DE Sidious Vs Marka Ragnos

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
This coming from someone who claims he's always right and that he doesn't lose Sidious debates on a regular basis? Hypocrite would be a great term.

In Lightsnake's defense, he doesn't.

Because, in the end, you can't tell me exactly which abilities that Ragnos possesses, nor can you tell me that his are more powerful than Sidious's own.

I can tell you Sadow has shown powers beyond Sidious, that Simus and his queer little head is much more impressive than Sidious, his force storm, and his defeat at the hands of luke, and that Ragnos was the ruler over all of them, and they dare not challenge him even on his deathbed. If you can't understand this as a testament to his power, then I don't know what to tell you. Not to mention his nifty scepter had the ability to drain the force from any planet, and had the ability to bring Ragnos back to life.

I can tell you Sadow has shown powers beyond Sidious,

With his handy-dandy ship.

that Simus and his queer little head is much more impressive than Sidious, his force storm,

You mean being able to be a head and be virtually powerless? Oh yes, most impressive.

and his defeat at the hands of luke,

Luke = most powerful Star Wars character shown.

and that Ragnos was the ruler over all of them,

Could have been politics. But I don't dispute that he was the strongest of his day.

and they dare not challenge him even on his deathbed.

If you can't understand this as a testament to his power, then I don't know what to tell you.

Just as I thought. You can't tell me exactly what powers he possesses or what powers he doesn't.

Not to mention his nifty scepter had the ability to drain the force from any planet, and had the ability to bring Ragnos back to life.

Oooh . . . then the power of the item quantifies power for the user? Okay.

Sidious still owns Ragnos.

Death Star, Sun Crusher, World Devastators, Death Star II, Tarkin, Death Star prototype, Eclipse, Eclipse II - all belong to Sidious and each could annihilate planets.

Prove they didn't challenge Ragnos on his death bed...prove to me how Ragnos died.

Sidious owns Ragnos in power, not in raw power, force powers, etc.. And yes, the power of the item does quantify the power of the user, because it was the USER who created the item, I don't understand why that concept is so hard to grasp. And I mean that as a testament to force abilities. But if you wanna throw around your loophole about Sidious and his toys, I could also use your logic and say the Rakatans were the most powerful beings ever because they created the star forge.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Prove they didn't challenge Ragnos on his death bed...prove to me how Ragnos died.

Prove to you they didn't challenge Ragnos? Um.. It specifically states that he died of old age, which is unheard of in the golden age, considering the fact that in the sith tradition, once someone feels they are powerful enough, they challenge the DLOTS. That's proof for you, unless of course youre going to argue with GAOTS and Sith facts.

What? Erm...we know sith Lords comissioned others to create their weapons or created them themselves.

Sidious owns Ragnos in Force Power, he's stronger and I've proven it, thanks. Palpatine created imperial sentinals, living creatures of the Dark Side. try again

Sidious owns Ragnos in power, not in raw power, force powers, etc..

Sidious owns Ragnos in militaristic and political power and is his superior (but doesn't own him) in Force powers, raw power, etc . . .

And yes, the power of the item does quantify the power of the user, because it was the USER who created the item, I don't understand why that concept is so hard to grasp.

Sadow created his nifty ship. Why? Because he couldn't do the crap himself.

Ragnos created his scepter. Why? Can't do it himself.

And I mean that as a testament to force abilities.

Okay.

But if you wanna throw around your loophole about Sidious and his toys, I could also use your logic and say the Rakatans were the most powerful beings ever because they created the star forge.

Um . . . no, because either of those super weapons could simply blow up the Star Forge.

And Ragnos' scepter empowered people with force abilities. When you say you've proven it, do you mean by your ambiguous NEC text? Or you've actually proven it. I haven't seen you once prove Sidious>Ragnos unless youre going to count the "he said this" argument.

Originally posted by Escape81
Sidious owns Ragnos in militaristic and political power and is his superior (but doesn't own him) in Force powers, raw power, etc . . .

Sadow created his nifty ship. Why? Because he couldn't do the crap himself.

Ragnos created his scepter. Why? Can't do it himself.

Okay.

Um . . . no, because either of those super weapons could simply blow up the Star Forge.

You're going to say they created their things because they couldn't do it themselves? Wow, I didn't know that was a logical statement. I didn't know Sadow could physically fly to the sun like superman, and blow it up. Now lets just think about your statement for a minute. If they created the ship and the scepter, they could OBVIOUSLY do it themselves because THEY created them, you are just blatantly trying to downplay the characters.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
And Ragnos' scepter empowered people with force abilities. When you say you've proven it, do you mean by your ambiguous NEC text? Or you've actually proven it. I haven't seen you once prove Sidious>Ragnos unless youre going to count the "he said this" argument.

I try and try and try to be civil . . .

Look, Darth Sexy. I've already proven that the statement is not ambiguous. You haven't proven how it is. So, once again, STFU up and back up your words.

Ragnos's scepter empowered Tavion . . . who was still pwned by an above average Jedi on Korriban. The same Jedi then forced Ragnos's spirit to flee.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
You're going to say they created their things because they couldn't do it themselves? Wow, I didn't know that was a logical statement. I didn't know Sadow could physically fly to the sun like superman, and blow it up. Now lets just think about your statement for a minute. If they created the ship and the scepter, they could OBVIOUSLY do it themselves because THEY created them, you are just blatantly trying to downplay the characters.

WTF?

So Sidious could blow up planets by himself?

Unfortunately, we don't know how these objects were created. It could have been that Naga Sadow poured the power of other Sith into his flagship's device, or the same with Ragnos' staff, or even Kun's amulets.

Originally posted by Escape81
WTF?

So Sidious could blow up planets by himself?

Youre missing the point. We are talking about force powers here. I can argue that the ancient sith didn't even know about the republic, so what point was it for them to build massive warships, not to mention it being ancient times. The fact that Sidious had certain weapons created, doesn't put him above others, just because he created them for his current time. And you also kinda forget that the Death Star, the Galaxy Gun, and the World Devastator were none of his inventions. Please read DE before you continue elevating his status.

*Reads DE* You were saying?

DE II rather.. The inventions weren't his, they were the fat man's with his two little body guards who he entrusted with the dark side.

Um . . . they were Sidious's. Property of the Galactic Empire, and its emperor.

Guess who that was.

Guess who invented it? I'll give you a hint, it wasn't Sidious as yo usay.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Guess who invented it? I'll give you a hint, it wasn't Sidious as yo usay.

Inventors contracted by Sidious and the Galactic Empire. They belonged to him. That includes Bevel Lemelisk, Tarkin, and all the others.

The Galaxy Gun was created by whats his name. At any rate they weren't Sidious' inventions. Prove that Sidious didn't contract them after they created these weapons, like he did with the Governor dude and his droids.