Starcraft vs. Halo

Started by Burning thought9 pages

Originally posted by OMG-Toothpaste
You know what.... (And I know I said I was leaving...)
After carefully reading this whole debate, and doing a bit of research,
I would have to agree with DarkC that the flood might actually win against the Zerg...
Sorry BT but a lot of the stuff you said and stated isn't true or fact.
Like DarkC said you have been making some stuff up to make the Zerg look more powerful.
And if you think the Zerg could beat the Flood in a fight that's your opinion and you entitled to it.
But all of DarkC's posts state facts, truths, and even corrections on your bashing BT, I'm sorry

but I think the Flood win...

And what is this power you speak of Blaxcian?

can you post some links please to the research and stuff that may make me change my mind on the flood winning, in my opinion i see the flood as ridiculous things, ime not a fanboy...i like starcraft and halo...i just "hate" the flood..although i still dont see them winning, but id like to see proof of their power through direct links, id like to see them pilotting covenant and human ships and am interested in seeing where it says their numbers as Darkc says they are

Originally posted by Burning thought
can you post some links please to the research and stuff that may make me change my mind on the flood winning, in my opinion i see the flood as ridiculous things, ime not a fanboy...i like starcraft and halo...i just "hate" the flood..although i still dont see them winning, but id like to see proof of their power through direct links, id like to see them pilotting covenant and human ships and am interested in seeing where it says their numbers as Darkc says they are

Flood Brain Form
Flood Infection Form
Flood Juggernaught
Terran Units
Zerg Units

A lot of the sources that I have already stated by me to be taken from the books themselves.

Starcraft: Queen of Blades
Starcraft Ghost: Nova
Starcraft: Shadow of the Xel’Naga
Starcraft: Liberty’s Crusade

And I’m assuming you already own Speed of Darkness.

Halo: The Fall of Reach
Halo: The Flood
Halo: First Strike
Halo: Ghosts of Onyx

Originally posted by BlaxicanHydra
Guilty as in Guilty Gear. Anyway our proposition was that if you join su you could achieve a power greater then any admin.

Any admin here, you mean? What?

Explain more, I still don't get it.

hmm yes it seems the only book i dont have of starcraft is queen of blades, wish there were better resources for starcraft law and statistics, i suppose theres often more detailed information given about first person shooters considering Starcraft wiki is lame on information

an interesting note is that all one has to do to save itself from infection is jump and move a lot to dislodge it, considering the pattens of zerglings i dont see those being infected considering their nature

also do are grenades effective against brutes in the halo universe, ive never faced them myself

another thing is that can i have an link on the exact numbers on the flood, id like to see how many there are compared to the zerg..weve agreed the zerg have strength and durability and you say the numbers of the flood are far greater than the zerg, so id be interested in seeing where it says their numbers

Originally posted by Burning thought
an interesting note is that all one has to do to save itself from infection is jump and move a lot to dislodge it, considering the pattens of zerglings i dont see those being infected considering their nature

I can, the Zerglings will be facing the Flood in hordes but the Flood infection forms, to compensate for their fragility, come in clouds and swarms. The Zergling, if it jumps around violently (which I very much doubt, considering that it doesn’t stop or even slow down for depleted uranium bullets, and not being remotely intelligent, will not realize the inherent danger) will be able to dislodge one.

A Flood infection form can pierce armor, slice flesh open, and slide a tentacle down to a host’s central nervous system core extremely fast. In The Flood, the Infection form was able to do all that to Master Chief before he was able to react (Cortana saved his ass, by the way) and Chief is extremely fast. Also, the Infection forms don’t come one at a time, they come in swarms. If the open scale war here as we described allows for masses of troops on the battlefield at one time, a veritable blanket of infection forms is going to be charging the zerg lines accompanied by the rest of its kind.

The Zerg are probably going to be jumped by six or seven Infection forms per unit at one time; a passage in The Flood describes a sequence where Flood were hiding out in a cargo container; when a Jackal opened it, despite the dire warning of a Grunt, he was pretty much drowned in an avalanche of infection forms (what a moron). Once the nervous system is tapped, it’s pretty much over for the Zergling, the Infection forms paralyze it and start their various routine feeding.

Try shaking that little lot off like a drenched dog.

Originally posted by Burning thought
also do are grenades effective against brutes in the halo universe, ive never faced them myself

They’re far too tough for fragmentation grenades to really be much effective against them, nor is the splash radius of a plasma grenade that great against them either. Sticking plasma grenades to them or headshots with a Carbine or Battle Rifle are the only real good way to take them down, it’s some kind of sardonic on-running joke in Legendary difficulty that Honor Guard level Brutes are invincible to anything except a sticky grenade. It’s speculated that Flood Juggernaut forms are based off of what happens when a Brute gets taken over.
Originally posted by Burning thought
another thing is that can i have an link on the exact numbers on the flood, id like to see how many there are compared to the zerg..weve agreed the zerg have strength and durability and you say the numbers of the flood are far greater than the zerg, so id be interested in seeing where it says their numbers

There’s been no real estimate of actual Flood population, at least not to my knowledge, and I happen to know a lot. However, I base my assumptions off of the incredible growth rate of the Flood, their actual method of reproducing, and the speed of their reproducing as well. As long as they have prey, they will last and breed like bacteria. The only real way of eliminating the danger of the Flood is to starve them to death, after they break free they breed so fast to the point that containment is no longer a realistic possibility.

Think about it this way in terms of relativity.

The Forerunners either discovered or created the Flood millennia ago, and in their delving accidentally let the Flood get out of control. So out of control, in fact, that despite the Forerunner’s superiority in terms of technology they are badly overwhelmed. They have to resort to creating seven separate ring worlds to trap the Flood on and then in a desperate move to eliminate the Flood, kill themselves and the entire galaxy off just to deny the Flood of anything even remotely resembling food to them, at this time the Flood numbers are already considerable.

Fast forward time, the ‘infidel’ Covenant and Humans come in and start poking around, during the events of Halo: Combat Evolved the Flood are accidentally released and immediately start breeding like crazy to the point where both Humans and Covenant are forced separately to attempt various methods of containment. The explosion of the Pillar of Autumn wipes out Halo and a very large number of Flood, but as seen in the events of Halo 2, many Flood still survive and keep breeding. On Installation 05 (Delta Halo) the Flood also are somehow released and again start breeding like crazy on the Covenant forces that have been loitering around. After only a few days of fighting, the Prophets desert the rest of the Covenant, and civil war breaks out. Flood still are breeding like crazy and in the Ghosts of Onyx novel it was described that hundreds of Flood-controlled craft (“Phantoms, Spirits, even Banshees”) were attempting to escape (there’s bound to be a lot more on the installation for those who couldn’t find ships to steal), four larger Covenant ships were trying to burn them down but there were far too many trying to escape. These four ships get taken over and are fired upon immediately by their brother ships without hesitation (think about it, a single Flood controlled ship with Slipspace capability would be nothing short of catastrophic, considering that a single Carrier form can wipe Earth out).

The Zerg breed extremely fast too but their methods aren’t nearly as fast or as practical as being able to ‘ressurrect’ fallen people as to use them in combat once again or to use it as an incubator for more infection forms, turning it into a carrier form, spewing even more chittering obscenities out into the world. The Zerg have to use larvae and resources and gene pools, and also have to transport their forces to the battlefield after being built. Simply put, if the two separate races were to be put into a competition to see who could create and breed faster, the Flood runs away with the competition; at base numbers the Zerg originally probably outnumber the Flood, but it’s a fact that the Flood just breed too damn fast for containment or control.

well considering the flood needs food wheras the zerg are not offically stated to eat, they simply get produced and then dont eat at all as far as i can remember i havnt read anything saying they eat, they sort of use their drones to give nutrients to hive clusters which then create the larvae

so in truth theres no cold fact that the flood do out number the zerg, i mean i can see the speed at which they breed but it doesnt seem that much faster to the zerg, especially since the flood need hosts, wheras the zerg can constantly reproduce as long as theres nutrients, however theres nutrients across many worlds the zerg control so nutrients are unlikely to be a problem in this battle if this is a fully strength zerg army. So in truth we have no understanding of the size of the flood, the Zerg you estimated at about 50 million, wheras the flood could be anything below or beyond. In the games there are not millions of flood are there, when you fight them theres groups of combat forms, infections and maybe carriers on average but their not large groups, halo 1 at the end theres groups of like 8 infections a couple of carriers and prob like 5 combat forms. Problem with me i just ran through them trying to escape and ended up with aout 10 of such groups chasing me which made it more difficult yet i remember escaping luckily.

so far i see the zerg winning still, maybe only just but especially now theres no hard proof that the flood actually out number the zerg which are obviously tougher than the flood one on one, so this battle can go either way depending on numbers, i still see them using the Scourge and banelings once the overmind/kerrigen realises the flood increase their numbers on dead zerg forces they will use forces that simply have nothing left but acidic and burning remains if any at all to feed on like scourge and banelings, baneling explosions seem to be incredible considering 4/5 of them can shatter the heavily armored and shielded colossus, they have tougher armour than zerglings and so far dont seem to damage eachother in their explosions which i suppose make sense, i still say a combination of these and scourge would eventually destroy even a group of flood that are in greater number than the zerg themselves which has no proof behind it that flood have larger numbers.

Originally posted by Burning thought
can you post some links please to the research and stuff that may make me change my mind on the flood winning, in my opinion i see the flood as ridiculous things, ime not a fanboy...i like starcraft and halo...i just "hate" the flood..although i still dont see them winning, but id like to see proof of their power through direct links, id like to see them pilotting covenant and human ships and am interested in seeing where it says their numbers as Darkc says they are

My reasearch was playing both games, where I fought against both Zerg and Flood.
Wikipedia (may not be super accurate but a lot of it seemed right)
And I checked out the game websites (Bungie and Blizzard)
and I basically found out what I could about the races.

Originally posted by Burning thought
well considering the flood needs food wheras the zerg are not offically stated to eat they simply get produced and then dont eat at all as far as i can remember i havnt read anything saying they eat, they sort of use their drones to give nutrients to hive clusters which then create the larvae,

And does it make sense to you that a Zerg, being a basic primal biological organism, does not need to find some way of maintaining it’s strength? The problem with that is that it defies the laws of nature itself to even suggest that something does not require forms of nourishment in order to keep functioning. Everything comes with a price, Burning though, and that includes bodily functions. You cannot create something from nothing at all.

Have you never studied Newton’s basic laws? Energy cannot be created or destroyed, it’s only transferred. The Flood use the biomass inside their host bodies to maintain functions, injecting certain streams and agents into their host to make it more effective for whatever purpose suits it. The Zerg cannot simply keep function or using their forms of attack without needing to feed and replenish themselves at one point or another. Do you honestly think that their regeneration can be achieved with absolutely nothing at all?

For example, a Mutalisk cannot continuously produce acid attacks because it is going to run out of water at some point or other and it needs water to create acid and the mucous covering that protects their own bodies and internal organs from the acidic blood, and it isn’t as if a Hydralisk is born with an infinite amount of acid spines ready to shoot, it must replenish them.

Besides, Zerg have been known to eat. Read Liberty’s Crusade again, the segment in Anthem base where Mike first encounters the brain eating larvae and then after Swallow gets chewed in half, the rest of her body is missing, presumably dragged away and devoured (seriously, what use would Zerg have with a pair of dead human legs other than to eat?) then when the rest of her body is dropped down into the tunnel, something moved, confirming the presence of something malicious below, very predictably Zerg.

Even if they don’t feast on their actual enemies, the one confirmed and stated source of Zerg nourishment is none other than the Creep itself. It’s nutrient rich, produced by hatcheries and colonies and full of the necessary nourishment to keep the Zerg structures up and running. If anything, the Zerg probably eat that, but anything living needs some sort of sustenance at one point or another.

Originally posted by Burning thought
so in truth theres no cold fact that the flood do out number the zerg,

No, as I said the Zerg probably do outnumber the Flood in base terms, but the Flood breed exponentially. That’s not a term taken to be lightly, it’s a growth rate that feeds on itself as a factor and their growth rate accelerates constantly as long as there is a source of viable prey to be had. They sometimes don’t even need prey either, Infection forms can enter incapacitated and dismembered Combat Forms and turn them into Carrier forms, that spew out even more infection forms to battle.

Originally posted by Burning thought
i mean i can see the speed at which they breed but it doesnt seem that much faster to the zerg,

Can the Zerg, from a meager few hundred, breed to the point where it would take less than a week to overpower an entire installation and the considerable forces surrounding it, take over their weapons, take over their ships, and try to escape?

No, the Zerg are fast at reproducing, but they’re steady and under control. You’re letting your fanboyism overwhelm you again.

Originally posted by Burning thought
especially since the flood need hosts, wheras the zerg can constantly reproduce as long as theres nutrients, however theres nutrients across many worlds
the zerg control so nutrients are unlikely to be a problem in this battle if this is a fully strength zerg army.

And what do you expect the Zerg to do, transport their nutrients on another world to the one that the conflict itself is taking place? Do you expect them to ferry their troops over from another world onto the one with the conflict itself? That isn’t practical nor is it realistic in terms of war, Burning. It would be highly inconvenient, not to mention time consuming, to transport troops from and between worlds.

And if they tried, they would utterly fail, because of said capabilities of Covenant and UNSC space-faring ships earlier mentioned. Flood controlled ships would be able to effectively mount a near impenetrable barricade against transport, whether for resources or for troops. They can detect and gun down any approaching Zerg in space without the Zerg even being able to remotely get close enough to fire a shot, let alone letting Scourge collide for suicide bombs.

The only realistic and practical option left is to touch down and set base upon the world that is slated for conflict between the two races. And if they want to gather resources for a new hive cluster, then workers will have to touch down and ground troops will as well in order to protect said workers instead of moronic Scourge and Banelings exploding all over the place like firecrackers at Chinese New Year’s. Oh dear! There goes our Defiler Mound! Silly Baneling!

Originally posted by Burning thought
So in truth we have no understanding of the size of the flood

Don’t be so shortsighted, Burning, the rate at which both forces can grow in size is at least as important as the actual population itself, if not even more so. It works along the same theory as viruses, they can badly overwhelm the Human immune system even if extremely outnumbered initially. The Flood, because of this exponential nature of breeding and crossbreeding, have been referred to as “parasite” and “disease” by Covenant forces.

What use is a huge population if you know that your enemy will outnumber you eventually anyways?

Originally posted by Burning thought
the Zerg you estimated at about 50 million, wheras the flood could be anything below or beyond.

And might I add, that was me being generous anyways.

See above, population is important, but population growth, density, etc, are as important too and as much of a factor itself as the original numbers were. It’s factually proven that the Flood have reproductive rates that continuously accelerate given a source of prey, any source of prey.

Originally posted by Burning thought
In the games there are not millions of flood are there when you fight them theres groups of combat forms, infections and maybe carriers on average but their not large groups

Dear, dear, another case of extreme shortsightedness. In the games, the part that the Chief explored was only a minute part of the entire installation. And you were fighting hundreds of Flood in said, minute part of the entire installation. Simply because you, as Chief, have not seen overwhelming numbers of Flood doesn’t mean that there’s only that little meager amount. Hundreds were in the Library level alone.
Originally posted by Burning thought
halo 1 at the end theres groups of like 8 infections a couple of carriers and prob like 5 combat forms. Problem with me i just ran through them trying to escape and ended up with aout 10 of such groups chasing me which made it more difficult yet i remember escaping luckily.

What do you want, an “I Survived The Flood” official t-shirt or something?

Remember that the Library was short and cramped and very prone for Flood to come skipping around the corners and from underneath ducts to try and take a chunk out of you. The thing is, that’s only the Flood that was in the Library in the first place, what makes you think that the Flood witnessed and fought by the Chief are the majority, as said above?

The Library was short and cramped and full of halls, obviously there would be a lot less Flood than there would have been in the open, does that make sense?

Originally posted by Burning thought
so far i see the zerg winning still, maybe only just but especially now theres no hard proof that the flood actually out number the zerg which are obviously tougher than the flood one on one, so this battle can go either way depending on numbers

There’s no hard proof that the Flood actually outnumber the Zerg, but the whole point I’m getting at here is that they reproduce a lot faster than the Zerg, that’s been factually stated and backed up. This is where my “oh, but there will always be more” idea comes from, from their exponential regression rate of reproduction. The Zerg can’t go from a few hundred to a million in a matter of a few days. And it isn’t as if they are starting out from scratch here, their numbers, if all stockpiled up, are still quite considerable, probably somewhere in the tens of millions from the feeding on Covenant, Human, and Forerunners.

Originally posted by Burning thought
i still see them using the Scourge and banelings once the overmind/kerrigen realises the flood increase their numbers on dead zerg forces they will use forces that simply have nothing left but acidic and burning remains if any at all to feed on like scourge and banelings,

And where would these Scourge and Banelings be coming from? As I said before, somewhere along the line they need to be produced by something and the transported to the site of the battle itself. They can’t just spawn out of nowhere. And it would be near impossible to get through a Flood blockade of ships up above the atmosphere if they were being flown in from another planet. They have no form of cloaking or masking their approach, any transports and their convoys and escorts would be vaporized or blown into shreds before they get within range. If detected, not one Scourge would make it through if there’s more than a few ships.
Covenant take their detection gear very seriously.

”Not a single rock larger than a centimeter could enter this space without being identified, targeted, and vaporized.”

Epilogue “HARBINGER”, Halo: First Strike – Eric Nylund

Even if they were sent from the actual hive cluster itself, it would be an extremely stupid idea to sent only living ordnance to go ahead and engage the enemy. The Flood would just keep on charging and gunning, because other than explosions (Baneling’s armor would probably still melt under a plasma rifle shot and if one Scourge explodes, all of them explode.) every now and then, there’s no real way to stop the Flood from making a sweeping advance, running and driving through the blasts and going straight for the hive cluster and burning it down to the ground. The Zerg need more than suicide infantry alone, they need ground units to stop armies from advancing so.

Originally posted by Burning thought
and so far dont seem to damage eachother in their explosions which i suppose make sense

No, it doesn’t make sense at all, Burning, Scourge are the air version of suicide infantry and they can easily blow each other up by accident, as stated earlier. It’s simply a game mechanic, that’s all; in a realistic situation “bang” lings can also destroy themselves if they were clustered up.

The game mechanic in Starcraft doesn’t allow you to destroy your own units by accident. The game mechanic in Halo though is a bit more realistic considering the fact that you can shoot a carrier form once and accidentally blow the entire chamber or room up.

Originally posted by Burning thought
i still say a combination of these and scourge would eventually destroy even a group of flood that are in greater number than the zerg themselves

Sure, if the Flood sweeping advance stood still and did absolutely nothing to hold off the living bombs flying and rolling towards them. Take that in mind, they’re armed with lots of guns and vehicles too. The Scourge would have probably a better chance than the banelings because they have more room to maneuver in the sky, while the banelings, not being remarkably fast, would probably just get shot or blown up by a tank shell or a rocket and cause chain reactions everywhere. This is not a situation where the baneling can be used effectively.
Originally posted by Burning thought
which has no proof behind it that flood have larger numbers.

Yes, because they grow fast to the point where any estimate made would probably be very inaccurate anyways. See, I’ve already explained above why rate of growth is important, possibly even more so, than the actual population itself.

Originally posted by DarkC
seriously, what use would Zerg have with a pair of dead human legs other than to eat?

I can think of something... 😉

Originally posted by OMG-Toothpaste
I can think of something... 😉

And that would be?

..

😐

Originally posted by BlaxicanHydra
..

😐


If OMG means what I think he means, that's quite disgusting. I'd be normally inclined to laugh, but even so.

Lemme put it this way; my implying that her legs remain whole and attached to one another after the clawing it took dangling over the pit is just an assumption.

wow.. u guys have a small sense of humor...
and what do u think OMG means?

Originally posted by OMG-Toothpaste
wow.. u guys have a small sense of humor...
and what do u think OMG means?

Oh my God?

Nah, it's the fact that the woman got messily bisected in half that makes it truly disgusting.

Originally posted by DarkC
If OMG means what I think he means, that's quite disgusting.

How does "Oh My God" make it disgusting?

Originally posted by OMG-Toothpaste
How does "Oh My God" make it disgusting?

No, it isn't that, I thought you may have been referring to something sexually related.

131

there is no way halo could beat starcraft. Halo does not have that much that you don't see but the world of Starcraft is ever-changing. People are constantly at war, and armies are massive compared to that of Halo. Halo would have trouble surviving an attack from terran only, let only zerg and protoss.

Originally posted by Kupo_Avalanche
there is no way halo could beat starcraft.

Gosh, fanboys are everwhere. No reason, and stating that their force would win without a doubt.

Stop trying to state it as though it were fact, thanks.

Originally posted by Kupa_Avalanche
Halo does not have that much that you don't see but the world of Starcraft is ever-changing.

And that's all? That's your reasoning?

It's flawed. Halo doesn't have quite the amount of diversity that the StarCraft world offers, but by no means is it a real factor in any conflict related circumstances. It can even be a disadvantage at times, when armies waste precious resources attempting to counter each and every single type of unit, when the Halo world simply offers a short range of units and vehicles, but that which can do a lot. For example, the siege tank for the Terran, as powerful as it is, cannot attack air while the Scorpion MBT's can. The siege tank, as durable as it is, cannot hope to last if it's attacked medium-close range by infantry, while both Wraith and Scorpion tanks have, respectively, a chain gun and twin-linked plasma guns mounted to protect such. The Siege tank has to depend on other things to attack air, and the Terran has to use resources to compensate.

I'm not saying that the Halo world has better diversity, but try not to make it look like black and white affair, because hey, it isn't.

The hydralisk is an example of a unit that is actually truly dynamic, it's strong in both terms of melee and ranged, whereas a Firebat, or Corsair, while very useful when utilized correctly, are somewhat limited.

The point remains, the troops from the UNSC and the Covenant are very useful all-round, you don't have to build or train tons of different types of fighters, every marine can drive a Warthog and other vehicles, same thing with Covenant Elites. However, as an example, marines from the lore are neurally implanted only with the knowledge on how to operate their weapons and how to utilize their CMC suits. They aren't trained to drive a tank if the driver of one accidentally dies, aren't trained to pilot Wraiths.

They're aware of what they are, they just aren't trained on how to work them.

Originally posted by Kupo_Avalanche
People are constantly at war, and armies are massive compared to that of Halo. Halo would have trouble surviving an attack from terran only, let only zerg and protoss.

Proof?

Kupo, I'm sorry but you are being incredibly shortsighted when you say something like that. Let's take a good look at two respective races in the opposing sides and see where you are quite clearly wrong.

The Terran haven't relatively been around for the longest time. They've been multiplying in terms of population rapidly though, but that still doesn't match the relativity to the colonies of the UNSC. Remember, only 40,000 (I believe) Terrans were set to cold sleep and at least 8,000 of those died when the Sarengo crashes. Regardless, they, being humans, are dynamic and so manage to prosper and create a new society. Their numbers are considerble, but not enough.

The UNSC stands for United Nations Space Command, they were created some time back when Earth was far too overpopulated and began colonizing on habitable worlds, and continue to multiply, whereas about 400,000,000 "StarCraft" humans on Earth were "purged" by the UPL even before the Terrans were sent off. We're talking about the entire human race here, Kupo, not just the society resulting from a collection of Earth's outlaws as in the Terran, but the entire human race united as one. How in the world do you think the UNSC will be outnumbered by a society born of exiles?

oh btw i wuz refering to something sexual lol