Hi.God gave us free will to choose Him,or choose him not,because He loves us.That's a wonderful thing,he doesn't limit our freedom,because He loves us.There is his word and his rules,those help us through our lifes with Him if we choose to follow Him.But He never forces anyone to come to Him,or do what he wants.You have the right to choose good or bad,.It's your own decision what you do with your life.
Originally posted by AngryManatee
Because it's been shown to happen (based on recent changes in the finch species). Abiogenesis has nothing to do with evolution, only initial creation.
What you are referring to is not evolution outside of species, but to a variation within a species. This is not proof of evolution, but proof of what the Bible has stated all along: everything produces according to its kind. There are various breeds of the same finch.
"Are these finches really separate species? Oftentimes when pressed to define a “species,” evolutionist begin playing mental gymnastics—the definition being flexible enough to fit a variety of different situations. However, most agree that if animals are able to interbreed then they represent the same species. Thus, if these thirteen different finches are able to interbreed and produce fertile offspring they do not represent different species—but rather variations of a similar species. While we can measure and identify variations, they provide no evidence for organic evolution. For instance, we can mate two dogs and get a different variety—but that is not proof for macroevolution. It is simply an example of microevolution (changes within limited parameters).
The question of whether Darwin’s finches can breed between species has been extensively studied (see Grant, et al., 2003; Grant and Grant, 1996), and it has been shown that it does occur."
--Finch Study—More Fodder for Textbook Hoaxes
by Brad Harrub, Ph.D.
Originally posted by Ditte3
Hi.God gave us free will to choose Him,or choose him not,because He loves us.That's a wonderful thing,he doesn't limit our freedom,because He loves us.There is his word and his rules,those help us through our lifes with Him if we choose to follow Him.But He never forces anyone to come to Him,or do what he wants.You have the right to choose good or bad,.It's your own decision what you do with your life.
I do choose good, but, I don't believe I should be dictated to on the matter of what good is.
Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
What you are referring to is not evolution outside of species, but to a variation within a species. This is not proof of evolution, but proof of what the Bible has stated all along: everything produces according to its kind. There are various breeds of the same finch.
So the whole idea of adapting to better suit your environment is not a part of (micro)evolution? Last time I was in my Physical Anthropology, 'twas.
Originally posted by AngryManatee
So the whole idea of adapting to better suit your environment is not a part of (micro)evolution? Last time I was in my Physical Anthropology, 'twas.
But the finch example is not an example of adapting to better suit one's environment, it is simply an example of interbreeding.
Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
But the finch example is not an example of adapting to better suit one's environment, it is simply an example of interbreeding.
From Discovery News
A Galapagos finch that helped reveal the origins of species to Charles Darwin has now undergone a spurt of rapid climate-driven evolution, biologists report.
The medium ground finch (Geospiza fortis), of Daphne Island was nudged, and then shoved, to evolve a smaller beak.
This happened by the combination of competition from another finch that arrived on the island more than 20 years ago and more recent drought conditions.
"It happened very fast," says biologist Professor Peter Grant of Princeton University.
He and Dr Rosemary Grant publish their discovery in the latest issue of the journal Science.
In fact, it happened in a single bird generation, Grant explains.
The evolutionary nudging began when some larger finches settled on Daphne during an exceptionally wet El Niño in 1982.
In the years since, the larger G. magnirostris finches have been eating most of the larger, thorny seeds of the island's puncture vine plants and steadily pushing the smaller finches to rely on smaller seeds from other plants.
As a result, G. fortis birds with smaller beaks that did not compete with the larger birds did better, and were more likely to have offspring. That essentially enriched the gene pool with small beak genes and led to more G. fortis with smaller beaks.
But the matter really came to a head in 2003 and 2004, when little rain fell on the island and seeds of any kind were scarce.
"Most of the birds that had large beaks before the drought disappeared," says Grant. That included almost all of the recently arrived G. magnirostris and any remaining G. fortis with especially large beaks.
The only birds that survived enough to mate and produce offspring in 2005 were the G. fortis with smaller beaks and an ability to exploit small seeds like those of the drought-tolerant Optunia cactus.
Originally posted by AngryManatee
From Discovery NewsA Galapagos finch that helped reveal the origins of species to Charles Darwin has now undergone a spurt of rapid climate-driven evolution, biologists report.
The medium ground finch (Geospiza fortis), of Daphne Island was nudged, and then shoved, to evolve a smaller beak.
This happened by the combination of competition from another finch that arrived on the island more than 20 years ago and more recent drought conditions.
"It happened very fast," says biologist Professor Peter Grant of Princeton University.
He and Dr Rosemary Grant publish their discovery in the latest issue of the journal Science.
In fact, it happened in a single bird generation, Grant explains.
The evolutionary nudging began when some larger finches settled on Daphne during an exceptionally wet El Niño in 1982.
In the years since, the larger G. magnirostris finches have been eating most of the larger, thorny seeds of the island's puncture vine plants and steadily pushing the smaller finches to rely on smaller seeds from other plants.
As a result, G. fortis birds with smaller beaks that did not compete with the larger birds did better, and were more likely to have offspring. That essentially enriched the gene pool with small beak genes and led to more G. fortis with smaller beaks.
But the matter really came to a head in 2003 and 2004, when little rain fell on the island and seeds of any kind were scarce.
"Most of the birds that had large beaks before the drought disappeared," says Grant. That included almost all of the recently arrived G. magnirostris and any remaining G. fortis with especially large beaks.
The only birds that survived enough to mate and produce offspring in 2005 were the G. fortis with smaller beaks and an ability to exploit small seeds like those of the drought-tolerant Optunia cactus.
In the second edition of this book Darwin continued: “Seeing this gradation and diversity of structure in one small, intimately related group of birds, one might really fancy that from an original paucity of birds in this archipelago, one species had been taken and modified for different ends” (Darwin, 1909, p. 339, emp. added). Over 100 years ago, Darwin was speculating that all of these finches may simply be variations of an original pair. The evidence seems to be proving him correct. But if these birds can interbreed, then they offer no support for evolutionary theory. Could it simply be that the 13 finches Darwin collected demonstrated a “gradation” of variations brought about by breeding among various groups? If these birds can interbreed (and science has shown they can), then they no longer should be considered different species.
--Finch Study—More Fodder for Textbook Hoaxes
by Brad Harrub, Ph.D.
Originally posted by chillmeistergen
Why don't you? There's a lot more proof for it than a a bearded bloke on a cloud.
The Problem of Mathematical Improbability
Many mathematicians have looked at probability science for help with evolution. Could it have occurred by chance?
Below are some numbers. To illustrate the magnitude of these numbers, for the sake of comparison, be aware that the number of electrons in the universe is believed to be 1080.
Mathematician William Dembski calculated that if the probability of something occurring is less than one in 10150, it has no possibility of happening by chance at any time by any conceivable process throughout all of cosmic history. He further estimates that the probability of evolving the first cell is no better than one in 104,478,146. (Source: Impact magazine, November 1999)
In regard to the universe occurring by chance, researcher Hugh Ross explains that there are actually two sets of odds that interrelate: first, the unique characteristics that must be fashioned to explain the earth's capacity to support life, and second, that life could arise even on a suitably configured planet by random chance. He calculates the odds for life as remote as 1 in 10100,000,000,000. (Source: Facts and Faith magazine, Second Quarter 1998)
Yet some say that, well, given enough time, evolution could occur. But it would be like saying that putting the parts to a computer in a washing machine, and given enough time that they will assemble themselves into a functioning computer. It won't happen—no matter how much time. Mathematician/astronomer Fred Hoyle put it this way. He said that the probability of evolution creating the living world by chance is like believing that "...a tornado sweeping through a junk yard might assemble a Boeing 747 from the materials therein." (See Evolution from Space, Fred Hoyle and Chandra Wickramasingne, J.M. Dent & Sons, 1981).
Denton concludes that probability science comes "very close to a formal disproof of the whole Darwinian paradigm of nature. By what strange capacity do living organisms defy the laws of chance which are apparently obeyed by all analogous complex systems?" (2, pg. 316)
Evolutionists have been faced with such figures for many years. If they could come up with a number within the realm of possibility, they would be crowing about it. But they have not been able to do so. Life was designed; it did not evolve. The correctness of this conclusion is the inverse of the probability that eliminated evolution, that is, 104,478,296 to one.
There is one thing we can say further. Given the probabilities against evolution, if evolution did occur, it would constitute a miracle—convincing proof of God's existence.
--©1999 Christian Information Foundation. All rights reserved.
http://faithfacts.gospelcom.net/ev_origins_a.html#h
Originally posted by chillmeistergenOk.neither of us likes someone to dictate us.It's only that truth,right or wrong,these are not relative things.These are rules we can't change by not accepting them.All of us have free wills God has given us.He doesn't treat us like robots or slaves.We have the right to do whatever we want,but that doesn't mean that he wouldn't like to save us.
I do choose good, but, I don't believe I should be dictated to on the matter of what good is.
What?
the number of electrons in the universe is believed to be 1080.
He further estimates that the probability of evolving the first cell is no better than one in 104,478,146.
And that "747 through the junkyard" is like the watchmaker analogy. It's accurate, except it discounts the fact that evolution tends to keep beneficial characteristics. So, every time a piece in the junkyard blew into the right place, it would stay there while the rest kept blowing around. Theoretically, the 747 would eventually be created.
Originally posted by FeceManThe reason I asked if evolution could be intelligent is that our concept to understand about the origin of the universe is that everything is interconnected. If you were able to freeze time just prior to the Big Bang, you would see that for an instant only one common energy, one singularity existed. Everything in the universe originated from this singularity and therefore everything in the universe shares a connection to everything else. The result is our web of interconnectedness. The term for this interconnected frequencies connecting all of the information in the universe is "the field of information." Any change in one event in this web affects the whole web or universe. Everyone and everything is linked. This is why some feel "You are One with the Universe." Or some might say "You are One with God." And saying that it seems there would be some intelligence at work.
Evolution is a process. It's no more intelligent than the construction of a car.