Starcraft vs. Halo

Started by Burning thought9 pages

well i still dont see the books as canon as the games since its the games that is where it started, the books say a lot of outrageous things to make the book seem more exciting, only someone who is clinging to their own ideals wouldnt see that considering a zergling actually being killed by a farmer would seem impossible considering it can survive gauss rifle fire and marines have enhanced strength so if zerglings could be beaten so easily they wouldnt need guns when zerglings attack, like the guy in the trench at the beginning of broodwar, took one rocket launcher hit each to kill the zerglings (note the rockets blast radious explosion didnt kill the apparently "weak" zergling) which means that the marine with no ammo obviously didnt see them as weak things that a farmer with a lump of granite or pitchfork could kill

about Ultralisks? you didnt correct me or give any fact at all....in game-play we know about 6 crowded zealots can beat a ultralisk but in gameplay an ultralisk cannot knock foes over or do many movements at all and gameplay is not usually held over facts. Facts admit that its a massive creature, easily the size of a scorpion tank and can move fairly quickly using a pair of kaiser blades (cant remember if thats right but their blades) that can cut through tanks, so no...your "wrong" and the ultralisk is a living tank..

also theres still no reasoning to belive the flood can take over zerg nervous systems, it says quite clearly somewhere i read "nervous system is abnormal the Flood cannot infect them". Are you foolish enough to think the Zergs nervous system is normal? its seems viable enough to me that something controled by a hivemind itself would possibly not be able to be taken over, not to menstion abnormal systems. The scourge on other hand could swarm the flood, not together but as you say again, the flood are many, so the scourge can come down in the hundreds from diffretn directions so that the flood will not be able to take them all and there will be massive explosions ripping apart the flood reducing their numbers...where are all these magical flood coming from? you keep saying theres always more of them.....obviously not when their being vaporised in the hundreds or thousands

and onto mutalisks evoltuion....me bullshit reasoning? you assuming that a creature like a guardian or defiler who use acid exactley in similiar ways as the very creature it evolves from cannot have acid for blood? theres a hell of a lot of logic in thinking that it would and that theres no logic and complete mornonic stupidity to think the acid for blood would be completly changed in the few seconds of evolution? its acid blood is completly changed....you clearly have no imagination and need everything written official about things like this even if its near obvious that such creatures would have acidic blood.

Originally posted by Burning thought
well i still dont see the books as canon as the games since its the games that is where it started, the books say a lot of outrageous things to make the book seem more exciting

Denial and excuses. Whether you like it or not, it’s still canon.

It’s not to make a book seem more ‘exciting’, it’s to make the series and the world described in the games more realistic. You simply assume so because you believe them to be ‘outrageous’. They’re still canon, whether you see it that way or not. Who are you to contradict Blizzard?

Originally posted by Burning thought
only someone who is clinging to their own ideals wouldnt see that considering a zergling actually being killed by a farmer would seem impossible considering it [B]can survive gauss rifle fire[/b]

Um, yes, it is indeed possible. It’s along the same lines as bringing a knife to a gun fight. If the knife is particularly powerful and you’re good at using it, then why the hell wouldn’t you give yourself something familiar to work with? Learn to broaden your mind, because you seem sadly shortsighted.

Kirsten and Kiernan used rock chopping implements for a living, let’s face the fact that these weren’t your ordinary pitchforks. They knew how to use them and use them well, so they went at it.

Originally posted by Burning thought
and marines have enhanced strength so if zerglings could be beaten so easily they wouldnt need guns when zerglings attack

No, what the hell are you talking about? Of course they would use guns, you expect Terrans to gimp themselves in a fight? In a life or death situation, you care only about the odds that you’ll win, not how you’ll win and what actions that you would take to do so. They’re not like the Protoss or Covenant, who embrace the ability to use blades whenever possible.
Originally posted by Burning thought
like the guy in the trench at the beginning of broodwar, took one rocket launcher hit each to kill the zerglings (note the rockets blast radious explosion didnt kill the apparently "weak" zergling)

Those were Vulture grenades, you dimwit. Real rockets, like the ones fired from Missile Turrets, aren’t so tiny enough to be able to kill only one zergling each, otherwise they would be a complete waste of ordnance. The ones fired from the Missile Turret can instantly kill any zerglings in the blast radius, as reported in Shadow of the Xel’Naga.
Originally posted by Burning thought
which means that the marine with no ammo obviously didnt see them as weak things that a farmer with a lump of granite or pitchfork could kill

Obviously, they’re zerglings. And they’re not weak, they’re just not impervious to futuristic farm implements that could be used in melee. It isn’t as if every single farmer was hardcore and skilled, a lot of people got turn apart after the zerg breached the town.

Originally posted by Burning thought
about Ultralisks? you didnt correct me or give any fact at all....in game-play we know about 6 crowded zealots can beat a ultralisk but in gameplay an ultralisk cannot knock foes over or do many movements at all and gameplay is not usually held over facts.

That still doesn’t change the fact that it is a repetitively bred creature with known tactics and patterns of movement and attack. It stomps forward, slices, that’s the end of that. I didn’t dispute the Ultralisk’s freedom of game mechanics, Burning, only the inability of the Ultralisk to stand up to many foes with plasma-based melee weapons or ordnance.
Originally posted by Burning thought
Facts admit that its a massive creature, easily the size of a scorpion tank and can move fairly quickly using a pair of kaiser blades (cant remember if thats right but their blades) that can cut through tanks

Size doesn’t mean anything in terms of ‘tank’ factor, Burning.

It, unlike a tank, uses two melee weapons attached to its back instead of some kind of organic cannon.
It, unlike a tank, moves on four legs instead of two treads.
It, unlike a tank, is a living, bioorganic creature.

It has incredible survivability and strength. That still doesn’t objectively make it a tank.

Originally posted by Burning thought[
so no...your "wrong" and the ultralisk is a living tank..

No, I’m not, you’re objectively referring to the Ultralisk as a living tank. The zerg use them like living tanks just because they are so durable and powerful, but that doesn’t make them living tanks. As far as I’m concerned they are massive, quadrapedic beasts with survivability and power. Referring to them directly as living tanks is nothing but zealous fanboyism.
Originally posted Burning thought
also theres still no reasoning to belive the flood can take over zerg nervous systems, it says quite clearly somewhere i read "nervous system is abnormal the Flood cannot infect them".

That was OMG-Toothpaste’s statement, to be precise, and I clearly stated that the Flood are able to tap into any nervous system (unless they’ve been repeatedly exposed to plasma radiation through a very long duration) and are able to force a match, despite the structure in which it is housed.

They are able to infect any sentient organism with sufficient biomass to support them.

Written by Bungie and stated by Cortana.
Case closed, game, set and match.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Are you foolish enough to think the Zergs nervous system is normal?

A remarkably stupid statement. The Flood’s main weaponry is the ability to assimilate any sentient race containing a into its forces, as I’ve shown above. The Flood has been shown to take over any race with a central nervous system presented to them, Forerunners, Brutes, Jackals, Elites, Grunts, Humans, etc. Each race has their unique ways of bodily functions (like the Grunts having to breathe supercooled methane gas), it isn’t as if their nervous systems operate in each and exactly the same way.

To the Flood’s eyes, any being with a central nervous system and calcium-rich biomass is considered ‘normal’.

Originally posted by Burning thought
its seems viable enough to me that something controled by a hivemind itself would possibly not be able to be taken over, not to menstion abnormal systems.

Bullshit, otherwise the Dark Archon’s Mind Control would be completely negated against the zerg. The Hivemind, if it had the capacity to do such a thing, would have instantly burned through whatever control the Archon had established over it. Know what the hell you are talking about before spewing off randomized nonsense like this.

If a Dark Archon can indefinitely Mind Control the Swarm, then a Flood Infection form should be able to tap into the central nervous system, find out how the zergling/hydralisk/whatever works and be able to sever its link to the Swarm. The Flood are able to actively rip information and memories from its host’s mind.

Originally posted by Burning thought
The scourge on other hand could swarm the flood, not together but as you say again, the flood are many, so the scourge can come down in the hundreds from diffretn directions so that the flood will not be able to take them all

The Flood might not be able to take them all, Burning, but a good number of Scourge would be vaporized or shot into insubstantial threads. Remember, a Scourge has massive damage; the zerg would be stupid to use them in clustered groups. They’re like sheep; if one blows up early all of them blow up early.
Originally posted by Burning thought
and there will be massive explosions ripping apart the flood reducing their numbers...

And so will the Zerg be going down too, heavily, but there’s always plenty more where both came from. It jus so happens that the Flood’s method of reproduction is far faster.

Originally posted by Burning thought
where are all these magical flood coming from? you keep saying theres always more of them.....obviously not when their being vaporised in the hundreds or thousands

Because they have been breeding for a very large amount of generations, Burning. And they breed at a exponential rate. Do the words “If a single carrier form escaped, the entire Earth could fall” mean nothing to you?

The Flood, already numerous at the time of the Forerunner’s delving into their study, fed on them plenty along the course of the war. The Flood were apparently so destructive and so all-consuming that the Forerunner’s only solution was to commit suicide and kill off all the rest of the races too in the galaxy to starve them to death. It didn’t work, the Flood were stupidly released by the Covenant and Humans who were both fed on, both factions killed Flood in the masses and both factions were still fighting a losing battle.

Think you that if hundreds of thousands of Flood are killed and that the Flood breed exponentially, that it will make much difference

Seriously, a Flood-controlled Covenant starship has the brains and the numbers to offhandedly decompress its launch bays to happily send a swarm of carrier forms at neighboring ships.

Originally posted by Burning thought
and onto mutalisks evoltuion....me bullshit reasoning? you assuming that a creature like a guardian or defiler who use acid exactley in similiar ways as the very creature it evolves from cannot have acid for blood?

Yes, it remarkably is bullshit reasoning, Burning.

The Zerg use genomes directly from the creature’s DNA that it took over, they can’t actively create them by themselves, otherwise every single minion in the Zerg race would have acid for blood. The Mutalisk is evolved from the Mantis Screamer, the Guardian its nesting form; I’m assuming that the Mantis Screamer had acid for blood before it was assimilated into the swarm, but nothing is known about the genetic makeup of its nesting form yet.

Originally posted by Burning thought
theres a hell of a lot of logic in thinking that it would

No, there’s no logical reasoning in it at all, Burning. What you’re using is inductive reasoning, not deductive, something that is definitively logic.

Learn to review your reasoning before attempting to slap the ‘logic’ tags on it.

Originally posted by Burning thought
and that theres no logic and complete mornonic stupidity

Dear, dear, I seem to have touched a nerve.
Originally posted by Burning thought[
to think the acid for blood would be completly changed in the few seconds of evolution?

Who knows? We don’t.

It isn’t obvious at all, Burning thought, you’re just the one throwing random assumptions all around like they’re treats to be handed out at Halloween. I’m the one sticking to the known facts. Unless it’s been confirmed or even slightly mentioned by a canon source, then it’s a moot point and cannot be used in a debate.

Originally posted by Burning thought
its acid blood is completly changed

Completely? No, not completely, not the biogenetic makeup of the blood itself. However, the pH of bodily substances, such as blood, can easily change. Our bodies do it all the time, we even house pH buffers to safeguard against one extreme or the other. Other species can survive with a far wider range of pH. It’s as believable as your assumption that they do have acid blood (which, personally I can’t really see why they would in a nesting form).
Originally posted by Burning thought
you clearly have no imagination

In debates? No, I don’t, there’s not supposed to be ‘imagination’ in the first placei n a debate, there’s supposed to be logical reasoning, facts, known evidence, etc. You can go ahead and have your imagination, I’m perfectly happy with sticking to the facts. I can’t stress that enough.

Originally posted by Burning thought
and need everything written official about things like this even if its near obvious that such creatures would have acidic blood.

And is there something wrong with that, Burning? Would you rather start making things up, like you’ve been clearly doing for the last dozen or so posts of yours? I’d personally rather we stick to information that we know, that has been shown, rather than basing my support near purely upon speculations and assumptions and lies.

ive made belivable things up..thats the diffrence, its belivable that a guardian, hydralisk or Devourer has acid blood because they all use acid like the mutalisk so its belivable that like the mutalisk its got acid for blood, unfortunatley theres no evidance because their never spoken of about their blood only the Mutalisk has been but the zerg wouldnt change the blood which is a useful form of attack that could devetate its enemies even after the creature which has the blood is dead.

yes..Ultralisk is said in the manual to be a living tank to the zerg, no it has no guns or bio weapnry but its like a melee bio tank then, the zerg still call it a tank....what i meant was its the zergs form of tank and its armor is equel or greater and its weaponry can slice through almost any material with ease as it says in the book.

yes..single carrier hits earth their dead...why? obviously because the amount of people who would be infected but the problem is the flood wont be able to infect the zerg if they only use scourge...or flyers cuz their on the ground..and the scourge explode, infact if the Zerg wanted to they could stay in space and send streams of scourge from diffrent directions and simply destory the flood without many losses since Scourge are expendible things.

Originally posted by Burning thought
ive made belivable things up..thats the diffrence,

Don’t flatter yourself, Burning. You’ve made things up, some are possibilities but others are just plain out lies when I’ve checked it, in a pathetic attempt to turn the tables in your favour. The fact remains that it if it isn’t confirmed or if it is an ambiguity in any way, then it cannot be used as a component in a debate. There’s no “guesses” in a debate, Burning, but you still keep doing it, as well with your lies. I’ve stuck to facts and references as people should be doing. You haven’t.
Originally posted by Burning thought
its belivable that a guardian, hydralisk or Devourer has acid blood because they all use acid like the mutalisk

No, that’s an example of a logical fallacy called affirming the consequent. There’s no real proof for it and you’re still spouting it as though it should be fact. You’re basically generalizing that:

A is similar to B
B has characteristicY
Therefore A must also feature characteristic Y as well.

It’s just a really fast and not thought out form of reasoning, you’re simply generalizing it in your favour.

Originally posted by Burning thought
so its belivable that like the mutalisk its got acid for blood

Wrong. See above.

It’s a possibility, that’s all, but it cannot be used in a debate because it is not cold, hard, undeniable fact. You’re still lamely casting around randomly left and right, resorting to lies and unconfirmed, hasty assumptions instead of real evidence.

Originally poster by Burning thought
unfortunatley theres no evidance because their never spoken of about their blood only the Mutalisk has been

Correct, there is no evidence suggesting anything of the sort. So it should not be used in a debate. There is no question about it. We allow the Mutalisk to because it has been shown such.
Originally posted by Burning thought
but the zerg wouldnt change the blood which is a useful form of attack that could devetate its enemies even after the creature which has the blood is dead.

No, I expect they wouldn’t, but you cannot just simply assume that both alternate forms of the Mantis Screamer has the exact same type of blood that the Screamer did in the first place. Capabilities that have no irrefutable proof are not allowed in a debate, get it? Otherwise I could go ahead speculating, for the sake of an example, that the acid would have no effect on the Flood’s altered biomass chemical structure. But it has no real scientific backup so I don’t go running around making ridiculously lacking assumptions left and right.

No, its own blood has been shown to work against them as well, even burn its owner at times. Littlefield and his mutalisk were hideously fused together because of the blood that was gushing out, something only physically possible if both bodies were liquefying.

Originally posted by Burning thought
yes..single carrier hits earth their dead...why? obviously because the amount of people who would be infected but the problem is the flood wont be able to infect the zerg if they only use scourge

Yes, because I’m sure that the answer to everything is the Scourge, especially when the Overmind took the trouble to create an entire host of ground unit that far outnumber his minions in the skies. Christ, use your brain.

There can be only so many Scourge without the presence of workers to collect resources to prouduce more. And buildings to produce said Scourge. And overlords to direct said Scourge. There needs to be some way of financing, in this case just resources, to actually be able to produce said scourge. Why do you think so many factories got trashed and bombed in WWII?

The Flood, if encountering only air, can pretty much just rush as fast as they can anyways to reach the Hive Cluster to start screwing around and infecting Drones. There will always be ground forces and defenses to protect workers, otherwise the acid splashes and splotches caused by the mutalisks, guardians, and devourers would just damage their structures and creep. And I don’t think Overlords would be stupid enough to do that, let alone be enough of an idiot to order Scourge to detonate so close to the Hive Cluster. Which is where ground forces come in.

Originally posted by Burning thought
...or flyers cuz their on the ground..and the scourge explode, infact if the Zerg wanted to they could stay in space and send streams of scourge from diffrent directions and simply destory the flood without many losses since Scourge are expendible things.

Wrong, their numbers are limited in space. Structures cannot survive without the presence of creep and there needs to be more Scourge from that. You’re disregarding the number one rule of any RTS, for any units or fighters there has to be some kind of payment. Even if they did somehow summon endless clouds of Scourge from everywhere (and it would take an extremly damn long time to do that without a Warp field) More would be destroyed from each other’s explosions, if they were sent in clusters.

And even if the Zerg did stay in space in limbo, a collection of Flood Brain Forms can just pilot Covenant and Human ships and take the fight to the Zerg there. For all their vaunted toughness, I don’t think any Zerg would be able to remotely survive a plasma torpedo one hundred meters in diameter or a huge salvo (reportedly several hundred missiles in each) anti-air missiles big enough to merit a robotic hydraulic loader. And I didn’t even go into single man fighters or “boarding” crews (Carrier Form decompression insertion) who are meant to be killed anyways.

The Scourge are meant to be expendable, they’re suicide bombers anyways and so are built to be destroyed. However, they have no real way of being produced other than though an egg or a larvae in a hatchery, and if there is to be an endless swarm of Scourge to match the exponential growth and numbers of the Flood then there has to be some way of producing more.

hmm some BS...m8 this isnt RTS standards or a game, this is being looked at realistically and realistically you dont need drones on the ground...where are you pulling this rubbish from? the zerg can only have a certain amount in space, kerrigans main fortress is in space on a floating platform, there are enormous hive ships that cradle the overlords FYI , there could be entire broods worth of creatures...all it takes is the primary hives to produce larvae and so each larvae into a couple of scourge, each the power to cause enormous damage, their such simple strains 2 come from 1...theres no truth behind what you said that he created ground forces because they outnumber the air? riiigghttt...no..use your brain and actually think before you post.

also where are these convenant and human ships coming from? okie then the zerg will bring Terran and protoss infested forces to destroy them if they still dont use scourge to bring down capital ships and devourers for fighters...infact thinking on it the scourge could be used for almost anything in numbers, annhilating the flood, starving them, destorying larger ships and infested Terran and Protoss ships would be a threat

Originally posted by Burning thought
hmm some BS...m8 this isnt RTS standards or a game, this is being looked at realistically and realistically you dont need drones on the ground...where are you pulling this rubbish from?

Wrong. It isn’t rubbish, Burning thought. Realistically you need some way of maintaining and supplying your forces. Something cannot be made from nothing, in this case you cannot state at all that Zerg do not need drones on the ground to gather resources for use by the Swarm, because that’s what they were made for. There has to be some way to maintain continuation of zerg, who are bred to be supported by the mineral deposits and fueled by vespene gas, two highly common resources found in their sector of the galaxy.

What the hell are you spouting on about, not needing to feed an army? Every army and every serious fighting force needs support and maintenance, whether it be Protoss, Zerg, Terran, Flood, Covenant, whatever. Pretending otherwise is an incredibly stupid thing to do. You can’t have a army starve to death. The Zerg are a dynamic species, but they don’t have an enormous stockpile of resources somewhere or Kerrigan wouldn’t have had to raid the Kel-Morian Combine to nick their mineral supplies. And don’t be such an idiot boy, real-time strategy games have their good roots in real-time strategy, including costs, death, etc.

Originally posted by Burning thought
the zerg can only have a certain amount in space, kerrigans main fortress is in space on a floating platform, there are enormous hive ships that cradle the overlords FYI

Lies. There is no such mention of a hive itself acting as a real ship in any history or listed capabilities of the Zerg. The only reason they can traverse in masses through space is by use of Zerg Behemoths, mentioned and described in Gabriel Mesta’s Shadow of the Xel’Naga. And they’re reportedly slow. The only mentioned and implied function of these creatures are to transport, not nurture or maintain. Only hatcheries, lairs, hives and colonies can produce creep, none of which can be housed within a Behemoth, the structures are just too big. So they pack drones.
Originally posted by Burning thought
there could be entire broods worth of creatures...all it takes is the primary hives to produce larvae and so each larvae into a couple of scourge, each the power to cause enormous damage, their such simple strains 2 come from 1.

And where are these ‘primary hives’ based upon, hmm? You’re making wild little assumptions again, you’re telling me the method by which Scourge are produced (when I know very well already, thank you) instead of telling me how they would be mass produced in space without any viable sources of resources? Dear dear, you fail to understand the fundamental concepts of wartime.
Originally posted by Burning thought
..theres no truth behind what you said

Lies, blustering, again.

I have already said that I base my points and arguments from known facts and figures and what I have already seen and what has already been proven already. Telling me that there is no truth behind what I said is denying public irrefutable fact, which is impossible.

Originally posted by Burning thought
that he created ground forces because they outnumber the air?

No. Wrong. I clearly stated that the ground forces were meant to protect the workers or resource gatherers. How is this not understandable? Read my previous post more carefully, nowhere did I even remotely imply that he creates ground forces with the primary reasoning that they outnumber the air. It’s just a stated fact, the strains of Zerg ground forces outnumber the strains of airborne.

See, the concept behind dominating anything is that you leave it intact and take it for your own purposes. It’s happened in all wars, taking over enemy factories, supply line raids, etc. In the purpose of the zerg, they still want the world intact enough to be able to mine and harvest gas from it, they likely don’t want a world with its landscape screwed up and non viable because they’ve sent in far too many Scourge. Whoops!

Originally posted by Burning thought
riiigghttt...no..use [B]your brain and actually think before you post.[/b]

Oh dear, yet another insult stinking of unoriginality. Hahaha, how many times have I told you to come up with something original for a change? Stealing ideas, tsk tsk.
Originally posted by Burning thought
also where are these convenant and human ships coming from?

Gee, I dunno. Stolen, maybe? It’s remarkably easy for the Flood to take a ship over, from how it was described in Ghosts of Onyx. The only realistic choice a ship master has if he even suspects his ship has been leaked to the Flood is to self-destruct, killing him and the crew.

A human also chose to set a captured Covenant ship to explode and killing her teammates and the rest of the crew as well rather than chance a return back to Earth with the possibility of Flood still on it. These are only two of the ships mentioned.

Originally posted by Burning thought
okie then the zerg will bring Terran and protoss infested forces to destroy them if they still dont use scourge to bring down capital ships and devourers for fighters...infact thinking on it the scourge could be used for almost anything in numbers, annhilating the flood, starving them, destorying larger ships

What the hell? Intelligent infested Terran are far and few. The few troops with Samir Duran probably didn’t even realize he was infested in the first place. How he became infested exactly is unknown, but Kerrigan was infested by none other than the Overmind himself, which is why she remains intelligent to this day. We know what mass produced Terran can do, they just explode spectacularly and they move faster than zerglings. What about infested protoss? Why are you assuming anything? It isn’t confirmed what they would do.

Yes, capital ships are taken down rather easy in the game or in the lore itself, really, because for some reason Blizzard had decided not to give them point defense systems and so they can’t really handle multiple single man fighters that well despite their relative massive size. It’s rather ridiculous having a battlecruiser having to fire its main laser batteries at something like a devourer, isn’t it? On the other hand, the UNSC and Covenant ships do. If you want to shoot a movelist at me, fine, I’ll play your game.

The UNSC ones are armed with rather large pods stocked with Archer anti-air missiles that fire several hundred missiles (the Pillar of Autumn, a heavy cruiser, could fire about five hundred) that are digitalized as to track specific targets or in the case of an area of effect, use a program to track individual targets per missile. Think of their programming as along the same lines as smart Spider Mines, used by the Terran. The UNSC Magnetic Acceleration Cannon can fire an ultradense, heated round at a fraction of the speed of light. Think you that there are any Zerg structures that will survive that without getting obliterated or severely incapacitated? (Maybe the Ultralisk Cavern or the Hive, but other than that…) The UNSC are also armed with Shiva nukes and nuclear mines, which can probably solve the Scourge problem.

The Covenant ship weaponry are recordedly notoriously accurate; they are armed with two types of laser batteries mounted in various places along the hull, antimissile (to use against those pesky Scourge) and point defense (against any larger things like Mutalisks or Devourers), and they recharge extremely fast. I had already mentioned that their main plasma turrets are white-blue hot and are one hundred meters across, and can either be a targeted projectile or manually guided. However, since Flood are still somewhat slow in hand to eye coordination in terms of reflexes and control, I’ll let the guided part pass. The Flood can’t really have good enough reflexes to do that, but they still know the basics.

Also, both types of ships are undisputedly superior in terms of speed. The Pillar of Autumn can move, at full power and energy shunted to the reactors, several AU (one AU is the measured distance from Earth to the sun) in a matter of minutes. The Covenant ships move even faster. That’s blisteringly fast. The ships can just keep firing while retreating and the Zerg will never be able to catch up with them. There’s also the concept of precision Slipspace travel; the UNSC traverse from one system to another within tweeks, the Terran’s Norad II, even in subwarp, takes three months to traverse from Tarsonis to Mar Sara. Cortana has stated that the Covenant ships, if handled right, can plot a course with error no longer than an atom’s diameter. If somehow the reactors run out of power and need recharging, they can just use the reserved energy in the Slipspace capacitors to jump to the other side of the chase and recharge while the Zerg find their bearings and charge to the attack again.

Futilely, if I may add. See how pointless your air argument gets?

Originally posted by Burning thought
and infested Terran and Protoss ships would be a threat

More assumptions.

You’re assuming that the infestation of Protoss or Terran will give them knowledge of how to actually work their ships (Don’t forget, the Protoss ships are part psionically controlled, remember Tassadar just standing there at the controls and not touching anything?) and even more, use them effectively in ship to ship combat. The Flood have been confirmed to absorb memories and information for their hosts. What about zerg? When have they been mentioned to do such a thing? The only thing that really comes to mind is the Queen’s spore, but that only allows vision and possibly sound. Eyes of the Overmind.

Only people like Kerrigan, carefully crafted by the Overmind himself and Samir Duran, for example, still can hold information. However, Kerrigan and Samir Duran are the only two; Duran’s off on his own will and Kerrigan’s reigning as Queen B!tch. The infested troops produced by a Queen, however, aren’t refined, their minds and personalities are completely wiped and replaced with the exact motives and drives of the Queen. They’re not even chemically stable enough to act as real troops, just as suicide bombers.

Originally posted by DarkC
More assumptions.

You’re assuming that the infestation of Protoss or Terran will give them knowledge of how to actually work their ships (Don’t forget, the Protoss ships are part psionically controlled, remember Tassadar just standing there at the controls and not touching anything?) and even more, use them effectively in ship to ship combat. The Flood have been confirmed to absorb memories and information for their hosts. What about zerg? When have they been mentioned to do such a thing? The only thing that really comes to mind is the Queen’s spore, but that only allows vision and possibly sound. Eyes of the Overmind.

Only people like Kerrigan, carefully crafted by the Overmind himself and Samir Duran, for example, still can hold information. However, Kerrigan and Samir Duran are the only two; Duran’s off on his own will and Kerrigan’s reigning as Queen B!tch. The infested troops produced by a Queen, however, aren’t refined, their minds and personalities are completely wiped and replaced with the exact motives and drives of the Queen. They’re not even chemically stable enough to act as real troops, just as suicide bombers.

who said anytihng about the infested units being intelligent, they just have to move the infested ship into or near any covenant cruiser and then bang...can you imagine the devastation? if something as smal las an infested terran can cause a massive building destroyng blast then something the size of a protoss carrier or terran cruiser could annhilate half a space fleet, regardless, succubus could control the minds of the brain flood controlling the covenant/USEC ships and make them collide eachother, shoot themselves..etc etc

DarkC you have attracted the attention of one of my clients *cough*Guilty*cough*. And well... we have a proposition for you.

hopefully it will be something that will dislodge his delusions of the flood beating the zerg...this is getting boring and is actually this entire debate between me and Darkc is offtopic and irrelivent to the thread 😆 even tho it forms a fairly large chunk of it

Well if it means that much to you and if you're all that sure that the Halo team will get stomped by the SC team then fine, add the Flood to the topic 😬

EDIT- And no, the proposition had nothing to do with that.

dammit

*shrug*

Might as well.. You two have spent two and a half pages debating it.

i dont know why i bother debating it....i know the zerg would win and Darkc methods of debating are not able to get me to change my mind...prob coz i havnt got much else to do so what the heck

Originally posted by Burning thought
who said anytihng about the infested units being intelligent, they just have to move the infested ship into or near any covenant cruiser and then bang...can you imagine the devastation? if something as smal las an infested terran can cause a massive building destroyng blast then something the size of a protoss carrier or terran cruiser could annhilate half a space fleet, regardless, succubus could control the minds of the brain flood controlling the covenant/USEC ships and make them collide eachother, shoot themselves..etc etc

Have you not read anything that I just said regarding the Covenant and Human ship traveling speeds? Why do you deny the Zerg’s inability to get within their own weapons range before all those abilities and all those effects you just described to me are completely negated by the fact that the Zerg Succubus cannot mind control from, as doan_m described earlier, astronomical distances. Unlike you I don’t make things up, facts and figures that I’m using are taken straight from the games, the books, dialogue used in either, etc. These are proven, there’s no denying that at all. Unlike you, I state which sources I get my information from.

The new Zerg Succubus, if it is going to be a standardized, semi-intelligent unit and can be mass produced at a price, is not going to be nearly as strong or powerful as infested Kerrigan. And Kerrigan has to be within the same room or within the vicinity of that room to read another human’s mind (Queen of Blades novel) and be able to pluck information from that mind, let alone controlling it. Confederacy-trained Ghosts, the really powerful ones in terms of psi, can mind control to an extent (Starcraft: Ghost – Nova by Keith A. Decandido) but Nova had to be in the same room as Marcus to be able to do it. Kerrigan’s strong enough to be able to maintain control of her own brood, but even she cannot touch anything that’s that insanely far away. Even the Protoss’s Dark Archons, as elder and powerful as they are, still must be able to be within sight of their quarries before taking control of their minds.

I’ve already told you the distances at which some of the ships in the Haloverse can traverse at. The UNSC are slower that the Covenant and a destroyer can reportedly travel several AU (one AU is estimated to be around 149, 598,000 kilometers) in maybe twenty to thirty minutes. Their space travel is fast to the point where Cortana, after being asked which was the nearest planet, says:

“Beta Gabriel. Fourteen million kilometers. Practically next door.”

-(The Fall of Reach, -Eric Nylund)

The Zerg, from what I have seen, have recorded nothing even remotely resembling that kind of ship to ship speed; nor, for that matter, Protoss or Terran. The Flood controlled ships can just keep on running and gunning and the Zerg will probably never be able to catch up to them. A plasma torpedo travels at 150,000 km per second. A MAC slug travels marginally faster by a few seconds. In this case point-blank range would be considered at around 600,000 km, something that I very much doubt that the Zerg would be able to even see the ships with their naked eyes, let alone being able to fire shots at them. The UNSC ships can just keep kiting the Zerg around in circles if they wish, firing massive salvos of HE self-guided missiles or dropping preprogrammed nuclear mines or missiles and blowing Zerg up while they furiously, and futilely, strive to get within range to be able to do something.

Originally posted by Burning thought
hopefully it will be something that will dislodge his delusions of the flood beating the zerg...

Really, it’s quite amusing hearing you accusing me of having delusions when you’re the one making things up, using facts that are false or unconfirmed. It’s really not that hard to see that one person (me) is stubbornly trying to stick to the facts, which I have stressed several times throughout the course of this debate, and you, who repeatedly are grabbing at straws here by lying or making things up. You’re pathetically clinging to everything even remotely resembling an advantage, such as “Hey, let’s only send Scourge in!” (which I had already explained why that would be a stupid and unrealistic idea)

After all this cacophony of deceit from you I find it hard to believe that you actually have the stones to tell someone else that they’re delusional when very ironically you have been factually delusional on and off this entire debate.

Maybe hypocrisy is second nature to you. We don’t know. It’s still perpetually amusing to me though, because you, unlike other people I debate with, do it repeatedly and flagrantly obvious.

You’re not in a position to justify calling anyone delusional, let alone myself, because no one I have ever debated with in this entire forum has had the audacity (and stupidity) to attempt to make ‘facts’ up, or assume with no real basis in fact, just to try and get themselves in the favor.

Originally posted by Burning thought
this is getting boring and is actually this entire debate between me and Darkc is offtopic and irrelivent to the thread 😆 even tho it forms a fairly large chunk of it

Oh, the old “boring” debate cliché. God, people never learn.

Despite the fact that what we re discussing has technically less relevance than to the actual topic at hand (and oh look, Blaxican changed it anyways, thanks Blaxican) we’re still talking about the Zerg here, who at the time were a relevant race participating in this clash of the worlds. It isn’t entirely off topic nor entirely irrelevant.

I was asking why the Flood aren’t and shouldn’t be mentioned in this conflict, then you blunder along and make a statement that Zerg are, in the object sense, greater than zerg and smarter. Then you go ahead and spout shortsighted nonsense that only a gamer who has a narrow knowledge of the game has. Things start.

Originally posted by BlaxicanHydra
DarkC you have attracted the attention of one of my clients *cough*Guilty*cough*. And well... we have a proposition for you.

What is this preposition you speak of?

And what’s “guilty” supposed to mean?

What is this preposition you speak of?

And what’s “guilty” supposed to mean?

Guilty as in Guilty Gear. Anyway our proposition was that if you join su you could achieve a power greater then any admin.

You know what.... (And I know I said I was leaving...)
After carefully reading this whole debate, and doing a bit of research,
I would have to agree with DarkC that the flood might actually win against the Zerg...
Sorry BT but a lot of the stuff you said and stated isn't true or fact.
Like DarkC said you have been making some stuff up to make the Zerg look more powerful.
And if you think the Zerg could beat the Flood in a fight that's your opinion and you entitled to it.
But all of DarkC's posts state facts, truths, and even corrections on your bashing BT, I'm sorry

but I think the Flood win...

And what is this power you speak of Blaxcian?

Many abilities some would consider to be... unnatural.

Really....
would you care to give some examples of these 'Un-natural' powers?