Originally posted by leonidas
LAST NON-OFFICIAL POSTactually, prove glads did NOT rip the star in half . . .
as for the fact that we have 'nothing against it' . . . well, the fact that a silver atom (you know, the one you're using . . .) has never been shown to time travel, is rather a large bit of proof i thought . . .
as i said, no worries though. 😉
-nonofficial-
Thanks for understanding leo. 😉
I had to shorten the quotes to make up room for the post…
Originally posted by TheKahn
There are three main points…
Actually, both of your scans are irrelevant. In the first one, Magneto is not doing what he has done before, which is putting his magnetic shielding to deflect light from him. Proof in scan form is right here:
http://img53.imageshack.us/img53/4339/tnoticehim9ea.jpg
As you can see, he uses his magnetic energies to deflect anything that would require their senses to register them. That includes visible light, which is part of electromagnetic spectrum. In the picture you show, he wants the X-Men to see him. Which is why his field is not deflecting visible light. Also, he for some reason does not have his shield up when Gambit throws his cards (they have deflected them before). It’s not the bright light that goes to his eyes. It is the cards.
In your second scan, Magneto does not have his shield on; he didn’t have them on the entire issue…so it renders that scan pointless too.
Your problem seems to be that you think that every shield of Magneto’s is similar…that is not the fact. Some shields have only taken physical attacks, and some have only taken energy attacks. This is because Magneto always has only a millisecond to react to attacks, and he doesn’t have time to react to them. However, he has time here. Many minutes. So, Magneto can choose what he wants in.
Originally posted by TheKahn
But to be honest…
Magneto’s shield won’t let in visible light if he does not let it go near him.
http://img53.imageshack.us/img53/4339/tnoticehim9ea.jpg
And are you saying that Magneto, a world class genius would not have thought the fact that someone might…blind him? 🤨
Like said before. Magneto controls electromagnetism. He can make shields that deflect specific energies. He knows the properties of light perfectly, since he has mastered the use of electromagnetism. There are multiple scans stating that he is able to control the entire electromagnetic spectrum, here is just one.
http://img451.imageshack.us/img451/3257/magelectromagnetic3gu.jpg
If you haven’t got it yet, light includes EM spectrum. Something that Magneto has perfect control of is not getting past from his shields if he does not want it to.
Originally posted by TheKahn
Secondly…
Yet another mistake you make. First of all, visible light has been set to divert from his shields on prep time, because blinding is a way of attacking your opponent and Magneto is naturally smart enough to realize that, especially since that tactic has been used against him before...
Second of all, Magneto’s body is not human. When he is using his powers, the magnetic energy inside him render his body’s durability and strength to Class 100 levels, enabling him to do such things as…
Break from Hercules’s bear hug and send him flying:
http://img53.imageshack.us/img53/5774/sgrip3pj.jpg
Like you so graciously showed, take cards from Gambit straight to his eyes and not have any wounds:
http://img57.imageshack.us/img57/9268/mags25nc.jpg
Take a powerful punch from Colossus to the head while weakened, without shields and not suffer any injuries:
http://img397.imageshack.us/img397/492/magcolagain3pg.jpg
Go toe to toe with Colossus while weakened:
http://img448.imageshack.us/img448/3473/maggoesh2hwithcolossus9xs.jpg
Knock out Rogue with one gesture:
http://img448.imageshack.us/my.php?image=magphysicallybeatsrogue4vt.jpg
Go physically against some X-Men:
http://img102.imageshack.us/img102/2320/magsgetsphysical7sp.jpg
Not to mention that he was able to take full power energy assault from Bishop who had absorbed energies of nearly all energy using X-Men and the energy of the said X-Men without shield…and was still able to talk.
http://img68.imageshack.us/img68/9531/magtakesallenergyofxmen3gi.jpg
Not saying that he is immune to blinding (which won’t happen anyway) but his eyes are not human. And the pain (assuming if the light gets through…which it won’t) would not take his concentration (or the shields) away either, seeing as he has been able to lessen the effects of multiple nukes while feeling the pain equal of having electric drills through his eyes…and the nukes were right next to him. Not to mention that he actually succeeded to completely nullify the effects. And he was fine in moments (after taking another incredible pain when he channeled all the magnetic energies of the earth through him) and was able to battle top-notch condition Joseph and the X-men.
http://img107.imageshack.us/img107/3559/magtakespain1fh.jpg
Originally posted by TheKahn
As for these scans…
Don’t try going that route. 😬 Magneto clearly KNEW that photons are under his control. Dazzler’s attack itself was not a hologram. Photons are under Magneto’s control, like everything else in electromagnetic spectrum. He is able to do so. Otherwise, wouldn’t he be completely surprised that he can do the stuff? But he is not. Magneto is able to control photons and turn them back to his opponents.
Those scans are as valid as they were before.
And I think that he could not register the hologram was because he was fighting the X-Men. In same way Galactus could not register Surfer’s hologram because he was not in his right mind (even states so in your scans). It was a plot device.
Your “Galactus fooling hologram” won’t work either, because in your own scans, Surfer states that if Galactus had been in his right mind, it would have not worked.
Originally posted by TheKahn
Lastly we would…
Yet again, that doesn’t show anything. Magneto clearly did not have his shields on in that picture. He had them page prior, but it was only hastily erected one to stop the rocks from crushing him. He clearly doesn’t have one on the picture you show, since that round form that appears when his shields are shown isn’t at that picture. He will have his shields on at the start of the battle, and they will be hundreds of times more powerful then the one second shields he has done in past. Magneto is able to keep air inside his shield perfectly, as shown on the pictures below.
http://img394.imageshack.us/img394/98/magtravelstomoon7ur.jpg
http://img392.imageshack.us/img392/4606/magbreatheinspace2su.jpg
He is able to control things on molecular level (It’s kind of a requirement when you can shape adamantium in any way you want). He can control perfectly what goes inside in his shield if he has time to concentrate on them. And he has, and as the prep time said, he is shielded himself from any imaginable assault he can think of. Blinding includes that.
Originally posted by TheKahn
Now I know…
Seeing as none of the team is blinded, none of that will work…and your holograms are not Galactus fooling ones. They are Galactus-who-is-not-in-his-right-mind-fooling ones.
They would not fool our team at all. They are just energy.
And as for now, I would like to state that it’s quite odd that you are using Pre-Crisis Hal scans. As we all know, Pre-Crisis is not in continuity, and Post-Crisis Hal is a different character with different background. I am pretty sure that it’s not valid to use Pre-Crisis scans. I find this funny, since you were the ones saying that we can’t use Wildstorm Atom (Though he is in continuity…Pre-Crisis Hal is not).
And even if you could show Hal doing invisibility in Post-Crisis, it only fools eyes. Not the extra senses all our characters have.
Originally posted by TheKahn
Now I believe…
The shield does not allow in visible light if Magneto wants so, something that already has been established. And where does your scan state that Surfer is smaller then a photon (they are pretty damn small)? And he also did not seem to know where he was in microverse, he had to get larger to see that he was in the horsehead nebula, so in that size, I’d find it hard to him to navigate to Magneto, even if he is moving with light speed.
He won’t be able to do it with Morg being all over his ass anyway.
And I believe Morg indeed might swing that way, so he might be all over his ass in the literal sense too. 😛
Originally posted by TheKahn
*The Surfer could just…
First of all, his shields have nothing to do with electricity. Even if he’d render his body electrically neutral (which I am not sure how he does anyway) the shield would still affect his molecules, because Magneto and his shields can affect things at molecular level. Just ask Vision or Shadowcat.
Second, Bishop was not absorbing the shield, but the energy that was all around the place because of the Avalon being above them and the energy that Magneto radiated because he was angry. He was not absorbing energy from the shields, seeing as Magneto did not have shields on in the first place.
Transmuting was banned, I believe, otherwise we could just have either Magneto or Atom transform their bodies or clothes to pure adamantium or shit like that.
Something not being magnetic won’t help the thing, because Magneto can increase the effect of magnetism in non ferrous things by millions of times. This is shown when he affects stuff like ceramic and plastic with just a thought. Not to mention that he is able to affect stuff on molecular level…
http://img451.imageshack.us/img451/2610/magtakesonplasticandceramic7lu.jpg
Originally posted by TheKahn
Now to deal with the issue of Captain Atom. I wish to clear up an issue with which version of Captain Atom is being used in this fight and how that relates to feats claimed by Batdude.As for these scans:
http://img81.imageshack.us/img81/6027/captimetravel15mi.jpg
http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/7104/captimetravel27kq.jpgGentlemen, if you're so certain that time travel (which has been banned and is consequently an illegal power btw) is really is a part of "silver" Captain Atom's power-set, and you're so sure there really IS no difference between the Wildstorm Atom and D.C. Atom, all you would need to do is find a scan of silver Captain Atom voluntarily traveling through time. The void provides time traveling abilities and reality altering abilities. He was given the Void sliver at the beginning of the series. How can we fairly allow a Void-enhanced Atom who shows time travel abilities he has never shown before WITHOUT the Void, be allowed in this debate? Who knows WHY Atom said what he said? Fact remains he hasn't SHOWN the ability before, and you can't claim he has it without proof. Regardless, as was mentioned already, said ability would be illegal in any event.
Kahn, I don’t think you are understanding the situation at hand. The void powers in him weren’t activated until the very end of the series (Captain Atom: Armageddon #9). Apollo set off the void powers inside him then.
Here’s the blast that set it off.
http://img183.imageshack.us/my.php?image=svoid4lj.jpg
“What was the end result,” you might ask yourself. A big, scary Captain Atom that was never seen before.
http://img430.imageshack.us/my.php?image=captainatomandapollo0bx.jpg
http://img503.imageshack.us/my.php?image=captainatomandmidnighter1ce.jpg
http://img470.imageshack.us/my.php?image=captainatomandjenny8hr.jpg
http://img470.imageshack.us/my.php?image=captainatomandjenny21hx.jpg
Alright, if you don’t believe me about the whole “Quantum Leap” trick, then who will you believe? How about Captain Atom himself? Btw, this happened in Captain Atom: Armageddon #7. Here’s what he said right before he preformed the trick:
“I’m not really sure. One of the Quantum boys taught me this trick. With a little concentration, I can flash forward a week or so. Now… Please… stand back, Angie. And take Nikola with you. It’s been a long time since I’ve done this.”
So, that proves my point right there. It is the same Captain Atom, and the feats can be used for the match.
So, on to Hal Jordan. Like I said, he could absorb some of the Oan energy right out of the ring itself, thus making the ring less effective. That also goes for the construct and shields as well. He could absorb the energy out of those as well. With that done, Hal will have to strain himself very hard in order to get the full effect. Also, Green Lanterns have said before that when they use it, they feel a tremendous amount of pain. Making the ring less effective would result in Hal being in an even more amount of pain. So, Hal will be in a bit of a spot here. With this, Captain Atom would expel all types of energy. He would give Hal one of his Atomic blasts, and along with this, he would expel radiation of all types (gamma, uranium, plutonium, etc.). Not only would Hal be getting attacked by the initial blast, but he would be attack on an atomic level, and wouldn’t know it. The blast, and radiation would take its toll on an already exhausted, and hurt Hal Jordan. If all fails, Captain Atom could easily distract Hal until one of his teammates (Morg or Magneto) could help him out. Also, I forgot to mention that you used some Pre-Crisis Hal Jordan feats in your initial strategy that Digi posted. I don’t know if you got the memo, but everything Pre-Crisis was retconned. 😉 So, a lot of what you showed us about Hal’s feats are not to be counted.
Btw, there is the fact that this battle takes place on Mars. Mars is almost completely made up of iron like DC mentioned before. So, the battle ground in which this fight is taking place on, would be under total control of Magneto’s powers. Everyone on your team would be susceptible to the attacks, considering they’re standing on it.
Originally posted by illadelph12
[Judges note]Post count:
DC: 3/9 (Unless Digi deems first post as prep post)
Leo: 2/9
Bat: 1/9
Kahn: 2/9As for the Surfer solar flare attack, I've seen no evidence either way that it would effect or not effect Magneto. Captain Atom has been shown to be at least momentarily susceptible to extreme luminal exposure.
More evidence is required in the case of Magneto.
At this point, and given his powerset, I'm leaning towards the solar flare attack not permanently disabling him, if at all, but this stance is not permanent and can be changed or affirmed with proper and more conclusive evidence being provided.
Be careful of your post counts also. It's only Monday.
-non official-
Leo actually has three posts. 😉
[Judges note]
Post count:
DC: 5/9 (Unless Digi deems first post as prep post)
Leo: 3/9
Bat: 3/9
Kahn: 4/9
Digi, on page 3 there's a sequence of posts that weren't deemed non-official, but I assumed they were. Could you clarify. I only added one of these for DC and Leo until I saw what the line of dialogue pertained too. These unnofficial posts are throwing me off.
Originally posted by illadelph12
[Judges note]Post count:
DC: 5/9 (Unless Digi deems first post as prep post)
Leo: 3/9
Bat: 3/9
Kahn: 4/9Digi, on page 3 there's a sequence of posts that weren't deemed non-official, but I assumed they were. Could you clarify. I only added one of these for DC and Leo until I saw what the line of dialogue pertained too. These unnofficial posts are throwing me off.
I can understand the problem keeping track of all of them. However I've only made 3 post relating to strategy in this debate. Two on page 1 and one on page 3. 😬
[Judge's Note]
Originally posted by TheKahn
I can understand the problem keeping track of all of them. However I've only made 3 post relating to strategy in this debate. Two on page 1 and one on page 3. 😬
You also have a post on page 2 which Validus asked you if it was official and you said it was. It includes scans and an argumrent.
I'm about to perform a recount right now.
Originally posted by illadelph12
[Judge's Note]You also have a post on page 2 which Validus asked you if it was official and you said it was. It includes scans and an argumrent.
I'm about to perform a recount right now.
Damn, I mistyped that. I have 2 responses on the first page and 1 response on the second. Sorry for mix-up, Illadelph. 🙁
i'm pretty tired of the whole blinding mags issue. it has ABSOLUTELY NO BEARING ON THE FACT THAT HE DIES LESS THAN A MOMENT LATER. consequently, i'll address some of dc's points quickly:
first dc, we never once contended that he couldn't control light. we said that: (a) it can be used to stagger and blind him if he is not expecting it (our scans show that) and (b) he needs to consciously WILL this ability into being. now, since he was not stated to be (a) invisible at the start of the fight, his shield was not (b) stated to be opaque at the start of the fight, or (c) that he himself was not BLIND so could see through his shield, you apparently DID come into the battle willing to allow visible light to enter the shield. and NO, none of that rubbish about his 'preparing for all types of imaginable attacks' will fly here. none of the above were stated after the fight began so again, there is no possible doubt that he came into the fight willing to let visible light in through his shield. knowing that, his entirely human reflexes would NOT allow him to adjust AFTER he's seen the flash. Our avengers scan clearly showed that to be the case.
mags=blind
as far as your scans: the fact that you think he (UNSHIELDED) took 3 cards to the face and got up – UNBURNED – only a moment later, says more than I could ever say about that interpretation. but maybe you're right. maybe he was just dumb enough to DROP his shield in the middle of his fight. and this is the 'world class genius' you expect me and everyone else to believe thought of 'every imagineable type of attack'?? he 'apparently' did the same thing against the avengers. (earlier he was unaffected by wasp's stings to the head then took a full force punch FROM BEHIND from namor. you think he was 'unshielded' again?) but maybe you're right and he was just too dumb to keep his shield up AGAIN in the middle of the fight. either interpretation is fine to us. 😄
Magneto’s shield won’t let in visible light if he does not let it go near him.
correct. IF he anticipates it. in the case of this debate he clearly hasn't.
And are you saying that Magneto, a world class genius would not have thought the fact that someone might…blind him?
😆
Yet another mistake you make. First of all, visible light has been set to divert from his shields on prep time
nuh-uh, sunshine. the characters would have noticed a difference in his shield. see above. 😉
Second of all, Magneto’s body is not human.
your scans are meaningless. ss kills him in the first instants of the fight. disprove this first, then i'll address your scans in detail.
Photons are under Magneto’s control, like everything else in electromagnetic spectrum.
😆
yet he didn't realize that a whole group of them were actually standing THREE FEET AWAY FROM HIM??
And I think that he could not register the hologram was because he was fighting the X-Men.
😑
Galactus could not register Surfer’s hologram because he was not in his right mind
too bad for you mags WAS in his right mind . . .
He clearly doesn’t have one on the picture you show, since that round form that appears when his shields are shown isn’t at that picture.
no bubble no shield? ridiculous. he's had skin-tight shields before. you yourself said his shields are all different. but they're all bubbles?? nuh-uh.
he is shielded himself from any imaginable assault he can think of. Blinding includes that.
apparently not . . . and given some of the stunts you claim where he keeps dropping his shield in the middle of battles, it's not too hard to believe . . .
They would not fool our team at all. They are just energy.
and yet we showed:
-- 2 scans of atom being fooled, you YOURSELF showed a scan of mags being fooled, and you have YET to prove morg has cosmic awareness on any level at all!
And where does your scan state that Surfer is smaller then a photon . . .
good lord, dc . . . THAT is your 'counter'?? sigh . . .
m'man, in the scan he shrank so small he LEFT THE UNIVERSE! we're not having him go QUITE that small, just small enough that the em force is non-existent to him. and the reason he was lost? HE FOUND HIMSELF IN A WHOLE NEW UNIVERSE! he entered the microverse. and you cannot actually think (really this time) that anyone will honestly think that, in the space between ss and magneto, that the ss would get . . . lost??? he has some of the best cosmic awareness in the UNIVERSE! for some reason, you think he'd have a hard time being small, eh? you think he's slower. you think he loses his senses. dude, no. just . . . no.
anyway, as is pretty obvious to anyone reading -- they HAVE no counter to ss's attack. magneto dies less than a moment into the fight and almost instantly the fight is 3 on 2 for us.
He won’t be able to do it with Morg being all over his ass anyway.
dude, WE have the speed. WE decide who attacks who. besides:
(a) prove morg is fast enough to intercept ss
(b) prove he has SOME cosmic awareness and could even detect ss when he's moving so fast and is so small.
good luck. 😉
First of all, his shields have nothing to do with electricity.
dc, electricity and magnetism are INTIMATELY related. that's why it's the ELECTROMAGNETIC force. the em force affects only + or - charged matter or energy. it would be nothing for ss to render his own skin chargeless and walk through your shield. it's not phasing. vision and shadowcat are 'charged'. even phased.
He was not absorbing energy from the shields, seeing as Magneto did not have shields on in the first place.
ANOTHER time where he dropped his shields in battle? are you sure he has them on at the start of THIS fight? you seem to have left the thinking up to him. if THAT'S the case, i say there are even odds he's shieldless . . .
Transmuting was banned
transmuting the environment is fair game and you have not countered THAT possibility either. teeny weeny ss kills mags in the first instants. then it's atom's turn . . .
re: the pre-c feats: hal is kahn’s he’ll address that. for my part, max's invisibility is redundant (she teleports behind a light-staggered atom), ss's invisibility is redundant (he's small beyond seeing) and morg is fooled by a hologram so it doesn't matter anyway.
Bat-my-dude: So, you won the ability to time travel back. Well done. You sure argued strenuously for that. Maybe because you knew loading atom at the start was risky because any additional energy would push him over the edge and make him jump. You likely didn’t care though, because you knew he could travel back. And it appears he can. So, that only leaves a few things left for you to deal with: When max teleports behind a BLIND atom and attacks him (because you’ve never ONCE countered this, but rather ignored it and keep saying atom attacks hal) and overloads him (see my scan) he will jump. All you have to do is:
(a) prove specifically how long he was actually away in your scan. All the girl says is “back so soon?” that is IN NO WAY indicative of the passage of time. Seconds? Prove it. Minutes? Prove it. Hours? Could be, because perhaps she is comparing it to previous jumps where it took DAYS to come back!! So prove how much time passed in your scan.
(b) you’ll need to prove to me that he can jump back to the battle WITHOUT knowing how far he jumped FORWARD. In your scan, the first thing he does is grab a paper to find out WHEN he is. With that info, he can obviously travel back. But if he has no idea (and there are no papers to check on mars – unless in his all-encompassing prep mags hid some around the planet . . .) WHEN he is, how will he know WHEN to come back to? So, prove he can jump back without knowing where he jumped to.
(c) explain how it is you know that he doesn't travel FURTHER than "about a week" forward. your quote:
“I’m not really sure. One of the Quantum boys taught me this trick. With a little concentration, I can flash forward a week or so. . .”
as full of energy as he is, he could potentially leap forward several weeks. hell, one time he jumped what, 6 YEARS!!? so, while your proving the above 2 points, prove he doesn't jump forward more than a week. 😉
to sum up: blind or not, ss’s attack kills mags. blinded by the light, atom can do nothing while max teleports behind him and overloads him. If he isn’t overloaded, he’s ko’d by the psi-attack, (as many of the very top tier have been) or the multiple superman level punches she lands on him after he’s been staggered and psi-blasted to crap. Even if he DOES hang on, ss arrives only MOMENTS later and they polish him off easily.
for YOUR parts:
prove the time travel questions. Prove morg has cosmic senses. Prove atom isn’t blind. Prove your team has any way to decide who attacks who. Prove ss’s attack can be stopped. you've not even countered our biggest offense: SS shrinks below the threshold of the em force. Max teleports behind atom and overloads him or just takes him out.
Please convince SOMEONE that you can actually stop us or affect us in any way at all. Sh!t or get off the pot ladies!! 😄
Respectfully, leo
First, I would just like to take the time to say Leo's and my plan never depended on Magneto being blind to work. Hell, the whole point of the nova flash attack was simply to provide our team with cover while we turned ourselves invisible and created the holograms. This, added to our superior speed, allows us to dictate the terms of the fight. The fact that it would blind Magneto and Captain Atom was only an added bonus.
The fact of the matter is that as soon as the Surfer creates the nova flash and the holograms, he will be headed towards Magneto at light speed. With the Surfer traveling at such a speed, Magneto's human reaction times are woefully inadequate to enable him to do anything, literally. He doesn't even have time to form a single thought or preform a single act. This is the same circumstance that the Hulk or Juggernaut has faced on this forum when placed against Superman countless times before. They are all far too slow to face off in any real way against opponents with this kind of speed.
Along the way the Surfer will shrink down in size to the point where Magneto's electromagnetic energy will not affect him as Leo has already explained in depth. Once inside the shield the Surfer can kill Magneto in more ways than I could possibly list here.
But say that isn't enough for you, say you want more carnage, say you want to see Magneto die over and over again. Well the Cosmic Caballeros are happy to oblige. Alternately, the Surfer could:
*absorb Magneto's shield, as Bishop has done
*wrap Magneto in non-ferrous materials which neutralizes his powers, as a Sentinel has done
*Or, if your just damn tired of all this talk about shields, the Surfer could just transmute all the air in Magneto's shield into hydrochloric acid.
The moral of the story, boys and girls, is that in a bare moment after the fight has started Magneto is dead no matter if he is blind or not blind, shielded or not shielded, original recipe or extra crispy. It just doesn't matter.
Originally posted by DarkCrawler
Transmuting was banned, I believe
Sorry, transmutation is perfectly allowable. The only thing that has been banned is direct transmutation of an opponent's body. The environment and everything else is fair game. 🙂
---------------------------------
Now on to Captain Atom. I know a great deal has been said on overloading Capitan Atom with energy, but I'd like to talk about the physical aspect of the fight with him.
As we can easily see from the Captain Atom vs Mary Marvel fight, which DC comics treats as canon, Captain Atom is a bit of a physical lightweight. The problem is that in this fight, a blind Captain Atom will be facing two invisible opponents who are far superior in terms of physical combat.
And as we can see a Captain Atom who can't see his opponents isn't an EFFECTIVE Captain Atom:
Did Major Force just rip-off the Thing? 😑
As I have already shown the Surfer was able to take on and overload a character who had 50x the power of Gladiator and had the Uni-Power. While Leo has posted several scans demonstrating the impressive level of Maxima's physical and telepathic powers along with a list of the top tier characters she has taken down. Captain Atom will be facing both of these characters while suffering from a debilitating handicap. To put it mildly, he will quickly find himself in a world of trouble.
Hell, Batdude hasn't even attempted to explain how Captain Atom could possibly withstand the attacks Leo is having Maxima preform, much less how he can stand up to both characters at the same time.
------------------------------------
Now we have to give Hal and Morg a little love as they have really been sitting on the sidelines of this debate.
First to the question of whether Hal's pre-Crisis feats are in continuity. Unfortunately for Batdude and DarkCrawler they are. You see while his origin was altered in Emerald Dawn, all his Pre-Crisis feats are valid since the entire GLC save for Guy Gardner were in another dimension during Crisis. The ORIGINAL reason he had gray hair on the Post Crisis Earth was to show that he wasn't rebooted and thus was older than Superman, Batman and the rest.
Keep in mind that our entire team has the advantage of being invisible and in the fight between Hal and Morg this truly comes to the forefront. You see DarkCrawler and Batdude have failed to prove that Morg has cosmic awareness or any other ability that would allow him to detect Hal. Thus Morg is reduced to little more than a punching bag for a guy who can take on the entire JLA and move/destroy planetary objects with a thought. As if that wasn't bad enough soon after the other two members of our team finish trouncing Magneto and Captain Atom, they will all gang up on Morg assuming he is still conscious.
Once again thank you for your time. 🙂
🤘 Stay Kahny.....Keep Kahning.....uummm...Bub?.... I'm gonna have to work on this part.
Originally posted by leonidas
Bat-my-dude: So, you won the ability to time travel back. Well done. You sure argued strenuously for that. Maybe because you knew loading atom at the start was risky because any additional energy would push him over the edge and make him jump. You likely didn’t care though, because you knew he could travel back. And it appears he can. So, that only leaves a few things left for you to deal with: When max teleports behind a BLIND atom and attacks him (because you’ve never ONCE countered this, but rather ignored it and keep saying atom attacks hal) and overloads him (see my scan) he will jump.
Alright, leoboy. I think it’s hilarious that one of your main arguments against Captain Atom is to “overload” him with energy. You act as if he’s a sponge and can’t control what is absorbed in his body. That couldn’t be further from the truth. He only absorbs what he wants to. He is in complete control of that. His body doesn’t just absorb energy willy nilly. So, I really don’t see how you are going to overload him when he doesn’t have to absorb energy. Energy attacks against Captain Atom isn’t just the be all to end all. Captain Atom has to actually make the effort of absorbing the energy for him to be “overloaded.”
Originally posted by leonidas
(a)prove [b]specifically how long he was actually away in your scan. All the girl says is “back so soon?” that is IN NO WAY indicative of the passage of time. Seconds? Prove it. Minutes? Prove it. Hours? Could be, because perhaps she is comparing it to previous jumps where it took DAYS to come back!! So prove how much time passed in your scan. [/B]
Okay, so here we have Captain Atom Quantum leaping to the future. It takes him the blink of an eye to actually travel to the future. However, while he was there, he spotted Nikola and talked to her. He then took her newspaper and went back. Now, he couldn’t have been gone for minutes or hours. The duration between panels is 1-2 seconds. He went there, talked to her, and came back. It was about 10 seconds. Now, he would be a lot faster if he didn’t fool around and look for somebody to talk to. Without a goal, he could go back instantly.
http://img422.imageshack.us/my.php?image=squantumleap3hd.jpg
http://img402.imageshack.us/my.php?image=squantumleap25tr.jpg
Originally posted by leonidas
(b)you’ll need to prove to me that he can jump back to the battle WITHOUT knowing how far he jumped FORWARD. In your scan, the first thing he does is grab a paper to find out WHEN he is.
That’s the best you can do? 😆 He didn’t use the newspaper to give him a clue when to come back. Where did you get that idea? He brought the newspaper back only for evidence that the universe hadn’t blown up yet, and that’s it. He showed Angie that there was a working printing press in the future, and that there couldn’t have been a printing press if the universe blew up.
Originally posted by leonidas
(c) explain how it is you know that he doesn't travel FURTHER than "about a week" forward.
as full of energy as he is, he could potentially leap forward several weeks. hell, one time he jumped what, 6 YEARS!!? so, while your proving the above 2 points, prove he doesn't jump forward more than a week. 😉
Why would he even travel into the future anyway in the first place? He can stop his body from taking in more energy. Like I said, the times he jumps forward in the time dimension it is to serve a point in the overall plot of the story. Well, there is no plot in this story, and we make up the scenarios. He isn’t a sponge, like I said. He’s in complete control of that aspect. He can dump any excess energy that he is carrying around, or he can turn it into more strength, more durability, and/or more speed.
Originally posted by DigiMark007
Prep time:
During prep time our team will utilize Maxima's and the Surfer's telepathic abilities to 1)share information about their opponents (ie Hal and Maxima gets the Surfer's knowledge and experience dealing with Morg, ect) and to 2)share certain skills among each other (ie the Surfer would get Hal's and Maxima's h2h training and experience, ect). And of course they will plan out their strategy for the fight.Initial fight plan:
In the first millisecond of the fight the Surfer will blind the other team with his nova attack (obviously Hal would act quickly to protect himself and Maxima).
I have to admit leo, starting off the fight this way is very creative and I commend you for it. 😉 However, there are a couple of major flaws with this. Nowhere in your prep statement did you say that Hal had his shield up for the upcoming fight. Also, nowhere did it state that Hal was shielding Maxima as well, which is crucial for this fight. For the initial attack plan, you say that Silver Surfer would “in the first MILLISECOND of the fight” “blind the other team with his nova attack.” Great plan, except for this part: “Obviously Hal would act quickly to protect himself and Maxima.” The problem with that is, Hal is still a HUMAN BEING with human reaction times. He can’t react within the time frame that Surfer would take to blind our team. So, in essence you would be blinding your teammates. 😆 Now, this “nova” attack isn’t a lethal attack, it would just blind somebody. Green Lantern “auto shields” don’t go up unless the incoming attack was a lethal one. However, let’s just say that Hal’s auto shielding WOULD go up when Silver Surfer used this method of attacking (which they wouldn’t). As far as I know, the auto shields wouldn’t be able to block out the light unless the wearer himself willed it to block out the light coming in. Not only that, the auto shields would only protect himself, and Maxima would be out of the construct. So leo, you just basically blinded your own team in the beginning. Thanks! 😆 That saved us a lot of trouble. 😄 DC will take care of how Magneto’s shields will reflect the light away from our team, and continue about what Morg would do.
Captain Atom can get this close to the sun without it affecting his eyes in the SLIGHTEST bit. Silver Surfer’s attack may make him flinch and cover his eyes, but will most certainly not blind him. ❌
http://img167.imageshack.us/my.php?image=captainatomandthesun6ve.jpg
So, our plan will continue as before. Btw, here are a couple of nifty scans of Captain Atom taking it to Hal Jordan. Note: Hal’s ring was running on the old process meaning that it had infinite power for 24 hours. When Hal said that his ring’s charge was running low, he just meant that it was approaching its time limit, and not that it was any weaker than normal.
http://img82.imageshack.us/my.php?image=actioncomicsweekly63001greenla.jpg
http://img82.imageshack.us/my.php?image=actioncomicsweekly630022zr.jpg
http://img82.imageshack.us/my.php?image=actioncomicsweekly630035rv.jpg
http://img82.imageshack.us/my.php?image=actioncomicsweekly630044jy.jpg
http://img43.imageshack.us/my.php?image=actioncomicsweekly630059gm.jpg
http://img43.imageshack.us/my.php?image=actioncomicsweekly630067ju.jpg
http://img43.imageshack.us/my.php?image=actioncomicsweekly630070fz.jpg
Originally posted by leonidas
it has [b]ABSOLUTELY NO BEARING ON THE FACT THAT HE DIES LESS THAN A MOMENT LATER. consequently, i'll address some of dc's points quickly:first dc, we never once contended that he couldn't control light. we said that: (a) it can be used to stagger and blind him if he is not expecting it (our scans show that) and (b) he needs to consciously WILL this ability into being. now, since he was not stated to be (a) invisible at the start of the fight, his shield was not (b) stated to be opaque at the start of the fight, or (c) that he himself was not BLIND so could see through his shield, you apparently DID come into the battle willing to allow visible light to enter the shield. [/B]
And tell me, why won’t him preparing to all types of imaginable attacks cover BLINDING too? First of all, blinding is one of the most obvious attacks in the history of mankind. Second of all, Magneto has been attacked this way before. I don’t see no reason why he could not prepare for this.
Originally posted by leonidas
mags=blind
Nope…
Originally posted by leonidas
as far as your scans: the fact that you think he (UNSHIELDED) took 3 cards to the face and got up – UNBURNED – only a moment later, says more than I could ever say about that interpretation. but maybe you're right. maybe he was just dumb enough to DROP his shield in the middle of his fight. and this is the 'world class genius' you expect me and everyone else to believe thought of 'every imagineable type of attack'??
Mag’s durability is superhuman. All those things I stated that he took without shield, he took without shield. He’s gone toe to toe with the likes of Colossus and Rogue without his shield. Even his bio states that he can increase his strength magnetically. And I have no idea why he dropped his shield, but he clearly did so…seeing as his shield was able to take an attack from Phoenix, and Gambit’s cards were deflected by his shield before. And in this fight he will not be dropping his shield.
Originally posted by leonidas
correct. IF he anticipates it. in the case of this debate he clearly hasn't.
Anticipate that someone might blind him when he has been blinded before?
Yeah, he has.
Originally posted by leonidas
nuh-uh, sunshine. the characters would have noticed a difference in his shield. see above. 😉
If Magneto wanted to see in normal way, what would just stop him from letting in the non-harmful wavelengths of the light…bright lights have different wavelengths.
Originally posted by leonidas
your scans are meaningless. ss kills him in the first instants of the fight. disprove this first, then i'll address your scans in detail.
Sure, why not?
Well, since you failed to mention this one before, creating a bright light like in this scan:
http://photobucket.com/albums/b305/surfistaprateado/silver_surfer_1988_016_13.jpg
Did not even actually blind the Invisible Woman/Malice (whose body was still human) for any more then a moment, did not cause incredible pain, and it ALSO drained Surfer, so you just rendered him to a level where Morg can simply cut his head off without him having the power him in him to stop it…
http://photobucket.com/albums/b305/surfistaprateado/silver_surfer_1988_016_14.jpg
Looks like the whole “Brighter then nova” thing was just hyperbole. That won’t take out ANY of our team, even if it hit (Which it won’t).
Originally posted by leonidas
]😆yet he didn't realize that a whole group of them were actually standing THREE FEET AWAY FROM HIM??
He clearly did not use all his abilities there…seeing as he has been able to use his magnetic abilities to give him sensory abilities in past.
Originally posted by leonidas
no bubble no shield? ridiculous. he's had skin-tight shields before. you yourself said his shields are all different.
Usually when he has shield it shows some kind of field around him. And EVEN if he had shields, they were clearly not in full power...
Originally posted by leonidas
apparently not . . . and given some of the stunts you claim where he keeps dropping his shield in the middle of battles, it's not too hard to believe . . .
Plot devices. Me and batdude are controlling Magneto, and he won’t be dropping his shields.
Originally posted by leonidas
m'man, in the scan he shrank so small he LEFT THE UNIVERSE! we're not having him go QUITE that small, just small enough that the em force is non-existent to him. and the reason he was lost? HE FOUND HIMSELF IN A WHOLE NEW UNIVERSE! he entered the microverse. and you cannot actually think (really this time) that anyone will honestly think that, in the space between ss and magneto, that the ss would get . . . lost??? he has some of the best cosmic awareness in the UNIVERSE! for some reason, you think he'd have a hard time being small, eh? you think he's slower. you think he loses his senses. dude, no. just . . . no.
Seeing as he is entirely in a whole new universe, like you said…and actually, microverse is an entirely new DIMENSION (And I am not sure if dimension travel is even legal, doesn’t matter anyway), and I think that his cosmic awareness is not on the level that he can perfectly know what happens in an another dimension, while he is shrunk to the size that the span between them is practically limitless, even if he is traveling with light speed (In that size, even if he’d travel with light speed, it would take him quite a long to go there, seeing as an atom would be a size of a solar system, and it takes like eight hours for light to travel our solar system). Sure, he could go with warp speed, but who knows where he ends up by them?
Honestly, it looked like me that shrinking to that size was a last ditch effort, and he would not know where he was on such small size. Actually, he did NOT know where he was. As soon as he entered our dimension, he did.
Originally posted by leonidas
(a) prove morg is fast enough to intercept ss
(b) prove he has SOME cosmic awareness and could even detect ss when he's moving so fast and is so small.
a) Seeing as it was stated multiple times by multiple characters that Morg’s cosmic power rivals/is greater then Surfers, seeing as Morg has traveled with warp speeds, seeing as his battles with Surfer were quite equal, and seeing as he has dodged/absorbed light speed attacks before, I don’t see how he is not.
b) Prove that Silver Surfer can even find his way to somewhere in such size. 🙂
Originally posted by leonidas
dc, electricity and magnetism are INTIMATELY related. that's why it's the ELECTROMAGNETIC force. the em force affects only + or - charged matter or energy. it would be nothing for ss to render his own skin chargeless and walk through your shield. it's not phasing. vision and shadowcat are 'charged'. even phased.
Neutrons (If you don’t know, they are non-charged particles) are still affected by electromagnetis because of the quarks (which are smallest particles ever) inside them are affected by all fundamental forces in the Universe. If he has matter manipulation abilities on QUARK scale (which I don’t believe he has either) sure, I guess he gets through…but I doubt he has…and I don’t think he has rendered anything in himself non-electrical. The best he could do would be possibly creating opposite charge, and even then Magneto could affect him.
He won’t be able to do that either with Morg attacking him.
Originally posted by leonidas
ANOTHER time where he dropped his shields in battle? are you sure he has them on at the start of THIS fight? you seem to have left the thinking up to him. if THAT'S the case, i say there are even odds he's shieldless . . .
“Plot devices. Me and batdude are controlling Magneto, and he won’t be dropping his shields.“
Originally posted by leonidas
transmuting the environment is fair game and you have not countered THAT possibility either. teeny weeny ss kills mags in the first instants. then it's atom's turn . . .
What stops Magneto changing it back? He IS able to manipulate things in molecular/photon scale, you know…and how is Surfer going to do all this when Morg is attacking him?
