My argument against

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Thank you.
My metaphor, like all metaphors, has its limits. I was only talking about the “You need to be saved” crowd. I believe that God has taken care of us; that is why we are alive.

OK

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
But you can only understand your relationship with God, you cannot understand mine.

Agreed, this is the reason for the statements in the Bible that warn people against judging others, at least that is my opinion as to the reason.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
And I believe that when Jesus said that only through me can you enter the kingdom; that is taken too literally.

I believe that man commits offenses against God's will. For balance to be maintained these offenses must be dealt with. Since we committed the offense we are unable to correct the balance. As Christians we believe Jesus to have been perfect and to be perfect. As such he is capable of correcting the balance that we are unable to correct. He is unable to correct the balance if we do not accept the correction, as such we must be placed in such a state as the balance is maintained. This state is not a desirable state from a Christian perspective.

I think that in many ways this agrees with your statement that it is taken too literally.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
I do not believe that God is separate from us or we from God.

I understand this, it is one of the differences in our beliefs. I believe we discussed this once. Although, in ways I agree with your belief. It would take too long to think through and articulate a decent explanation for this view though and I would probably not word it in an adequate manner so as to fully convey my meaning.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Often times, in the art world, the sum of the parts being greater then the hole are a reflection of genius. I would say that a flower in hole is greater then the sum of the parts, and a flower, IMO, reflects God.

Agreed. I claim that the beauty of what we know to exist, imo it is a beautiful creation, is the reflection of God's genius.

^ Well, I really don't have a problem with you. I think you would make the right choice if you were confronted with a tough situation. I only have a problem with people who go around, against the commandment of Jesus, and Judge and condemn other people.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
^ Well, I really don't have a problem with you. I think you would make the right choice if you were confronted with a tough situation. I only have a problem with people who go around, against the commandment of Jesus, and Judge and condemn other people.

Thank you.

As far as judgement of others goes...

I don't feel that I can judge others. I believe that the things my Church teaches are true, but that does not mean that others that don't believe as I do won't get to a better place than me. I personally think that is part of the interpretation of the parable on the prodigal son. The son goes out and does various things the father disapproves of, the other son does everything correctly, when the prodigal returns he's given as much love, if not more love, from the father as the first son receives. To me, one of the meanings behind this parable, is that we don't know where our place will be, no matter how we think we are doing. I don't know the measure that is used when we stand before God, I only know that it will be just.

[QUOTE=6925365]Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Life is important, mythology is not. It is better to live life to its fullest then to cower to a possible future.

Ok, but is it worth it, to live 80 years of worry-free enjoyment and then spend the rest of eternity in a crappy place. I am most certain I can live life to the fullest and still worship a god, unless by that u mean look at porno, pre-marital sex, rob people, or kill people. Im not sure if you ever had a religion, but its not like restrictions as such are hard to maintain. Plus, with that mindset theres no hope. At least you can look forward to some kind of afterlife with religion, whether or not it exists. Hope is what drives people to continue on, despite the circumstances.

Originally posted by gordomuchacho
[QUOTE=6925365]Originally posted by Shakyamunison
[B]Life is important, mythology is not. It is better to live life to its fullest then to cower to a possible future.

Ok, but is it worth it, to live 80 years of worry-free enjoyment and then spend the rest of eternity in a crappy place. I am most certain I can live life to the fullest and still worship a god, unless by that u mean look at porno, pre-marital sex, rob people, or kill people. Im not sure if you ever had a religion, but its not like restrictions as such are hard to maintain. Plus, with that mindset theres no hope. At least you can look forward to some kind of afterlife with religion, whether or not it exists. Hope is what drives people to continue on, despite the circumstances. [/B]

Your interpretation of living life to the fullest is very demented. 😱 To me, living my life to the fullest is, helping other people, being respectful to yourself and others. Honoring and respecting life and the beauty of nature. So, is watching porn and having sex the most important things in your life?

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Your interpretation of living life to the fullest is very demented. 😱 To me, living my life to the fullest is, helping other people, being respectful to yourself and others. Honoring and respecting life and the beauty of nature. So, is watching porn and having sex the most important things in your life?

I didn't say that was my idea, you obviosuly didnt read what I had to say entirely because my point was that you can live life to the fullest and still worship a god.

Originally posted by gordomuchacho
I didn't say that was my idea, you obviosuly didnt read what I had to say entirely because my point was that you can live life to the fullest and still worship a god.

You can also live life to the fullet and not worship. That was my point. BTW I am a Nichiren Buddhist.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
You can also live life to the fullet and not worship. That was my point. BTW I am a Nichiren Buddhist.

ok but u still have a religion and whether or not u worship u still have beliefs such as a achieving enlightenment, and before u jump down my throat i will openly admit i dont no very much about buddhism, but it is a religion with its own beliefs and you can still live life to the fullest. As far as mythology is concerned, the idea of a buddha and his afterlife of could also be considered mythology

Originally posted by gordomuchacho
ok but u still have a religion and whether or not u worship u still have beliefs such as a achieving enlightenment, and before u jump down my throat i will openly admit i dont no very much about buddhism, but it is a religion with its own beliefs and you can still live life to the fullest. As far as mythology is concerned, the idea of a buddha and his afterlife of could also be considered mythology

Please don't take everything so personally. In no way would I jump down your throat. 😆 Mythology is not a bad thing; it is the way we convey information that would be lost over time. You really should learn more about my religion.

http://www.sgi.org/english/index.htm

Actually I just looked up the Nicherien buddhism, i think the moral teachings and ideas of strengthening ur mind to resist tempation are fantastic ideas, but for me it couldn't be my religion, maybe just somethign to do in my free time

Originally posted by gordomuchacho
Actually I just looked up the Nicherien buddhism, i think the moral teachings and ideas of strengthening ur mind to resist tempation are fantastic ideas, but for me it couldn't be my religion, maybe just somethign to do in my free time

You do no have to see it as a religion like I do, it can just be a philosophy that works. 😄

maybe someday i will, but for right now i gotta sort out my own beliefs and do more research

Originally posted by Great Vengeance
Alright then.

Firstly, lets establish that belief is a scientifically useless and often harmful device that humans use to attempt to simplify and make sense of things they cannot understand the proper way(through the scientific method). In short, belief has never given us truth, and is responsible for a good deal of the worlds problems(from the crusades and witchhunts of the past, all the way to the current issues in the middle east).

There goes the saying, 'you must have faith'.

That leaves Christians and other religious sects to prove their god the old-fashioned way. With reason. However... to prove a deity like the christian god, who has no concrete form and is largely undefined aside from being 'omnipotent', 'all-knowing', and 'all-good' is scientically impossible.

That leaves some of the smarter Christians, who realize the fatal flaw of their beliefs, but are reluctant to let go of their bible, to attempt to prove why the absence of god would result in scientifically impossible results. And [B]nearly all of these arguments attack one of the few things science hasnt really explained: the creation of the universe.

One of the few arguments Christians have, that has some weight to it, is that the universe creating itself out of pure chance is mathematically unlikely.

There is also the problem of where matter itself came from... one of our scientific laws is that matter cannot be created nor destroyed.

Well thats a bit of clever thinking from the Christians huh? Or is it?

Their argument essentially breaks down to: "There are things I cannot explain, therefor creationism is true."
-Quoted from Backfire. [/B]

💃

Originally posted by Great Vengeance
Cont.

As Backfire elegantly pointed out, this kind of thinking is fallacious. Any physicist worth his salt could come up with an elaborate scenario to how the universe was created(multiverse theories come to mind)...however, for the theory to have any substance it requires proof.

And you do realise most of the mainstream theories regarding where the universe came from (such as quantum theories) and things like evolution pretty much have a ton more proof supporting them then God does, right?

Christianity is just one of a great number of explanations to why the universe exists, and part of perhaps an infinite number of not yet thought of explanations.

Yet it is one that has virtually no proof, and in fact tries to prove itself by finding holes in other, more evidenced theories. It doesn't seem to matter that the Big Bang theory has a mass of evidence supporting it from the moment of the explosion on, Christians will grasp the "but it doesn't say what happened just before, or where that matter came from, so Christianity is more correct because God could have created matter" as proof kind of thing.

So if your a follower of truth like I am: Agnosticism is the correct path for now.

I can live with that, it is fine to be able to say "yes, we don't know for sure" - but then again I also think Atheism is also equally valid, from a scientific, rational point of view.

And if Atheism is wrong you could end up in hell for eternal punishment. But hey, being skeptical is worth it cause look I can do what I want for 100 years and when suffer for 1000000000000000000000000000000000000000 years. Obviously Atheism is rational if you like pain. Dominatrix. Whip sound, oh yah.

You have issues. Cower all you want. I will not live my life in fear of what is right. You can never take that away from anyone.

Originally posted by Nellinator
And if Atheism is wrong you could end up in hell for eternal punishment. But hey, being skeptical is worth it cause look I can do what I want for 100 years and when suffer for 1000000000000000000000000000000000000000 years. Obviously Atheism is rational if you like pain. Dominatrix. Whip sound, oh yah.

Better not to take the chance, however, I do not live in fear of hell rather in anticipation and seeking of heavenly rewards. Cowering? Haha. I'm very muc active and out in the open. When you are in Jesus you have to fear because I am justified by my faith.

And since there is no absolute answer, and atheism is the only logical choice thereafter, it not hard to come to a conclusion. Its understanding that conclusion that is the difficult part.

I hope that your god doesn' t mind that you believe in it merely in order to gain entrance to heaven.
I wouldn' t consider worshipping a god where a person' s eternal fate is not being decided upon based on their actions, but merely on their decision to believe.