Originally posted by quanchi112
He wasnt allowed to do anything like that. He broke the rules and wanted to fool everyone. He was supposed to fight to the death but broke the code by using his beams. Wow.
and how does that even remotely relate to using full power Omega Beam? and Darkseid can decline the challenge anytime actually as he has done so in the past 😬
Originally posted by King_MungiHe didnt decline the challenge he accepted it is the point. He used his beams which was against the rules and there is no honor in throwing the confrontatiom. The point is he violated the code. 😬
and how does that even remotely relate to using full power Omega Beam? and Darkseid can decline the challenge anytime actually as he has done so in the past 😬
Originally posted by quanchi112
He didnt decline the challenge he accepted it is the point. He used his beams which was against the rules and there is no honor in throwing the confrontatiom. The point is he violated the code. 😬
Ummm...please show me the rules saying he can't use beams? [Even though like I said they wern't even meant to harm Orion] or show me where in the rules he would lose honor in throwing the confrontation. As he has accepted it before and walked away and no one cared 😬
Originally posted by King_MungiIt was strictly hand to hand combat. He hit something on his wrist and the fired his beams. To me throwing a competition is dishonorable and that to me is common sense.
Ummm...please show me the rules saying he can't use beams? [Even though like I said they wern't even meant to harm Orion] or show me where in the rules he would lose honor in throwing the confrontation. As he has accepted it before and walked away and no one cared 😬
Originally posted by quanchi112
It was strictly hand to hand combat. He hit something on his wrist and the fired his beams. To me throwing a competition is dishonorable and that to me is common sense.
Ummmm...lulz? It was Orion who hit something on his wrist as he created a forcefield deflecting the OE, but Darkseid actually planned for that. To you it's dishonarable, to Darkseid he saved the universe from Orion.
Originally posted by Sirius77
lol, you must have me confused with someone else. Logic would say that he would have to have something to guide him through space at faster than light speeds, perhaps its cosmic awreness, perhaps its reflexes, who knows? All we can do is guess. I never said that surfer didnt have fast reflexes, I just agree with the fact that he doesnt have amazing combat speed or many speedblitzes under his belt.
Originally posted by Sirius77
Thats great. 🙂
Originally posted by Sirius77
lol. No he wasnt. I have that comic, he was practically on roid rage, lol. He was on a cosmic adrenaline rush, thats why he was rushing to tenebrous and aegis so eagerly. Thats what that whole little "I will HOLD them!" monologue was about.
Originally posted by Sirius77
He beat tenebrous and aegis on a tecnicality. If the crunch was not there, he would been killed.
Originally posted by Sirius77
The stranger and watcher, I have no idea about those, but do you mind posting some scans?
I'm having trouble with the Watcher scans, bur here's one of Surfer's encounters with the Stranger...
http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/9360/silversurfer05p37fb5.jpg
http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/8116/silversurfer05p38pd1.jpg
http://img337.imageshack.us/img337/1516/silversurfer05p39oj0.jpg
http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/3233/silversurfer05p40vp2.jpg
http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/8522/silversurfer05p41aq5.jpg
http://img183.imageshack.us/img183/4617/silversurfer05p47su8.jpg
Originally posted by Sirius77
And no, their highest feats are not in the same ballpark.
Originally posted by Sirius77
Surfer can't hold the energy of a sun. Precrisis superman blows them out. Surfer makes black holes, Precrisis superman is capable of ending realities. Theres really no comparison imo.
Surfer creates Black Holes, PC Supes blows out suns=Same ballpark.
Surfer takes down the embodiments of Realities(Uni-Lord), Supes is capable of ending realities=Same Ballpark.
Originally posted by Sirius77
Grasping...Well, if you would like to disregard that, fine. Its still a feat, and its still canon. He has some other very good ones also. Visit the respect thread.
I've seen the respect thread. I've also read most of the original issues that the scans come from so I know most of the context that the respect thread leaves out.
Originally posted by King_MungiDs hit his own wrist and Orion then did to defend himself from Ds. Again it was only hand to hand combat. I have said my piece and so have you.
Ummmm...lulz? It was Orion who hit something on his wrist as he created a forcefield deflecting the OE, but Darkseid actually planned for that. To you it's dishonarable, to Darkseid he saved the universe from Orion.
Originally posted by quanchi112
Ds hit his own wrist and Orion then did to defend himself from Ds. Again it was only hand to hand combat. I have said my piece and so have you.
Wrong again, it was ORION who hit his wrist, as you see the forcefield being generated from his wrists and the close up on the wrists is Orions glove. Seriously have you read the issue? 😬
Originally posted by King_MungiI just looked it up. I cant remember everything in every issue I look at. Orion hit his wrist after Ds's eyes turned red and he knew the beams were coming. Ds resorted to his beams because in hand to hand he was losing. 🙂
Wrong again, it was ORION who hit his wrist, as you see the forcefield being generated from his wrists and the close up on the wrists is Orions glove. Seriously have you read the issue? 😬
Originally posted by quanchi112
I just looked it up. I cant remember everything in every issue I look at. Orion hit his wrist after Ds's eyes turned red and he knew the beams were coming. Ds resorted to his beams because in hand to hand he was losing. 🙂
Awesome yet you kept saying it was Darkseid who touched his wrist, also where was it said the fight had to be hand to hand? I guess Orion is dishonourable as he didn't use just hand to hand either eh?. Also read further as the reason he used the OE was DS wanted Orion to believe he actually killed him.
Case in point from later on in another altercation:
http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh187/DarkseidRes/NewGodsv3_08-21.jpg
Originally posted by King_MungiI said I was wrong, please get over it. Orion used his forcefield because Darkseid was obvioulsy cheating. He is dishonorable and is a villain. Villains are usually dishonorable. Didnt Ds back off from Doomsday once and tell Steppenwulf not to speak of it to anyone. That wasnt very honorable or courageous either. Ds tried to fool him into believing he died. He is a villain and does everything out fof personal gain.
Awesome yet you kept saying it was Darkseid who touched his wrist, also where was it said the fight had to be hand to hand? I guess Orion is dishonourable as he didn't use just hand to hand either eh?. Also read further as the reason he used the OE was DS wanted Orion to believe he actually killed him.Case in point from later on in another altercation:
http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh187/DarkseidRes/NewGodsv3_08-21.jpg
Originally posted by quanchi112
I said I was wrong, please get over it. Orion used his forcefield because Darkseid was obvioulsy cheating. He is dishonorable and is a villain. Villains are usually dishonorable. Didnt Ds back off from Doomsday once and tell Steppenwulf not to speak of it to anyone. That wasnt very honorable or courageous either. Ds tried to fool him into believing he died. He is a villain and does everything out fof personal gain.
So in that whole paragraph you still couldn't any proof eh? and half of your paragraph is wrong anyways. Darkseid planned the whole thing he even states it in the next issue when he is talking to Metron, when he comes face to face with Orion with the ALE, and a few more times when he is making plans with Metron 😬
You keep flip flooping your points 😬
Originally posted by King_MungiListen I dont know what you think I am flipflopping about. The fight was obviously a hand to hand fight only and Ds used his beams and cheated. He threw the match, and again I have gone over and over this with you. It is common sense that in sports,battles,whatever that if you purposely lose that you have dishonored youself and your character. 😛
So in that whole paragraph you still couldn't any proof eh? and half of your paragraph is wrong anyways. Darkseid planned the whole thing he even states it in the next issue when he is talking to Metron, when he comes face to face with Orion with the ALE, and a few more times when he is making plans with Metron 😬You keep flip flooping your points 😬
Originally posted by quanchi112
Listen I dont know what you think I am flipflopping about. The fight was obviously a hand to hand fight only and Ds used his beams and cheated. He threw the match, and again I have gone over and over this with you. It is common sense that in sports,battles,whatever that if you purposely lose that you have dishonored youself and your character. 😛
Yeah it was a hand to hand fight DS INTENDED to lose. Yet you keep implying it's a legit fight 😬 Also you do realize in other father/son challenges Orion has used weapons and DS has used his eyes and no one said it was dishonourable 😬 Actually you said he used weapns so he cheated, but so did Orion, so he is a cheater too by your logic.
Originally posted by King_MungiNo to defend yourself after someone is cheating is just defending yourself. Ds cheated first. 😛
Yeah it was a hand to hand fight DS INTENDED to lose. Yet you keep implying it's a legit fight 😬 Also you do realize in other father/son challenges Orion has used weapons and DS has used his eyes and no one said it was dishonourable 😬 Actually you said he used weapns so he cheated, but so did Orion, so he is a cheater too by your logic.
In other father and son challenges were they in this arena? 😉
Originally posted by quanchi112
No to defend yourself after someone is cheating is just defending yourself. Ds cheated first. 😛In other father and son challenges were they in this arena? 😉
Actually the honourable thing to do is NOT to lower yourself to his level. Not cheat as well
None, but others happened on New Genesis and in front of the Source Wall. It doesn't have to be in a stadium
Originally posted by King_MungiWell it was obviously a different challenge and it seemed to me as if they had agreed on strictly a hand to hand battle. When has anyone seen Darkseid fight like that in any other comic?
Actually the honourable thing to do is NOT to lower yourself to his level. Not cheat as wellNone, but others happened on New Genesis and in front of the Source Wall. It doesn't have to be in a stadium
Survival instinct kicks in and he saved his ass because he thought Ds was trying to kill him.
Originally posted by quanchi112
Well it was obviously a different challenge and it seemed to me as if they had agreed on strictly a hand to hand battle. When has anyone seen Darkseid fight like that in any other comic?Survival instinct kicks in and he saved his ass because he thought Ds was trying to kill him.
It still was a challenge DS was going to lose on purpose so he could as he said give him Apokolips, so in turn he could stain his soul.
Orion knows DS doesn't want to kill him, he has even said that to his son several times and DS himself has spared his son even bringing him back from the dead 😬
Originally posted by darthgoober
And where are all these speedblitzes from PC Supes that you're talking about? You say that Surfer doesn't have many combat speed feats, but so far neither does PC Supes.
I never said that he did have many speedblitzing feats.
This isn't a speed blitz, but its good reaction time. I doubt that surfers blasts will move any faster than this:
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=8783571
And he has great control over blitzing, seeing as jimmy didnt vaporize, lol:
Here Precrisis superman moves the earth at 1/4 strength in a tenth of a second.
A speedblitz. Unsuccessful (its precrisis mongul, not a surprise, lol):
Two speedblitzes:
http://s160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/Precrisis/?action=view¤t=maaldor12.jpg
Originally posted by darthgoober
You do realize that time dilation is the same method of speed that Zoom uses right? Surfer keeping up with Gladiator=Flash keeping up with Zoom.
Thats great, but earth two superman just as 'recently' as ic one-shotted zoom. Also, Precrisis Superman was not only keeping up with Precrisis Flash, but was actually had a better reaction time. Precrisis Flash was alot 'faster' than zoom.
Originally posted by darthgoober
Then check it again because Surfer was tore up before he channeled the energies of the Crunch...
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/comic/Annihilation-HeraldsofGalactus2-033.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/comic/Annihilation-HeraldsofGalactus2-034.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/comic/Annihilation-HeraldsofGalactus2-035.jpg
http://img81.imageshack.us/img81/7008/annihilationheraldsofgaoi2.jpg
He was torn up because he was getting owned by tenebrous and aegis. That was my point...
Originally posted by darthgoober
You forget that Surfer can actually send and recieve energy through Hyperspace. That means that he can technically channel the energies of the Crunch from anywhere...
Which would kill him. Thats probably why he doesnt.
But I see your point.
Originally posted by darthgoober
I'm having trouble with the Watcher scans, bur here's one of Surfer's encounters with the Stranger...
http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/9360/silversurfer05p37fb5.jpg
http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/8116/silversurfer05p38pd1.jpg
http://img337.imageshack.us/img337/1516/silversurfer05p39oj0.jpg
http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/3233/silversurfer05p40vp2.jpg
http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/8522/silversurfer05p41aq5.jpg
http://img183.imageshack.us/img183/4617/silversurfer05p47su8.jpg
Thats really impressive, but he didnt actually 'defeat' the stranger. He just kind of cheap shotted him with a blast of energy to his eyes. The stranger was staggered a few times, but he just got tired of it and left.
Originally posted by darthgoober
Sure they are...
Nope. Check the respect thread.
Originally posted by darthgoober
If we're only going by the high end then your comparison's are wrong. Better comparisons would be...Surfer creates Black Holes, PC Supes blows out suns=Same ballpark.
Surfer takes down the embodiments of Realities(Uni-Lord), Supes is capable of ending realities=Same Ballpark.
Acually, blowing out a sun with your breath is a way bigger feat than making a black hole. Its not the same ballpark, lol.
And not to be rude, but can I have scans of this uni-lord thing? And who is uni-lord? And how is he the embodiment of realities?
Either way, not offense, but taking down reality enders is not the same as ending a couple of realities by accident...Doom has taken down galactus (iirc), but that doesnt mean that he is over galactus.
Originally posted by darthgoober
It's no more admissible for him than Keeper is for Surfer or Magus is for Warlock. It's a version of the character from an alternate universe, plane and simple.
Alternate universe? Darkseid was sleeping, woke up, and pwned the hell out of everyone. The same darkseid, just in the future. There was nothing alternate about it. And considering its the same character, and the feats are well within his abilities, and he was slightly weakened at the time (iirc), then I dont see why it would not be admissable.
