Originally posted by Archangelysses
But seriously,Anakin was created by the force. Plaguies could compel the force to do so. this is fact
Fact - we do not know when Sidious replaced Plagueis as Master
Fact is that we have no proof Plagueis could actualy create life or stop people from dieing. All we have to go on is the word of a great liar. I believe he told Anakin help confuse him and to trick him into joining him. Fact is Anakin's mom was a slave. As we know as a slave it is likely that her former master's passed her around among some of his or her's friends. She could have been raped several times. Naturaly she would not want to admit it or believe that a child as as kind as her son could be born of such violence. So she just said there was no father. Or they drugged her up so much that she forgot all about the incidents.
There could have been many other explanations. Fact of the matter is we will never know the truth.
We know that Sidious is a Master manipulator but could you actually show proof of lying.
We have Sidious stating that Plagueis was able to influence the midi chlorians to create life. Would Sidious lie about this, Maybe, for what possible reason. Would have been more of a fashionable lie to talk about cheating death, not creating life.
Sidious's whole office was a declaration of Sith Power with staturary and tapestries and bas relief sculptures depicting the Jedi/Sith war involving one Mr. Darth Bane. Would Sidious overly state his Master's Ability, Maybe. Quite Possible that he is telling the truth though. THis is the Sith who brought about the Endgame, who took control of the galaxy and got revenge, So his Master would have to be something special to have trained up Sidious.
If not Plagueis that created Anakin, it could only then be Sidious that performed the feat.
THat many Midi CHlorians in one person, could not have been random chance.
Originally posted by Archangelysses
We know that Sidious is a Master manipulator but could you actually show proof of lying.We have Sidious stating that Plagueis was able to influence the midi chlorians to create life. Would Sidious lie about this, Maybe, for what possible reason. Would have been more of a fashionable lie to talk about cheating death, not creating life.
Sidious's whole office was a declaration of Sith Power with staturary and tapestries and bas relief sculptures depicting the Jedi/Sith war involving one Mr. Darth Bane. Would Sidious overly state his Master's Ability, Maybe. Quite Possible that he is telling the truth though. THis is the Sith who brought about the Endgame, who took control of the galaxy and got revenge, So his Master would have to be something special to have trained up Sidious.
If not Plagueis that created Anakin, it could only then be Sidious that performed the feat.
THat many Midi CHlorians in one person, could not have been random chance.
It is possible that Anakin always wondered about who his father was. I am sure by ROTS that he knew he had no father. So palpatine told him this to get his attention.
Another possible reason is that Palpatine was trying to show Anakin that the jedi do not know everything and was trying to create distrust between anakin and the jedi. Also if you notice in those lines, he mentions being able to save the ones you love from dieing or something like that. But he needed to start the story out about creating life to get Anakin interested. All stories, lies or truth must have a beginning and an end. I for one believe he was lieing.
I agree that Sidious had no knowledge of Anakin on Tatooine.
But considering the way that we have had the force described/written about by GL, and the way that Sidious refers in both the OT and PT that everything is going as planned/as foreseen. Then my argument is that Palpatine/Sidious was aware of which Sith Lord would be his ultimate Apprentice. Also that he had seen that this child would be found by Qui-Gon Jinn.
I do however believe that Plagueis created Anakin in the belief that Anakin would become his Apprentice. As even Sidious states that Anakin would be more powerful than him.
Therefore, Plagueis learns/discovers said power, creates Anakin to bring about the end game, but then gets shivved in his sleep by ungrateful current apprentice. Betrayal is the way of the sith after all.
All of this is opinion and speculation, that will prolly never be proved.
if he forsaw Anakin's birth then he wouldnt have wasted his time with Maul, and just gone after the child as a infant, the whole time he was training maul he was just biding his time, he could have done that without an apprentince, and just trained anakin from birth, IF things are how you say. I also agree that he was was lying. Just another ruse, to sow more distrust amongst him and the ones who were closest to him. The sith lie, sidious lies, all Sith have lied one way or another to get what they want. he lied to Count Dooku, he double crossed the Nemodians twice along witht he rest of the serpeartists using Dooku as a mask, he also lied to those in the senate who wanted democracy and a peaceful solution to the war, the list goes on......
and Tangible pretty much sum it up in a nut shell, Sidious at the time didnt know how to cheat death, i don think he ever knew either, because his cloning shit wasnt getting the job done either.
Originally posted by Captain REX
Palpatine displaced Plagueis with his murder. Vader: The Ultimate Guide and The New Essential Chronology provide 43 BBY as the year of Plagueis' death. Anakin was born the following year.
Still does not mean anything. He was born the following year. Does not tell how long ago it was into the next year. As we know it usualy take 9 months to give birth.
Also if Plagueis did create Anakin. Then I can only think of one way for him to do so. He screwed Anakin's mom and then used the force to make her forget it ever happened. 9 months later and out pops baby anakin. lol
On another Note. Palpatine often claimed to see the future. But in reality I think he could only see so far. Also remember the future is always in motion. He might have started to see things around the time of TPM but not much more before that and it is possible he saw an immage of Anakin but I doubt he knew his location. Obviously by the time of ANH he was seeing it less. He had no idea the death star would be destroyed. Or maybe be forsaw it and that is why a second one was almost ready so fast. lol.
In ESB he informs vader of Luke, but Vader already knows this. The opening words at the beginning prove this.
In ROTJ he knew the Rebals were landing but failed to know that Luke was also on board. He was surprised when Vader said he felt his presence. Then he did not forsee the destruction of the second death star with him onboard.
Seems to me, he can not see into the future very far. lol
Let's take a second on this,
Palpatine could see clearly into the future for the dark side was shrouding everything. Yoda says as much in AOTC. Therefore, the Jedi were being screwed by the dark side.
Come to the time of New Hope and Jedi, and Palpatine is then having the same problem, as the force is about to rectify itself, the time of the prophecy is drawing near. Possible that one cannot see one's own death
Originally posted by Tangible God
If we're all going by how sincere Palpatine was to Anakin, then he lied."Unfortunately, he taught his apprentice everything he knew, then his apprentice killed him in his sleep."
If Palpatine was Plagueis's apprentice the he should already know how to create life. But if him saying to Anakin:
"To cheat death is a power only one has achieved, but if we work together, I'm sure we can discover the secret."
If that's true, then he lied to Anakin before. Ruling out Palpatine's part in Anakin's creation. And if he was being as sincere as he's being made out to be, then it would rule him out as Plagueis's apprentice altogether.
But if he really is his apprentice, then he was simply using the creating life and stopping death line as a way to hook Anakin's interest in the Dark Side, which is what happened.
But I'm no scholar on CW and Plagueis paraphanalia, so if something in the books contradicts this, then woops.
Actually that COULD be untrue. Because if you think about it, Sidious by even by ROTS could be a clone already. We have no evidence of when his first body died. Also, he stated that Plagueis created life, but when he says "to cheat death is a power only one has achieved", he could be referring to himself, as he is possibly a clone.
Originally posted by Captain REXDarth Plagueis is my father. 😈 👿
We don't know if Plagueis actually did or not. The New Essential Chronology of Star Wars states that it is unknown if Plagueis performed it before Palpatine murdered him. But Palpatine murdered him because he saw Anakin as a future replacement.We'll have to wait for the Plagueis novel.
Originally posted by Archangelysses
We know that Sidious is a Master manipulator but could you actually show proof of lying.We have Sidious stating that Plagueis was able to influence the midi chlorians to create life. Would Sidious lie about this, Maybe, for what possible reason. Would have been more of a fashionable lie to talk about cheating death, not creating life.
Sidious's whole office was a declaration of Sith Power with staturary and tapestries and bas relief sculptures depicting the Jedi/Sith war involving one Mr. Darth Bane. Would Sidious overly state his Master's Ability, Maybe. Quite Possible that he is telling the truth though. THis is the Sith who brought about the Endgame, who took control of the galaxy and got revenge, So his Master would have to be something special to have trained up Sidious.
If not Plagueis that created Anakin, it could only then be Sidious that performed the feat.
THat many Midi CHlorians in one person, could not have been random chance.
proof of lying, eh. at the end of ROTS, darth vader is "born" (put in the suit) and palp' says that he killed her with force choke, when we all know he didn't.
he talked about cheating death because he knew that anakin wanted to save someone, padme. so he would have talked about cheating death to get his interest and manipulate him more.
his master wouldn't have to be smart, just teach his apprentice well. palp' would have been able to learn fighting styles after he killed his master. it was palp' who thought of the plan to own the galaxy and jedi, and succeded.
no, there isn't any evidence to suggest that he could create life, just cheats death and stop people dying. even if he could, why would the sith make thier undoing. even if they did create anakin, ani' trusted qui-gon more than palp' and thier was no way of seeing if and when QGJ would die, so if he wasn't killed then he proberly wouldn't have joined the sith and destroyed them.
i know thier wasn't a random chance of it happening because it was an ancient prophecy.