Originally posted by Bardock42
I have a question, since I want to be a scene kid and label bands (best would be correctly), what are the major genres and how are they defined? You may all reply but I will probably only take AC's into consideration...basically for one reason I shall not further explain.
I'm not a scene kid. This thread was a joke, made from the petty argument AC, Silverstein, and I had over if Hawthorne Heights is metal or hardcore... and the a few other related things.
So what do you think, Bardock42? Is Hawthorne Heights, headbanging, moshing, hail-to-sataning material that goes with the ranks of Slayer and Amon Amarth? 😛
Originally posted by Bardiel13
I'm not a scene kid. This thread was a joke, made from the petty argument AC, Silverstein, and I had over if Hawthorne Heights is metal or hardcore... and the a few other related things.So what do you think, Bardock42? Is Hawthorne Heights, headbanging, moshing, hail-to-sataning material that goes with the ranks of Slayer and Amon Amarth? 😛
I know how the Thread came to life.
I never heard any Hawthorne Heights so I have no clue.
My question is still there and I want to have an answer....since it is all on topic too, I feel good being on topic.
Originally posted by Bardiel13
Well, Bardock, I'm not 100% sure what EVERY base genre is that scales down the genre tree, because I am not aware of every form of music. However, my specialty is metal, though I'm not sure if you'd like to hear about metal.
Sure then, tell me something about metal. What are the characteristics, how do I know if something is metal?
Bardock, don't listen to him, he has all the musical knowledge of Ashlee Simpson. He's speciality is thinking he knows, not actually knowing things.
Metal is simple to define, compare Metallica to Led Zeppelin. Faster, heavier, tends to me a lot more aggressive lyrically, but is also often mixed with moments of beauty as well as brutality, both musically and lyrically.
Metal is usually defined by the way the instruments are played. Harder, faster and more precise rhythms and structures, though this isn't always the case.
To answer your question, it's simple; The only genres that essentially need to be recognised by any comfortable, secure music fan are as follows:
Rock, metal, pop, hip hop, jazz, country etc. Those are the main genres, some of which, specifically rock and metal, have a few acceptable sub-genres.
The sub-genres for rock (although I rarely use these, I see no point) are as follows: Hard rock (Tool, Zeppelin etc.), soft rock (Grandaddy, Iron & Wine etc.), progressive rock (A bit blurry now, but you could say Rush, Yes, E.L.P, King Crimson; though they hate the label.) and instrumental rock (Godspeed, Esmerine etc.). That's about as far as you need to go with rock and its sub-genres.
Metal's acceptable sub-genres are as follows: Heavy metal (Black Sabbath, Pantera), thrash metal (Metallica, Slayer, Megadeth etc.), black metal (Emperor; Though they extended into so many permutations of metal, rock and classical that it's silly to call them anything besides that which they are mostly; metal. Darkthrone, Satyricon etc.), death metal (Morbid Angel etc.), and I suppose you could say power metal (Dragonforce etc.). The latter being largely metal based instrumentation with very soft melody and fantasy orientated lyrical references.
That said, I only know those genres incase something like this happens. I stick to rock, metal etc. It does the job and it's never wrong, always applicable. To refer to a band generally as metal is not as bad as trying to box them and doing so incorrectly.
Originally posted by Bardiel13
So what do you think, Bardock42? Is Hawthorne Heights, headbanging, moshing, hail-to-sataning material that goes with the ranks of Slayer and Amon Amarth? 😛
Slayer never do any of that in any seriousness.
A) Amon Amarth sound nothing like Slayer.
B) If it doesn't sound like Slayer, it's not metal? What a fool you are. Metal is one of the biggest genres there is, including such bands as Meshuggah, Slayer, Opeth and System of a Down.
C) None of those bands sound like each other, but they are all metal. Hawthorne Heights, on top of being shit, also sound nothing like them, but they are still metal.
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Slayer never do any of that in any seriousness.A) Amon Amarth sound nothing like Slayer.
B) If it doesn't sound like Slayer, it's not metal? What a fool you are. Metal is one of the biggest genres there is, including such bands as Meshuggah, Slayer, Opeth and System of a Down.
C) None of those bands sound like each other, but they are all metal. Hawthorne Heights, on top of being shit, also sound nothing like them, but they are still metal.
Congratulations, Alpha Centauri! You're officially talking out of your arse! I know Amon Amarth and Slayer sound nothing alike! Did you actually think that I was saying that Amon Amarth and Slayer were both a certain type of metal?! Slayer is Thrash Metal and Amon Amarth is Melodic Death Metal, I know this.
You think you're all-knowing, but what you're really doing is trying to twist my words to make me sound stupid. I know there are tons of sub-genres of metal! I know almost all of them by heart!
Now tell me, if Hawthorne Heights are metal, what genre do they fit into? I know they're not: Thrash, Death, Black, Power, Folk, Progressive, Nu, Metalcore, Grindcore, or Heavy. Do you simply think they're Alternative Metal? Come on, tell me.
I've tried to go through this agrument without stooping to your petty name-calling and insulting your intelligence by making stupid claims (to think that I was saying that Slayer and Amon Amarth are alike... please...)
Originally posted by Silverstein
funny cuz Hawthorne Heights is categorized under Rock/Post Hardcore/Pop Punk🙄 those damn metal heads creating useless names psshh, power metal, black metal? hahahah
So? I've seen Fall Out Boy catagorised as emo, as punk, it doesn't mean they are. Hawthorne Heights are a metal band, that's all there is to it.
Black metal etc are not useless labels, there are massively clear creative and technical definitions used by musicians and listeners alike that divide those genres. The same cannot be said for idiots who use terms like "Nintendocore", junior. It's all you silly teens saying "Oh it sounds a bit different so lets call it this!" or "It's made with a console so it's called Nintendocore.".
Originally posted by Bardiel13
You think you're all-knowing, but what you're really doing is trying to twist my words to make me sound stupid. I know there are tons of sub-genres of metal! I know almost all of them by heart!
First of all, I don't think I'm all-knowing, I just know that I am more knowledgeable and credible on this subject than you are. Second, you are the one making yourself look stupid, not me. I'm the one who can give examples, timeframes and reasoning. All you do is claim you know a lot because you like metal.
You know the labels that MySpace kids create, congratulations. Your trophy is in the mail. This is irrelevant as they mean nothing.
Originally posted by Bardiel13
I know they're not: Thrash, Death, Black, Power, Folk, Progressive, Nu, Metalcore, Grindcore, or Heavy. Do you simply think they're Alternative Metal? Come on, tell me.
Nu metal is extinct, more or less. Folk? Folk metal? What the hell are you on about now, you idiot? There's no such thing as folk metal.
Second, I don't recognise metalcore or grindcore as legitimate labels, so strike those off the list. They're pointless, because those bands are just different metal bands, alternative metal if you simply crave a label. I just call them metal, since they make a variation of metal music. It doesn't need a label, it's metal, so the label metal is enough.
For the record, all you are proving is that you are naive; furthermore, you did say that Slayer and Amon Amarth were alike, certainly implied it.
Look: "Is Hawthorne Heights, headbanging, moshing, hail-to-sataning material that goes with the ranks of Slayer and Amon Amarth?".
Stop trying to weasel out of it. You obviously hold the belief that they have fans who mosh, satanic lyrical matter and as a result, are alike.
-AC
I didn't want to delve into this, but I hate the whole "post-hardcore" genre label. It's a MySpace spawned, unnecessary evil, and a lot of bands are unfairly clumped into the group, and their namesake marred.
Throwdown? Hatebreed? All That Remains? Bleeding Through? These guys are considered "post hardcore"? Post implies that these bands fashioned themselves after hardcore musics supposed demise, when that's not the case. Hardcore is still alive. Just because the drum track doesn't include lines of symbol crashes and gallops, accompanied by a low tuned, two chord progression doesn't mean it's not hardcore. The bands lyrics, are by definitition, hardcore grade, most of the time.
Call it "hardcore metal", call it "metal", but this "post-hardcore" is about as silly a label as screamo/grindcore/deathcore bullshit subcategorization.
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
So? I've seen Fall Out Boy catagorised as emo, as punk, it doesn't mean they are. Hawthorne Heights are a metal band, that's all there is to it.Black metal etc are not useless labels, there are massively clear creative and technical definitions used by musicians and listeners alike that divide those genres. The same cannot be said for idiots who use terms like "Nintendocore", junior. It's all you silly teens saying "Oh it sounds a bit different so lets call it this!" or "It's made with a console so it's called Nintendocore.".
First of all, I don't think I'm all-knowing, I just know that I am more knowledgeable and credible on this subject than you are. Second, you are the one making yourself look stupid, not me. I'm the one who can give examples, timeframes and reasoning. All you do is claim you know a lot because you like metal.
You know the labels that MySpace kids create, congratulations. Your trophy is in the mail. This is irrelevant as they mean nothing.
Nu metal is extinct, more or less. Folk? Folk metal? What the hell are you on about now, you idiot? There's no such thing as folk metal.
Second, I don't recognise metalcore or grindcore as legitimate labels, so strike those off the list. They're pointless, because those bands are just different metal bands, alternative metal if you simply crave a label. I just call them metal, since they make a variation of metal music. It doesn't need a label, it's metal, so the label metal is enough.
For the record, all you are proving is that you are naive; furthermore, you did say that Slayer and Amon Amarth were alike, certainly implied it.
Look: "Is Hawthorne Heights, headbanging, moshing, hail-to-sataning material that goes with the ranks of Slayer and Amon Amarth?".
Stop trying to weasel out of it. You obviously hold the belief that they have fans who mosh, satanic lyrical matter and as a result, are alike.
-AC
falloutboy is pop punk, hawthorne is not metal, Black metal etc ARE useless labels, there are basically the same, its all just, growly yelling vocals, and some guitar solos.
im going to give up, cuz you not recognizing these legitmate labels, is simply just your own opinion and not fact at all. Your power metal, death metal, are useless and un necessary labels, because they all sound the same. Heavy metal or soft metal, its still metal right? 🙄 how come metal is allowed sub genres and these _____ metal names, but when Hardcore develops its own sub genres its ______core names, its suddenly useless? kids dont make up these sub genres, they're made by musicians and listeners alike that divide those genres.
💃
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
So? I've seen Fall Out Boy catagorised as emo, as punk, it doesn't mean they are. Hawthorne Heights are a metal band, that's all there is to it.Black metal etc are not useless labels, there are massively clear creative and technical definitions used by musicians and listeners alike that divide those genres. The same cannot be said for idiots who use terms like "Nintendocore", junior. It's all you silly teens saying "Oh it sounds a bit different so lets call it this!" or "It's made with a console so it's called Nintendocore.".
First of all, I don't think I'm all-knowing, I just know that I am more knowledgeable and credible on this subject than you are. Second, you are the one making yourself look stupid, not me. I'm the one who can give examples, timeframes and reasoning. All you do is claim you know a lot because you like metal.
You know the labels that MySpace kids create, congratulations. Your trophy is in the mail. This is irrelevant as they mean nothing.
Nu metal is extinct, more or less. Folk? Folk metal? What the hell are you on about now, you idiot? There's no such thing as folk metal.
Second, I don't recognise metalcore or grindcore as legitimate labels, so strike those off the list. They're pointless, because those bands are just different metal bands, alternative metal if you simply crave a label. I just call them metal, since they make a variation of metal music. It doesn't need a label, it's metal, so the label metal is enough.
For the record, all you are proving is that you are naive; furthermore, you did say that Slayer and Amon Amarth were alike, certainly implied it.
Look: "Is Hawthorne Heights, headbanging, moshing, hail-to-sataning material that goes with the ranks of Slayer and Amon Amarth?".
Stop trying to weasel out of it. You obviously hold the belief that they have fans who mosh, satanic lyrical matter and as a result, are alike.
-AC
This, class, is what I've come to know as "Classic Alpha Centauri." Once again, you've proven to twist my words to make me sound ignorant. The whole "Moshing, Headbanging, Hail-to-sataning" thing? It was a JOKE, pal. A JOKE. You know what was also a joke? My label as "Genre Nazi." But, it seems I've met the real thing. My hat's off to you. You see, I've tryed to keep this light. As for you, it seems that you hate me. I'm not name-calling or assuming you hate me, that's your sort of thing. It's just the impression I'm getting from you.
Now, as for Grindcore and Metalcore, just because you don't recognize them doesn't make them illigit. The majority of the metal fandom is familiar with those two, and yes Alt Metal is just for any band that NEEDS a label. You can't simply say "Well, I don't believe in Metalcore and Grindcore, so we shall not speak of them!" That's simply not how it works.
As for credibility in genres, you can copy/paste all the definitions in the world, but I've come to know these genres from years of listening and studying them. For all I know, you're knowlege in metal can be nothing more than Wikipedia. I'm not saying it's from Wikipedia, though, so please don't try to twist my words, again. Thanks.
Folk Metal? Oh, you missed one, did you? That's a shame, and it's not a genre you can "wish away" like Grindcore and Metalcore. It's actually quite defined. Folk Metal is the metal version of Folk Rock. It uses the elements of Heavy Metal, with folklore lyrics and traditional insturments of the subject. A few examples of this genre are Wuthering Heights, Touko, and Skiltron. Oh, and I forgot to mention Doom Metal in my list. Another very defined genre, that I should assume you're going to denounce. But, I'll save myself the trouble of having to describe it.
Originally posted by Bardiel13
I assume you're joking, correct?
ok hmm, lemme explain.
falloutboy is pop punk: i dont care what this band is really
hawthorne is not metal: they aren't metal
"Black metal etc ARE useless labels, there are basically the same, its all just, growly yelling vocals, and some guitar solos"
im trying to show the irony of what AC says: that grindcore n metalcore are too similar, etc. Well Same can be argued about metal, its all about the listener and/or inexperience about the (sub)genre
Metal has many different sounds that can be classified with sub genres, same goes for stuff like Hardcore/metalcore/grindcore/______core they all have aspects of hardcore with its own unique twist, just like Metal's sub genres. But unlike metal, there is no slowcore, heavycore, or deathcore/powercore...
For your average listener, they probably cannot tell the difference between grindcore and metalcore, but same can go for someone who doesn't listen to heavy metal, and death metal. Once you listen to more than one band in those sub genres, you will be able to tell the differences and uniqueness.
Originally posted by Bardock42
What genres do Radiohead, Rage Against the Machine and The Smiths fall into. (well, sub-genres)
Radiohead is probably Avant-Garde Alternative Rock (AC, I swear to God, if you try to bash me for using Avant-Garde as a label... seriosuly, I know what I'm doing)
RATM is probably a blend of Rap(core?), Funk-oriented Metal, and Hard Rock.
The Smiths, I'd say are Alternative Pop Rock.
That's at least my impression of their styles.
Originally posted by Silverstein
"Black metal etc ARE useless labels, there are basically the same, its all just, growly yelling vocals, and some guitar solos"im trying to show the irony of what AC says: that grindcore n metalcore are too similar, etc. Well Same can be argued about metal, its all about the listener and/or inexperience about the (sub)genre
Metal has many different sounds that can be classified with sub genres, same goes for stuff like Hardcore/metalcore/grindcore/______core they all have aspects of hardcore with its own unique twist, just like Metal's sub genres. But unlike metal, there is no slowcore, heavycore, or deathcore/powercore...
For your average listener, they probably cannot tell the difference between grindcore and metalcore, but same can go for someone who doesn't listen to heavy metal, and death metal. Once you listen to more than one band in those sub genres, you will be able to tell the differences and uniqueness.
Alrighty, just checking to see if we're on the same page.