Originally posted by blackpearl44
Yea, I had a feeling he knew she was going to do it too, he seemed like he had decided what he was going to do when he got himself out of the handcuffs...
Uh huh. I even have a feeling that he might have stayed anyway.
I REALLY cant wait to see how these two interact when they first see eachother again in the next movie. It will prove one of the different theories right lol. He will either be pissed off at her, or he will be all smitten with her.
I personally hope and belive that he is still going to want her. I still feel that last scene with them strengthened their bond rather than weakened it.
Originally posted by LovelyOne
The most important thing there is not the actual betrayal its the moments after the betrayal. She goes in as if to kiss him again, If the kiss really meant nothing to her then why go in to kiss him again then pull away?
similarly with the compass pointing at the thing you want most ...
when liz holds it on the island the camera shows it pointing at jack, and everyone thinks "omg she loves jack" but if you watch carefully it's ALSO pointing where they dig up the chest from ... so it could be either.
similarly, when jack then stoops over only moments later to look at the compass and says "yes it does, you're sitting on it" the compass could be pointing at liz too.
i think the point is for the audience to never know, and for you to take it your own way - does jack actually love liz, or is he just being his piratey self? if he does then surely it was just luck that made them find the chest ... which i suppose is part of the charm of CJS.
Originally posted by LovelyOne
Uh huh. I even have a feeling that he might have stayed anyway.I REALLY cant wait to see how these two interact when they first see eachother again in the next movie. It will prove one of the different theories right lol. He will either be pissed off at her, or he will be all smitten with her.
I personally hope and belive that he is still going to want her.
My guess is all smitten lol.....
Yes, the compass thing could be either the person, or the chest.....
Originally posted by JohnnyBloom
similarly with the compass pointing at the thing you want most ...when liz holds it on the island the camera shows it pointing at jack, and everyone thinks "omg she loves jack" but if you watch carefully it's ALSO pointing where they dig up the chest from ... so it could be either.
similarly, when jack then stoops over only moments later to look at the compass and says "yes it does, you're sitting on it" the compass could be pointing at liz too.
i think the point is for the audience to never know, and for you to take it your own way - does jack actually love liz, or is he just being his piratey self? if he does then surely it was just luck that made them find the chest ... which i suppose is part of the charm of CJS.
Yeh I totally agree with you. It is me just making up my own assumptions. I'm not saying its one way or the other..Im just looking for things that can help back up my theory 🙂
just a few other things though.
It points at him 3 times not twice. The first time she picked it up it seemed to point directly at him. He stood infront of it and ducked allowing it time to settle then he stood up and thought it was saying go that way.. it may have been pointing at him and even if he did hide below it, that doesnt mean its not pointing at him..
Disney may just be trying to make it look less obvious by doing subtle things like that.
One other strange thing is that Jack thinks the compass is broken (strangley enough when Liz's character is in persuit of him) every time he holds it points differently...this could be Liz location changing as she is coming closer to finding him. He gives it to liz to use instead. Why would the compass suddenly quit on him? The only time we see him touch it when liz is in close contact is on the beach..strangley enough it points at her...he thinks its the chest but if it "wasnt working" for him before then why did it suddenly work right there for him? I think it was a mere coincidence that the chest was right there.
The last time Liz held it it pointed and stuck on SW towards Jack. Surley if she was standing on the chest and thats what she really wanted the compas point would not settle on a direct location.
Also to note. Liz put it on the floor, then it started to move again. Jack came and tapped it then the point moved and faced liz....its all very...mysterious lol
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Its strange because when I look at that moment when its rested on the floor its seems as if the compass is trying to say to jack.."you and Liz" because it rests on him for a second then points back at liz. . It may be that in this movie hints like this are supposed to be going over the characters heads so they have to make the audience realize it by adding in "ifs" and buts" when it comes to the compass thing.
Yeh but why would Disney add all this stuff in just so it could be a coincidence. If by the third film we see that all those Jack/Liz clues had no overall meaning people will be asking: "well why did they add all that crap in the second one for no reason?" It would confuse alot of people.Its like the fact they put in two similar lockets one belonging to Tia and one to Davy Jones and then say..."oh that has no meaning"...if that has no meaning then why add that clue into the film at all?
Everything you see in a film has to have a significance to the story/plot. For some reason I doubt they would add so many hints and clues that have no overall significance to the main story.
EDIT - when i think about it. If all of these compass hints were just coincidences then that means they would have to explain that in the third movie..and there are way too many to do that.
Originally posted by blackpearl44
Yea, that's like if they said the "you want to know what it tastes like" thing had no meaning.......your right, that would be rediculus...
yeh exactly.
Its like saying Bootstrap bill is in this one but not in the next. We just thought we would add him in for no reason to confuse you.
To add on to the whole Jack compass pointing to liz thing. It would make sense that when he looked at it again on the boat to decide if he should go back to the pearl or not it might have been pointing at her again. He probably would have gone back anyway even with out looking at the compass. we all know he is a good man at heart and he would have saved them anyway even if the compass pointed away from the ship.
If thats true then it would sort of add significance to the fact that Liz is the first person he sees as he comes back. That scene revolved around those two again. Him protecting her. She was clinging to Jack's leg as if he was her hero. Will was busy hanging upsidown somewhere..he was not meant to interrupt that scene and the connection between those two...SURLEY if disney wanted Will and Liz relationship to be strengthened in the slightest they could have made it so Will saved her.
I didnt see Will save her ONCE in this film. He always seemed to be distracted from her. She either did it herself or Jack did it. this just butresses the fact that she is finding what she needs/wants in Jack instead of Will. Will is not there for her when she needs it.
gosh my internet keeps dying when i have written like a 3 page response. GAH.
that part where she is clinging to his leg is hott. a moment before, it almost looks like she is going to shoot the keg with Will still on it...
good thoughts everyone. brilliant. seriously.
so im trying to remember all the stuff i was just thinking about.
i hope jack will still be smitten with liz, but jack is NOT a predictable character. i mean, in the past he held a massive grudge against barbossa and hunted him and down and killed him for a betrayal. but this one is different. still, i think there may be some tension and a definate lack of trust between them for a while.
liz keeps saying how she trusts jack, but she OBVIOUSLY DOESNT, or she would have let him make his own mind up about staying with the ship. she doesnt trust him, thats why she chained him. IMO he would have stayed anyways. Liz is really doubting herself and everyone else- she is all over the map (no pun intended) in this film.
but its like you guys said, they put in wayyy too many hints to explain them all in the 3rd one. IMO, it would be easy to explain/do away with the last remnants of the Liz/Will thing.
kinda off topic, but will Will really team up with Barbossa, the guy who doomed his dad to begin with?
aww that sucks that happened to ya katelovespirate 🙁
I agree with everything you say apart from the "she chained him up because she didnt trust him" I think that she believes he is a good man just like jack knows she wants to be a pirate. (curiosity scene showed us this) She may actually have known he was going to stay, if not stay then she knew he was going to die protecting them he already proved that by coming back.
I think She chained him up because she gave into all the urges jack said she had. (he had already given into the urges she said he had by coming back and doing the right thing) She wanted to know what it feels like to act on selfish impulse like a pirate and do the wrong thing. ..she clearly is embracing the pirate lifestyle and she gets a rush from it, you can see it in her face when Jack calls her a pirate, she loved it..I think she says that "I'm not sorry" line to sort of make herself seem more pirate-like so jack would call her one to give her a bit of validation actually because she likes that thought.
I believe she got a big rush from doing that to Jack. I think he actualy became even more attracted to her when she did it too. You can see him smiling as if to say "wow you just became my type!" I in no way think he was hurt by what she did..he was just surprised that he was right, I think he liked it..It means she is becoming more....like him in a way. so he has more of a chance with her.
And yeh i wonder what Will will make of Barbossa...
smile again, mr sparrow! oh gee.
so now that jack has become a good man and liz has become a pirate, they both have to change some more... hehehe.... i love character development. its true- liz's character cant develope with will or her dad in the way. they represent the old liz. the new one needs jack to develope.
so was the chain-up just liz trying to retain some dignity or what? why didnt she just make love to him right on the ship? hehehe just kiddin.
Yeh blackpearl44^^
afterall Jack is not the type of person to fall in love with a woman YET anyway..He may change a bit later because of this betrayal.
I think that if that kiss had just stayed a kiss with no chain up/betrayal then it would have been pretty meaningless to him in the future..but the fact she DID do that to him gave him alot of satisfaction. Now he might see her in a new light. Not just some woman....but HIS KIND of woman. I bet none of the other women he has been involved with have ever done that to him..HE has always gotten the better of them it seems (hint the slaps)..now Liz has flipped it around on him, she may be the only one who has ever managed to trick him and he likes it. It makes Liz different to the other women he has had. Ibet he respects her for it.
I just can't wait to get some more info on the 3rd movie, and some info on maybe a 4th movie....we should be seeing more info within the next month or so...
and I don't think liz wanted dignity....she didn't really lose her dignity, Jack was not really disrespecting her. and that is true with will and his dad, will can't develope with his father distracting him......and Jacks dad is just cool.....
^^And I do agree with that.