but then again, he also doesn’t have plot-device powers such as T-Vo or weak-ass avatars of sky-fathers to beat up, now does he?
Originally posted by bigbran
[BUmm, ya he is. His strength doesn't fluctuate.
The only thing you have said about Supes strength getting lower, is when he couldn't kill Batman. [/B]

*sigh*

Yes, his strength does fluctuate, as does every other top-tier’s strength. Like I said, I believe his Maggedon feat took place around the same period as when he needed to help to just move the moon and the Earth. Had he applied this same Maggedon feat against Wonder Woman recently in Sacrifice when under mind-control, he would have obliterated her.

Moments like the Spectre and Maggedon involve a high end Superman, as the matter antimatter and the Eternal Flame incidents involve a high-end Hulk.

Originally posted by bigbran
Didn't know Superman was sun-dipped when he did this?

He wasn’t. I said that realistically, considering how his strength is on average, he would have had to sun-dip for quite a while.

Originally posted by bigbran
Hasn't Hulk doubled his strength in a couple seconds before?

Also, so you believe Hulk's strength to be just under infinite as a normal form?
He seems to differ from comic to comic.
One comic he doubles his strength, the next he slowly graduates.

What about when Abom fought him? He got stomped.
In the next, he was able to fight him evenly.

To me, it seems that Hulk grows to a strength level, then stays there, most of the time.


Exactly. Just like Superman, Hulk basically becomes as strong as the story requires him to be.

Originally posted by bigbran
Ya, and his showings as slightly mad, seem to be better than when he was mindless.
As mindless he fought Herc in a good fight.
As slightly mad, he beat Herc quite a bit.

Against Mindless, Herc had help from the Avengers. Big difference.

Not to mention, he’s held his own against Hulk every time they’ve fought, even when he was depowered to become mortal.

Originally posted by bigbran
So, are we putting Jean Grey in there too?

Uhhhh, sure?
Originally posted by bigbran
It doesn't... 😕
That is a feat of which normal Hulk isn't as close to Superman as you think.

The same “normal Hulk” who can stalemate Thor, Hercules, Drax, etc? Please.

We’ve already discussed that Thing has held his own against top-tiers all the time, including Thor (y’know, the guy who held the Midgard Serpent?) and immortal Hercules.

Originally posted by Accel
Sure. But despite the differences in the way they’re portrayed, the message is still the same in all of them: Hulk is clearly as strong or stronger than Thor.
The message of Hulk being better than Thor is also there...

I already said he is as strong/stronger than Thor.

Originally posted by Accel
With the exception of Mjolnir, neither Superman nor Hulk have ever really failed to lift or move any thing.
And can we compare the things that they lifted?

Originally posted by Accel
Not sure what this has to do with the opinions of editors, but I believe you lost track of what we were initially debating.
No, I got it, just going off topic a little.
Just saying that the writers are implying that Hulk could be on the same level as Eternity in terms of strength.

Also, that infinite is hardly a number, to compare it with other things.

Originally posted by Accel
You presented me with Superman lifting half the Spectre and pulling the Maggedon millwheels, and asked me what has Hulk done to compare, so I presented you with equally insane feats. Now I’m wondering what are we disputing at this point?
Ya, and saying that infinite is hardly a number to support.
I amarguing against one of your more questionable feats.

Originally posted by Accel
What kind of question is that?
Eternity has infinite strength. Hulk has "supposed" infinite strength.
Can we compare their strength?

I don't agree that you need "infinite" strength to do that feat, in other words.

Originally posted by Accel
Most likely none (some possibilities are extremely questionable going off of pure memory here), but then again, he also doesn’t have plot-device powers such as T-Vo or weak-ass avatars of sky-fathers to beat up, now does he?
Well technically... the last time he stomped Darkseid wasn't an avatar.
Also, T-Vo is retarded, thus why I have never brought it up.

Originally posted by Accel
*sigh*

Yes, his strength does fluctuate, as does every other top-tier’s strength. Like I said, I believe his Maggedon feat took place around the same period as when he needed to help to just move the moon and the Earth. Had he applied this same Maggedon feat against Wonder Woman recently in Sacrifice when under mind-control, he would have obliterated her.

First of all, Superman's strength is supposed to stay the same (sometimes goes up for some unexplained reason).
Superman's doesn't go down, it will go up, but it doesn't come back down (in other words, overwritten).
We know Hulk's goes up and down for a fact.

Was it actually? Because if it wasn't, Superman's strength has been going up since his death, because of his absorbtion of sunlight, or some shit like that.
Also, why would Superman need help in doing this?
I recall a scan of Superman moving Earth before.

Next, what does lifting strength have to do with the ability to punch?
If that is the case, then how does Ulik fight Thor? How does Thing fight anyone?

Originally posted by Accel
Moments like the Spectre and Maggedon involve a high end Superman, as the matter antimatter and the Eternal Flame incidents involve a high-end Hulk.
High-end Superman is every other comic.

Originally posted by Accel
He wasn’t. I said that realistically, considering how his strength is on average, he would have had to sun-dip for quite a while.
His strength has never really been given a max, and he has never not been able to lift anything, so where is his strength on at average?

Originally posted by Accel
Exactly. Just like Superman, Hulk basically becomes as strong as the story requires him to be.
Maybe...

Originally posted by Accel
Against Mindless, Herc had help from the Avengers. Big difference.
He fought him for a couple of pages.

Originally posted by Accel
Not to mention, he’s held his own against Hulk every time they’ve fought, even when he was depowered to become mortal.
Ya, and he got beat almost all of those times.

Originally posted by Accel
Uhhhh, sure?
Ya, because that is why Hulk was able to fight Onslaught. Basically, to repeat anything that, that Hulk did, we would need a telepath.

Originally posted by Accel
The same “normal Hulk” who can stalemate Thor, Hercules, Drax, etc? Please.
Ya, that Hulk. He was also maddened in all those fights, was he not?

Originally posted by Accel
We’ve already discussed that Thing has held his own against top-tiers all the time, including Thor (y’know, the guy who held the Midgard Serpent?) and immortal Hercules.
Yes, and Thing was able to outlast everyone on Earth against Champion, that includes, Thor and Hulk...
Originally posted by Accel
Please.
Grimm seems to be able fight everyone in Marvel, except Wolverine.
I still don't think he stands a damn chance against Supes.

Also, there was that one fight between Thor, Thing, and Hulk... 😈

Seems like Nefaria wins. He can whoop all the avengers including top tiers. Captain Marvel Can't do that.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Seems like Nefaria wins. He can whoop all the avengers including top tiers. Captain Marvel Can't do that.
Oh, ya, I forgot what the topic was...

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Seems like Nefaria wins. He can whoop all the avengers including top tiers. Captain Marvel Can't do that.

Magneto's done the same thing to the Avengers before. That includes Vision, Thor, Iron Man, etc...

Thor isn't written at full potential in Avengers books.

Anyway, Captain Marvel takes this. That's right, I said it...

Originally posted by batdude123
Magneto's done the same thing to the Avengers before. That includes Vision, Thor, Iron Man, etc...

Thor isn't written at full potential in Avengers books.

Anyway, Captain Marvel takes this. That's right, I said it...

Yep, Captain Marvel ftw.

Originally posted by bigbran
The message of Hulk being better than Thor is also there...

I already said he is as strong/stronger than Thor.


All right, then. That means saying other Marvel characters greatly exceed his strength form the get-go is false.
Originally posted by bigbran
No, I got it, just going off topic a little.
Just saying that the writers are implying that Hulk could be on the same level as Eternity in terms of strength.

Also, that infinite is hardly a number, to compare it with other things.


It. Was. Just. A. High. Showing.

Good lord, of course no one’s saying Hulk’s as strong as Eternity.

Originally posted by bigbran
Ya, and saying that infinite is hardly a number to support.
I amarguing against one of your more questionable feats.

Eternity has infinite strength. Hulk has "supposed" infinite strength.
Can we compare their strength?

I don't agree that you need "infinite" strength to do that feat, in other words.


Then you would be wrong.

Look, do I think Hulk has infinite strength? No, he just has unlimited strength. But the fact remains he had a high-end showing where he displayed infinite strength. In the end, it’s really no different from Superman and Wonder Woman stopping the Spectre from falling. It’s a high showing that puts Hulk on Sueprman’s level.

Originally posted by bigbran
First of all, Superman's strength is supposed to stay the same (sometimes goes up for some unexplained reason).
Superman's doesn't go down, it will go up, but it doesn't come back down (in other words, overwritten).
We know Hulk's goes up and down for a fact.

Was it actually? Because if it wasn't, Superman's strength has been going up since his death, because of his absorbtion of sunlight, or some shit like that.
Also, why would Superman need help in doing this?
I recall a scan of Superman moving Earth before.

Next, what does lifting strength have to do with the ability to punch?
If that is the case, then how does Ulik fight Thor? How does Thing fight anyone?


Superman’s strength is supposed to stay the same, as is almost every one else’s. But like every one else, it does fluctuate in comics. Hulk’s fluctuations are at least somewhat explainable.

The guy needed to sun-dip just to move War World, and all of a sudden he can move something as big as a solar system without taking a few minutes into the sun? It was a high showing. Nothing more. Nothing less.

Originally posted by bigbran
High-end Superman is every other comic.

I doubt you even read Superman comics.
Originally posted by bigbran
His strength has never really been given a max, and he has never not been able to lift anything, so where is his strength on at average?

I’m talking about how his strength is shown on average. His strength is generally shown to be around the same level as Captain Marvel, Wonder Woman, and Martian Manhunter, none of which who have any strength feats that compare to the Maggedon feat (barring WW lifting half the Spectre).
Originally posted by bigbran
Ya, because that is why Hulk was able to fight Onslaught. Basically, to repeat anything that, that Hulk did, we would need a telepath.

Which doesn’t disprove any thing I said. Sure, put a telepath in there, but the fact still remains that Mindless Hulk should still be able to accomplish any of those feats he performed when he was only somewhat mad.
Originally posted by bigbran
Ya, that Hulk. He was also maddened in all those fights, was he not?

He was a little mad, yes. Not Mindless mad or the kind of rage that takes hours to reach, but just somewhat mad. As mad as he always is.

If you’re looking for feat that Hulk performs when he’s retardedly happy or something, then yeah, those are non-existant. But I believe I proved my point that his strength is around the same level as Superman’s.

Originally posted by bigbran
Yes, and Thing was able to outlast everyone on Earth against Champion, that includes, Thor and Hulk...

Thor and Hulk were both banished from the ring before they could fight remember?
Originally posted by bigbran
Also, there was that one fight between Thor, Thing, and Hulk... 😈

Yeah, another good moment for Thor.