But remember, DE Luke was only better in a saber fight. When Palpatine whipped out the force, Luke needed help from Leia and Anakin.
And the quote basically means that Palpatine is better overall. Marka may be a better force user, but would be worse in a saber fight, or the other way around.
Marka wouldn't be far behind these guys (Exar, Palps) anyways.
Again until lightsnake shows a definitive quote, logic tells us that the only thing that stays is "The MOst powerful of the most powerful, THE Dark Lord". Everything else is more speculation and fanboyism if anything. And again you have to realize that all of Palpatine's techniques were derived from the ancient sith...
Originally posted by Darth Sexy
....tdtd?
Yeah . . .
He was a big pro-Ragnos guy, too. You and he possess a lot in common. There's the fact that you both staunchly believe that Ragnos is akin to something of a Force god . . . despite actual depictions of his power.
You both possess the same disdain for Sidious and for Kun when it comes to their combat abilities . . .
You both think that Darth Revan is one of the most powerful ever . . .
And you both possess extremely limited patience, the tendancy to bash others, and, one of the biggest indicators, your impatience for Lightsnake.
Tdtd was a former user that typed like you, also believed that Revan was a Chosen One, sometimes made "Sexy" jokes (Many: Gay Luke was sexy, Palpatine was sexy, Yoda was sexy... these are only off the top of my head) and was a firm believer that the Ancient Sith > all, like you.
It could be a coincidence, and my apologies if it is.
Originally posted by Darth Sexy
I've bashed people? I've said I hated Kun? Where? And while I don't think Ragnos is a force God persay, I would put only DN Luke ahead of him for my own reasons..
You have been both very short and very impatient with myself and especially Lightsnake. And, I never said that you hated Kun or Palpatine, but that Tdtd possessed a "disdain" for them in terms of combat ability (essentially making them out to be weak), which you have implied.
I didn't think I have shown impatience with you but I do have sort of a disdain for Sidious not so much for his character, but the way people really portray him. I am sure it's very common on this forum with Sidious, as well as other characters. I've noticed Lightsnake has a particular disdain for TOTJ and the ancient sith. We all have our favorites..
I didn't think I have shown impatience with you but I do have sort of a disdain for Sidious not so much for his character, but the way people really portray him.
The question I ask everyone is "why would Lucas make the supreme villain of his saga a weakling?"
Think about it.
I am sure it's very common on this forum with Sidious, as well as other characters.
Actually, Sidious was quite despised and discredited before Lightsnake got here. I arrived to see it past its prime.
I've noticed Lightsnake has a particular disdain for TOTJ and the ancient sith. We all have our favorites..
One thing that I try not to do is allow my "favorites" cloud my judgment.
I like Sidious a lot, but I love the characters of Thrawn, Gilad Pellaeon, General Grievous (I prefer villains) - even though two of the three suck in melee combat, and the third isn't anything special.
I also like Mace and Yoda, as well as Dooku and Exar Kun.
The villain is not a weakling, but I also don't feel that he should be portrayed the way he is, and I am also trying not to pick favorites and let them cloud my judgement, but at the same time you would try and argue a lot more intelligently for characters you like, than for characters you dislike or have no opinion of.
He didn't really want Palpatine to be a weakling, but he just wanted some characters to be badasses.
Sammy wanted to be a badass Jedi with mad skills. Everyone thought he was the "pwnzors" because he was played by the "Mushroom cloud layin motherf*cka". Deus Ex Machina, I call it. Mace was built up to be Dooku's near-equal by the EU. He really shouldn't be stronger than Palpatine.
Yoda makes sense. He was a Jedi for hundreds of years and it'd be weird for anyone to be convincingly stronger.
Originally posted by Lightsnake
Outside of the jungle, in a cold sterile environment with Mace using his saber, the fight would indeed go differently. Outside of then jungle, I doubt Vastor'd walk away.
The only thing Kar really "needed" the jungle for in his fight against Mace was to manipulate some plants. I mean: The force still is the force no matter if you are on Coruscant or on Haruun Kal.
Plagueis was already planning Sidious's replacement and there was extreme tension between the two. Two quotes:
on Darth Maul: "A master would rather the apprentice fall than teach a weakling the ways of the Sith
From Dooku: "Very often, it is the Apprentice who dies."
The quote with the "weaklings" can't really apply on Sidious and the apprentice often dies in direct confrontation because of overestimating himself. The point is that according to Sidious words there were some things Plagueis was able to do and Sidious wasn't. At least not at the time of ROTS and pretty much less in times of TPM or before that.
No, it really doesn't. Stover, if anything, is a Mace fan. Don't declare something invalid simply because you don't like it.
The fact still remains that those 3 Jedi were pretty much almost easily killed by Sidious while the person that was really one of the "most skilled lightsaber combatants the order had ever seen" managed to survive more than a minute. Mace is far more skilled than Fisto, Kolar or Tiin.
It doesn't change the fact that Sidious still killed some, at the very least. And we know of quite a few Vader killed, so the figure is likely closer to the '100' mark
Yes and we know that many were hunted down by assassination commands, storm-troopers, died in actions against the Empire or were imprisoned and later slaughtered - or did simply hide away.
Dooku realized Obi-wan was a serious threat and got rid of him when he took the chance.
How would Obi-Wan be a real threat to Dooku. Dooku pretty much curbstomped him 3 years in the past and had far more lightsaber to lightsaber action than Obi-Wan during this time period. And Dooku still managed to get rid of Obi-Wan rather easily which actually speaks for the idea that he could have done the same thing with Anakin considering Obi-Wan and Anakin were stalemating each other in their force contest on Mustafar (force push).
I'm rather certain Lucas mentioned saber dueling as well...
No. Lucas left the entire "duelling" to Nick Gillard. In the specials on the ROTS DVD somebody even says that Lucas sometimes just writes "they fight" into the scripts and then Gillard shows up and figures out the swordfights. The styles and lightsaber skills are pretty much an EU topic only and if the form of lightsaber vs lightsaber combat is in decline than that speaks very clearly of the entire art of lightsaber vs lightsaber combat declining - just because the Jedi had other things to focus on while training lightsaber combat (most likely people aimed with blasters). I mean: They had no reason to belive that they would ever have to fight somebody else in lightsaber to lightsaber combat as they thought the Sith to be extinct. And even if that wouldn't have been the case: The chance for a single Jedi to meet a single Sith in lightsaber combat were 5,000 to 1 without even the thinking about the fact that the Sith didn't search direct confrontation.
Well, since Sidious, one way or another is 'more powerful', according to however KJA measures it, which, given his tossing Kun so high up...
I thought Veitch pretty much said that they said Sidious is "more powerful" because of having more knowledge.
That knowledge? Sidious's apparent attack is instant, unknown to Marka and something Sidious himself created....he only taught it to Luke.
Er Lightsnake. This is clearly a Dark Side power and therefore it must be based on other Dark Side knowledge that Sidious received before meaning that Ragnos would most certainly know the "basics" of such an attack and therefore some sort of defence. Even if he can't 100 % block it I doubt something like that would kill him.
Again I can only site Kun again resisting the wall of light Odan tried to use against him. And when you want to talk about the Sith amulets being the reason for that again: Ragnos has two of those (basically all ancients we saw in GAotS have them) and he carries another one around his neck.