What is 'good' music?

Originally posted by Bardock42
So they are not interchangable, since they are made after the rest of the music (I am not sure if that's actually true though, I think Leonard Cohen was more interested in his poems, the Music just came around it, i also know Bob Dylan wrote lyrics first and then fitted the music, and I have read an interview with Thom Yorke where he said they came together he with new lyrics ideas they with new music ideas).

Some people write the lyrics first. A song is still written as an independent entity, though.

If you read the lyrics to 'Bald' by The Darkness, and then listen to the song, you can tell there's no correlation from lyrics to music- the lyrics are just made to fit the song. I doubt any song- or vocal that is- was specifically made to fit the lyric. It wouldn't make any sense, or have any real point.

What the hell are you on about? You are making no sense at all.

If the people playing the music, change the music, then the music has changed. Lyrics cannot do that.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
What the hell are you on about? You are making no sense at all.

If the people playing the music, change the music, then the music has changed. Lyrics cannot do that.

-AC

Look if Morrissey would suddenly sing something totally different, it wouldn't sound the same, would it?

The lyrics just show what he has said.

Originally posted by Bardock42
Look if Morrissey would suddenly sing something totally different, it wouldn't sound the same, would it?

The lyrics just show what he has said.

Depends if he re-writes the vocal line. Chances are he'd adapt the new lyrics into the old line. All that'd change is the words, barring slight enunciation points.

If he changed the vocal line, then he's changed the vocal line.

Originally posted by Victor Von Doom
Depends if he re-writes the vocal line. Chances are he'd adapt the new lyrics into the old line. All that'd change is the words, barring slight enunciation points.

If he changed the vocal line, then he's changed the vocal line.

Would he be able to keep the same vocal line with different lyrics?

Or would he (as is basically my only point) be forced to change the voclas because of the different lyrics?

Originally posted by Bardock42
Would he be able to keep the same vocal line with different lyrics?

Or would he (as is basically my only point) be forced to change the voclas because of the different lyrics?

People always keep the vocal line with new lyrics. Just different words. Granted, the odd thing can sound slightly different.

Originally posted by Victor Von Doom
People always keep the vocal line with new lyrics. Just different words. Granted, the odd thing can sound slightly different.

Well..then forget what I just argued over a page...it just seemed quite impossible.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Yes, sound.

Note the second step; "the SOUND which changes the music". Precisely, the sound changes the music, not the words. Clear? Are you getting that? The sound changes the music, the sound that comes from the human vocal, the human vocal (sound) that is necessary to make words more than just words. The words cannot do it on their own, which is what we have been discussing.

Don't say "But the words change the...", no, we're not discussing what words DO change, just what they don't. That being music.

-AC

Originally posted by Victor Von Doom
That's one definition, but it's quite clearly not the definition applied here, otherwise the argument wouldn't make sense.

If you are arguing that the lyrics are more important than the music, but they are also part of the music, you've just disappeared inside yourself.

now your probably gonna call this a cop out, but i said what i was originally trying to say awhile ago and i dont really care much about what we're talking about now so im not gonna post in the thread anymore.

Originally posted by Phat J
i dont even know how i got into this argument, i dont remember what my point was but this is the one from my last post so im just goin with it. if the words change the sound, which you just admitted ac, then therefore they change the music because the music is determined by the sound.

now your probably gonna call this a cop out, but i said what i was originally trying to say awhile ago and i dont really care much about what we're talking about now so im not gonna post in the thread anymore.

No, you're talking bullshit. Words are just words, they don't have anything to do with sound, at all. That is scientifically, factually undeniable.

They don't change anything on their own, sound changes things. Therefore we can see, as people have already said, and as I have said, that words don't touch the music, sound does. It doesn't matter what is said, but how it's said. That's with sound. Sound changes a song, not text.

-AC

Words dont change the music? What? Lyrics are the basis of the songs, the meaning. People write songs with meaningful lyrics. Take Tears in Heaven for example, the Eric Clapton song. Those lyrics are the whole song!

Read that back and realise how preposterous that post is. I'm not going over it again, I've done it with people in this thread already and proved I'm right.

-AC

😖leep: 😖leep: 😆 whatever dude
Take music 101 or sumthin

Example: Radiohead.
Does it even matter what Yorke is saying? No, its HOW he says it, its the moaning, the dragged out vowels, the drone, that takes the music and adds so much too it.
Vocals are important, Lyrics less so.

Originally posted by pinkfloydkor
😖leep: 😖leep: 😆 whatever dude
Take music 101 or sumthin

Take ReadTheThread101, or alternatively just read the thread. You're wrong, get over it.

-AC

okay then, whatever

Originally posted by pinkfloydkor
Take Tears in Heaven for example, the Eric Clapton song. Those lyrics are the whole song!

I take it you just read it as a poem then, seeing as the music isn't necessary.

Not as apoem, but you take the lyrics, and the style of the music, and then you get what the artist wanted. You get a story, and a nice sounding tune mixed together

Yeah, in which the music is primary, the lyrics aren't. You just countered your own argument, you fool.

-AC

Good music is generally music that, when everything else is stripped away and it's just one man/woman and their guitar, it can still send chills down your spine and completely enrapture someone *points to Jose Gonzalez {sp?}*. Actually that is great music, but anywho. 😄

On a slightly different note, there is a difference between liking music and it being good. Example: I like the new Rogue Traders song but I wouldn't necessarily say it is good music. ermm

Oh and if this has already been answered then I don't care, as I only read the first page. 😄

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Yeah, in which the music is primary, the lyrics aren't. You just countered your own argument, you fool.

-AC

**** it, im done talkin to you