Originally posted by Darth Sexy
What do you mean no?
What do I mean? Isn't it simple enough for you to understand "NO".
Explain to me how Anakin would defeat Revan in a versus match? Force abilities clearly go to Revan as Anakin never reached potentials.
What Force abilities does Revan have as a definite?
Revan was also a lightsaber prodigy in a more martial time.
And Anakin somehow isn't a lightsaber prodigy? Beating someone with 70+ years of experience under their belt, someone who uses the lightsaber to lightsaber combat form, and has Darkside abilities as well when you've been training for what? 14 years? Damn, tell me that isn't a Lightsaber prodigy.
And more martial? In case you didn't know, Anakin was around during the Clone Wars.
You want to argue that Anakin>Revan because he beat Dooku?
Did I ever say that? Actually, did I ever voice my opinion that Anakin firmly is > Revan just because of him killing Dooku? No? Then don't put words in my mouth - thanks a bunch, hun.
I can counter your argument with Anakin getting pwned by Obiwan.
"Getting pwned"? Do you need to rent ROTS from Blockbuster again or something?
Is that why Anakin gets the following attacks on the Soresu master:
1.) Kicks him square in the chest.
2.) Dragon Sleeper.
3.) Dropkick.
4.) Another kick.
5.) Knocks Kenobi around.
6.) Yet another kick dead in the face.
Actually, Anakin > Kenobi in lightsaber abilities. As much is obvious. Kenobi only did one thing: prolong the fight until the point that he got the terrain advantage (similar to the Sidious/Yoda fight). If it was even ground, Anakin would've killed Obi-Wan.
And again, play KOTOR or at least read the storyline.
Played KOTOR. Played KOTOR 2. Own KOTOR. Own KOTOR 2. Read the storylines.
Seems I've done all that and still I disagree with you.
Revan was the most powerful of his time, where there were more powerful Jedi/Sith.
Like who? Darth Bandon?
Anakin was what, behind Yoda, Mace, Sidious, Dooku, etc? Yea, Anakin iz theee ch0zen 0ne.
Hm, considering Anakin is one of the only three said to be able to compete with Sidious, I don't think he's behind that far. And, also considering he beat Dooku fair and square - you can take him off the list.
Being the "Chosen One" has nothing to do with this. Yeah, Revan is "THE AWESOME VIDEO GAME CHARACTER!". I mean half his feats you could sneak through, not use Force powers, or a lightsaber for that matter. He gets praised by Republic soldiers - wow Revan! He gets praised by Traya - wow Revan! You have a blind, biased hag that loves you. Congratulations.
Because he was told to go all out on Anakin? Not hold back? No indication otherwise (other than Dooku fanboys that can't accept Anakin > Dooku)? Because in The Making of ROTS "if Anakin is good enough, Anakin can kill Dooku"?
I suppose you didn't read the part of your quote where it states Dooku was mislead during the entire battle? 🙄 He believed either way, he would be safe from death. Anakin was fighting with all his strength, while Dooku was relaxed. Which would fight better, someone who believed that the only way to survive would be to defeat his opponent, or someone who believes “either way I’ll live” ?
What happened btw? Anakin did what? He killed Dooku?
Ignore the fact that Dooku tied Mace Windu in saber combat. Also he WTFpwned Kenobi, who was later giving Anakin one HELL of a time. Something seems illogical about the entire situation, no?
Yes, he killed Dooku fair and square. Disprove the quotes I gave you, or shut up.
You realize that quote is adding point to the fact Anakin > Dooku fairly? Isn't that what you are arguing against?
Figures, you are forgetting the fact that even in your quotes Palpatine mentioned "test." . Don’t be daft, he was not fighting to his maximum capability, and if you think otherwise then it clearly reflects your prejudices towards the situation. I suppose tieing the greatest duelist of the order, and also defeating the very Jedi that was giving Anakin such a hard time clearly proves Dooku’s inferiority? By your definition of who beats who, Mace Windu is gar greater than Sidious, and consequently Yoda as well 🙄
"Amplify the powers of any DJ..." - blah blah. How much does it amplify their powers by?
Enough to be described as “unstoppable” in the context of a far more militant Jedi order.
I don't have time for this anymore. I will come back later, as unfortunately I have an exam to attend to.
Originally posted by Motoko Sama
What do I mean? Isn't it simple enough for you to understand "NO".What Force abilities does Revan have as a definite?
And Anakin somehow isn't a lightsaber prodigy? Beating someone with 70+ years of experience under their belt, someone who uses the lightsaber to lightsaber combat form, and has Darkside abilities as well when you've been training for what? 14 years? Damn, tell me that isn't a Lightsaber prodigy.
And more martial? In case you didn't know, Anakin was around during the Clone Wars.
Did I ever say that? Actually, did I ever voice my opinion that Anakin firmly is > Revan just because of him killing Dooku? No? Then don't put words in my mouth - thanks a bunch, hun.
"Getting pwned"? Do you need to rent ROTS from Blockbuster again or something?
Is that why Anakin gets the following attacks on the Soresu master:
1.) Kicks him square in the chest.
2.) Dragon Sleeper.
3.) Dropkick.
4.) Another kick.
5.) Knocks Kenobi around.
6.) Yet another kick dead in the face.Actually, Anakin > Kenobi in lightsaber abilities. As much is obvious. Kenobi only did one thing: prolong the fight until the point that he got the terrain advantage (similar to the Sidious/Yoda fight). If it was even ground, Anakin would've killed Obi-Wan.
Played KOTOR. Played KOTOR 2. Own KOTOR. Own KOTOR 2. Read the storylines.
Seems I've done all that and still I disagree with you.
Like who? Darth Bandon?
Hm, considering Anakin is one of the only three said to be able to compete with Sidious, I don't think he's behind that far. And, also considering he beat Dooku fair and square - you can take him off the list.
Being the "Chosen One" has nothing to do with this. Yeah, Revan is "THE AWESOME VIDEO GAME CHARACTER!". I mean half his feats you could sneak through, not use Force powers, or a lightsaber for that matter. He gets praised by Republic soldiers - wow Revan! He gets praised by Traya - wow Revan! You have a blind, biased hag that loves you. Congratulations.
Apparently you have trouble understanding the concept of "Getting pwned". That would entail getting your legs cut off, meaning you LOST. Oh let me guess, "but Anakin was clouded with the dark side otherwise he would have won if he wasn't so arrogant". Anakin got beat, pwned, whatever..I suggest you watch the movies, and quit downplaying Revan. I'm not calling him a God but he sure as hell above Anakin. And again you still fail to remember how Malak was defeated while being powered by the star forge+8 Jedi. Unless of course you think Anakin beating Dooku is more impressive, in which cause you're assuming Dooku>Malak... Anakin hasn't shown to be on par with Revan regardless of your dislike for the character or the game.
Originally posted by Darth Sexy
I believe Dooku beat Mace when they were both younger and in training, but it was widely believed that Mace=Dooku in saber combat.
It is confirmed by the official Star Wars databank that Dooku managed to defeat Mace when Dooku was still in the Order.
But, ever since, they've been exact equals. They had a fight on Boz Pity, which ended in a stalemate. Dooku pulled a Sidious, was afraid that he might get beaten, so he had Grievous's Magnaguards blindside Mace.
Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Anakin is certainly not on par with Mace, unless of course you are to suggest Anakin>Sidious..
Um . . .
Anakin is on par with Mace. Anakin legitimately defeated Dooku in combat (as Mokoto Sama and I have proven on various threads), and Dooku is equal to Mace.
And, yes, I'd argue that Anakin is on par with Yoda and Sidious, Mace and Dooku in terms of lightsaber ability.
But Yoda and Sidious are a lot better in the Force.
Originally posted by Darth Sexy
It sounds like an A>B>C argument Escape. With that I could say Anakin could defeat Sidious because Mace defeated Sidious, or Anakin would stalemate Yoda because Sidious did. I don't think it's logical at all to put Anakin in the same category as Yoda or Sidious.
No, I never said that he could beat Mace. I said that he is on par with Mace. There's a difference.
Also, I won't get into the Mace vs. Sidious debate - but again, I have to point out, it was simply a lightsaber duel. Sidious > Mace in the Force.
And, once again, I clarified.
Anakin is on par with Yoda, Sidious, Mace, and Dooku in lightsaber ability.
But see this is where I disagree. Maybe on par with Dooku and Mace, but Sidious was above Dooku. I think.. And Yoda was the best of the best. I did remember reading it in one of the source books or roleplaying things that Anakin Mace and Dooku were in the same league, while Yoda and Sidious were above them. This goes for lightsaber combat and force abilities.
Originally posted by zephiel7
I suppose you didn't read the part of your quote where it states Dooku was mislead during the entire battle? 🙄 He believed either way, he would be safe from death.
You're right -- however...
Anakin was fighting with all his strength, while Dooku was relaxed.
...you misinterpretated the quote, he was not told to "relax" - did you see Dooku in a recliner anywhere in the picture? I sure as hell didn't. The only one "relaxing" was Palpatine.
He was testing his strength, and the point was that if Anakin beat Dooku while Dooku, himself, was giving it his all then Anakin would be worthy as an apprentice. Did you miss the:
"So we're going to setup a situation where you fight him. If he gets the best of you, then I'll stop the fight and he'll have passed the test. If you get the best of him, then we'll let him go, and we'll let him stew for a few more years until he's ready.' But behind it, obviously, is Palpatine's real intention: If Anakin is good enough, Anakin can kill Dooku and become Palpatine's new apprentice. But he didn't tell Dooku that."
Keywords in bold for easier reading, amigo.
Now class, let's move forward with that. "If Anakin is good enough" - meaning if Anakin is capable of defeating Dooku while giving it his all, "Anakin can kill Dooku" which he did. The thing is - Dooku thought he'd be safe from death, however, that doesn't mean Dooku wasn't going all out - as he was told to anyways, and the fact it wouldn't make sense for Anakin to be defeating Dooku who isn't fighting his best.
And another point, why would Palpatine want a weaker Sith apprentice when the attack on the Jedi was a mere few days away? Makes no sense. Anakin > Dooku fair and square.
Which would fight better, someone who believed that the only way to survive would be to defeat his opponent, or someone who believes “either way I’ll live” ?
Who would fight better? They'd fight equally. Considering Dooku is loyal a la Darth Maul, and will listen to his master. He was told to fight Anakin, he did so. And doesn't Dooku realize he's in trouble near the end anyways? Seems your points are pretty much done with.
Also, who would you rather have - someone who is weaker, or someone who is stronger when you're about to wage war with the Jedi? Or here's another brainteaser, why would you want to have a new apprentice that isn't even good enough to defeat your current apprentice?
Ignore the fact that Dooku tied Mace Windu in saber combat.
Alright, I'll ignore it.
Also he WTFpwned Kenobi, who was later giving Anakin one HELL of a time.
Want to watch ROTS again?
Something seems illogical about the entire situation, no?
Something seems illogical if Sidious > Yoda, but Mace > Sidious, eh? Seems Star Wars is filled with illogical situations. Or rather fanboys - such as yourself - have a hard time accepting the fact Dooku lost fair and square.
Anyways, let's take a look at the situations:
Dooku vs. Anakin
1.) Anakin was focused.
2.) Anakin wasn't blinded by the Darkside.
3.) Anakin properly used his anger.
4.) Dooku isn't a defensive master.
5.) Wasn't arrogant with his actions.
And, let's now go to:
Obi-Wan vs. Anakin
1.) Anakin was corrupted.
2.) Facing THE Soresu Master.
3.) Obi-Wan was running the entire time (lava skating, moving away from Anakin)
4.) Anakin was arrogant.
Pretty different situations if you ask me. And on top of all that, Anakin was beating the piss out of Obi-Wan up until Obi-Wan securely got the high ground. That situation looks familiar...
Yoda vs. Sidious! Sidious had the high ground and thus the advantage needed to beat Yoda.
Figures, you are forgetting the fact that even in your quotes Palpatine mentioned "test."
What? Was I arguing it wasn't a test? There you go again, Sexxxy - putting words in my mou-- actually, putting words on my screen that I wasn't arguing.
. Don’t be daft, he was not fighting to his maximum capability, and if you think otherwise then it clearly reflects your prejudices towards the situation.
Um, they were testing Anakin to see if he was good enough to beat Dooku! That was the entire point of the "test" - to see if Anakin could beat Dooku fighting his best.
And please, prejudice? I've laid down a logical argument with statements, facts, and logical deductions. What have you shown me? "ANAKIN WAS BEING TESTED! DOOKU WASN'T FIGHTING BEST!"...hm, did you see a No. 2 pencil in Anakin's hand? I sure as hell didn't. Dooku was going all out, using all his strength and seeing if Anakin could best him. That's the ENTIRE POINT.
I suppose tieing the greatest duelist of the order, and also defeating the very Jedi that was giving Anakin such a hard time clearly proves Dooku’s inferiority? By your definition of who beats who, Mace Windu is gar greater than Sidious, and consequently Yoda as well 🙄
Sadly, this argument has been proven by me in the past - check "ROTS Tyrannus vs. ROTS Anakin and ROTJ Luke". Good topic, you could learn a thing or two from it.
And "gar greater"? What lingo is this?
Seriously though, you're actually using like some odd standard - saying that because Dooku beat Obi-Wan who beat Anakin, that means Anakin is inferior to Dooku. Well, I can say that you - not me - are saying that Mace is greater than Yoda because he beat Sidious.
Turned it on you.
And that is not at all what I'm saying, my definition of who beats who goes by actual facts and is backed by logical deductions. Anakin is > Dooku, and Anakin is also > Obi-Wan, it just so happens that a few things got in the way during the Obi-Wan/Anakin bout (arrogance, terrain, etc.).
Enough to be described as “unstoppable” in the context of a far more militant Jedi order.
Give me the "unstoppable" quote, and who said it. Then I can tell you exactly what I think.