The Great Genre Debate Thread!

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
It doesn't need a label, that's the problem. You think it needs one, it doesn't, you WANT to give it one. You don't need it to be called "metalcore" so you can listen to it and enjoy it do you?

The fact of the matter is, you f*cked your whole debate up with your last post. You tried foolishly to list distinctions in "metalcore" and failed, now you're jabbering on about nothing, at least you tried.

"Breakdowns are what make it different.". Haha, nice one.

-AC

I think it needs one, I want to give it one. and YOU think it doesn't need one, YOU do not want to give it one. I freakin need the name metalcore to enjoy it. If i wanted to listen to Metal i'd listen to 'Atreyu' if i wanted to listen to Metalcore i'd listen to 'Murders of rue Morgue'

i listed distinctions, the breakdowns are different line is just a line, i listed many distinctions. Go listen to metallica, then come and listen to 'Murders of rue Morgue' search that on purevolume. There is a difference. I guess metalcore cannot be explained. only experienced.

This will be my last post in this thread, for I do not wish to continue arguing with you, though it seems you want to argue with me. Don't consider this as a statement of fear towards you or that your intimidation is working. I just prefer to have more friends than enemies and to stay away from the latter.

No, you don't get it do you? If someone rips your heart out, you die. That's a fact, right? It's a fact because it cannot be disputed. That's what a fact is, you see. Anything else is simply not a fact.

If there are beliefs held as fact today that are later disproven, then they were never facts anyway. How old are you, 10? You should have learned this in school.

I don't particularly like a lot of things, but shit happens.

You do, just don't expect it to be taken seriously at all but anyone with sense.

You didn't go with the herd, you just sat on the fence. I'm semi-impressed (not really).

They are CONSIDERED emo, but they are factually not emo. Not by what emo actually is, as dictacted my musical research and history. Factually, they are also a metal band, as proven by research and insight.

So now, I bid farewell to you Alpha Centauri. Until we meet again.

Originally posted by Silverstein
I think it needs one, I want to give it one. and YOU think it doesn't need one, YOU do not want to give it one. I freakin need the name metalcore to enjoy it. If i wanted to listen to Metal i'd listen to 'Atreyu' if i wanted to listen to Metalcore i'd listen to 'Murders of rue Morgue'

It doesn't need one, that's a fact. So we come down to what I said; You want to give it one, because you're a labeller, as I said and as you denied. Point proven. Blundering, desperate scenechild.

Originally posted by Silverstein
i listed distinctions, the breakdowns are different line is just a line, i listed many distinctions. Go listen to metallica, then come and listen to 'Murders of rue Morgue' search that on purevolume. There is a difference. I guess metalcore cannot be explained. only experienced.

Stop trying to get out of it. You said that breakdowns make the difference, because you don't know what they are, or you'd not have said it. Throaty screams? Black metal had that long before "metalcore". So were Will Haven, Converge and others. Downtuned guitars? Crowbar were doing that before "metalcore", so were many others, and those aren't "metalcore" bands. They're just metal bands. You don't know what you're talking about, and I've proven it, exposed it too.

There are no factual definitions between metal and "metalcore". Why? Because "metalcore" is a label that shouldn't exist, it doesn't apply to a genre, it's just a tag that kids stick onto metal bands that don't sound like what they think metal is.

I.E: You. As I have also proven.

-AC

Originally posted by KingDubya
But, you seem to ignore the fact that one given definition of "fact" (from The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition) is "Something believed to be true or real". When people believed the world to be flat, it was a fact at that time. Now, since we know it is wrong, it is no longer a fact. Also, to disprove your opinion of me, I am 16 years old; maybe you should take a gander at somebody's profile before assuming their age, as I did and learned you are 20 years old.

The world has never, ever been flat. That is a fact, so it can't also be a fact that it once was, because that would mean it was an undeniable truth, and it's not. So it was never a fact, you idiot. Stop being so stupid.

They believed it was a fact, but it wasn't a fact. They just didn't have the means to prove it. The Earth didn't become round when it was able to be proven, it was always so. You should know this, anyone over 6 should.

Yeah, 16. Barely three years into your teens.

Originally posted by KingDubya
I never did expect you to take my opinion seriously, as you have used many degrading comments towards me which show that your opinion of me is very low.

You think it was once a fact that the Earth was flat, how do you expect to be treated?

Originally posted by KingDubya
I said that the vocals are similar to that found in songs by "emo" bands; whether those bands are actually emo or not is not my concern.

Then don't call them such, because they're not emo.

Originally posted by KingDubya
Their (Hawthorne Heights) music seems to be a bit of a mix between what is considered emo and metal, which has yet to be called a single genre, so some consider them to be of both genres, including those who regularly edit Wikipedia entries (yes, that's right, you can edit them; if you disagree with them so much, just change them).

Listen to me very carefully; They are FACTUALLY nothing to do with emo. I have proven this before, ok? They are not connected to emo in anyway. They are falsely labelled as such.

So that leaves us with the metal connection, and me closing my case.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
It doesn't need one, that's a fact. So we come down to what I said; You want to give it one, because you're a labeller, as I said and as you denied. Point proven. Blundering, desperate scenechild.

Stop trying to get out of it. You said that breakdowns make the difference, because you don't know what they are, or you'd not have said it. Throaty screams? Black metal had that long before "metalcore". So were Will Haven, Converge and others. Downtuned guitars? Crowbar were doing that before "metalcore", so were many others, and those aren't "metalcore" bands. They're just metal bands. You don't know what you're talking about, and I've proven it, exposed it too.

There are no factual definitions between metal and "metalcore". Why? Because "metalcore" is a label that shouldn't exist, it doesn't apply to a genre, it's just a tag that kids stick onto metal bands that don't sound like what they think metal is.

I.E: You. As I have also proven.

-AC

it needs one, its just the start of a neeewwww revolution, where metal is allll leeefftt behind, and your afraid so, you try and label these new metalcore bands with metal labels, YOU LABEL TOO, you are labelling Metalcore as Metal. How ironic. It's hard to not label. I have a name, you have a name, im sure you're probably one of the 'nerds' in the debate team or something.

by the way, its not scenechild; scene KID, but im not one. i don't go to many shows.

Originally posted by Silverstein
it needs one, its just the start of a neeewwww revolution, where metal is allll leeefftt behind, and your afraid so, you try and label these new metalcore bands with metal labels, YOU LABEL TOO, you are labelling Metalcore as Metal. How ironic. It's hard to not label. I have a name, you have a name, im sure you're probably one of the 'nerds' in the debate team or something.

by the way, its not scenechild; scene KID, but im not one. i don't go to many shows.

Afraid of what? None of the bands you label as "metalcore" are doing anything that other bands haven't done, and done better. I call them metal because they are, and I prove why. You said: "I want to label them as metalcore", then when you give your reasons, we find out that you know nothing.

-AC

1)you're afraid of the new metalcore revolution lol

2) just go listen to metalcore, you'll HEAR the difference.

3) you said you do not recognize them as a label = your opinion. Your Opinion has no facts. I Win, You Lose. The End, get over it.

Originally posted by Silverstein
1)you're afraid of the new metalcore revolution lol

2) just go listen to metalcore, you'll HEAR the difference.

3) you said you do not recognize them as a label = your opinion. Your Opinion has no facts. I Win, You Lose. The End, get over it.

I hear they have these breakdown things (Haha, that was a joke, you see.). I've proven that the label is unnecessary, so you're fighting a brick wall of fact. It's just something you want to use, to make yourself feel like a fan. It's what scene kids do I guess. I'll leave you to recede into your shell.

Two down, I'll deal with Bardiel whenever he shows up.

-AC

Can I toss something out there?
Do we really NEED labels for ANY type of music? What is the purpose of lableing things becides giving people a reason for people to attempt to argue with AC, and I know from experience that it never turns out well...

AC:

yeah, damn, i guess i lose. oh well. 😗

Perhaps, metalcore is like slang. Like the words, Skeet, Chicken Head, Dawg? they have a different name but mean the same thing.

or are you going to debate that too?

Bardiel, start quoting your posts.
Make me 🤣

Precisely. That's the first correct answer you've given since we've been in this debate.
My answer: 😂

You are clearly as into it as I am. Into it meaning that we both post and we both reply, right? Why do you assume I am more into it than you, because I called you an idiot? I called you one because I believe you are.
Heh... thinking an idiot of someone because they think Hawthorne Heights is hardcore instead of metal is kind of... idiotic.

How? By saying and proving that...? Go on, complete the puzzle.
As you wish, although I thought you were smart enough to finish the puzzle yourself. If one plays Jimi Hendrix's guitar skills to Britney Spears' it would be quite easy to figue out who what superior. If you want me to answer that for you, HENDRIX.

Finally you start to frustratingly weave insults in your posts, a sign of dwindling faith, for sure.
Making asinine claims to further the argument. Also a sign of dwindling faith.

I'm not trying hard to find the inaccuracies and inconsistency in your posts, it's glaring at me everytime you use your keyboard.
You know what else was glaring at you? My disclaimer on how RATM's genre was my impression and opinion. And what did you do? That's right, you jump all over me for it, still...

So what you are saying or proposing is; You feel you have the right to speak on how genres are specifically labelled despite not knowing about them, but just loving them? That's very, incredible silly of you, boy.
Bite me, you know what I said. You simply said that immersion is just loving something. But it's also experience.

You can love metal all you want, Bardiel, but the fact of the matter is that everytime you post, your words and expressions do not tell a similar tale. You say you know things, but you don't prove it, nor do you show it. I do, I have and I shall continue to. Which is why I'm known on this board for knowing my shit, you don't.
See above.

Now you're really getting desperate, telling me what I have and haven't listened to. Tsk tsk, you disappoint me, I expected better than this.
It doesn't matter if the majority agree with you or not, man. What part about that are you not getting? The majority says that Britney Spears is better than Metallica, is it truer? No, so stop talking from sheer desperation and start making sense. Everything you post exposes you for what you are; A know nothing scenester.
What's this, now? Of course I can't prove that Britney Spears is better than Metallica! Neither can you! You know why? It's simply about opinion and taste. And everything you post also exposes you for what you are; a poor debator. You sidestep your way past having to back yourself up by trying to pound away at one's ego with off topic teasing. It seems like either you know you're wrong or you're so drunk off your own ego that admitting defeat is not an option.

And now, I'm through with you dodging. I'm going to get to the point.
Hawthorne Heights is not metal because:
1) Simply not heavy enough. Semi-heavy, maybe, but not metal-requirement. Most metal bands tend to tune down their guitars to a heavier pitch and use different distortion than what they use. The distortion used by Hawthorn Heights is frequently used by *gasp* hardcore bands! 😱
2) Find a 1-2 minute part in a Hawthorne Heights song with no vocals, just insturmental. Then pick a band from the same genre you think Hawthorne Heights are (please tell me, all this time you've faild to mention that). Compare.
3) This may not be valid to you, I know, but it's just saying... Hawthorne Heights are not affiliated with metal. They have never performed at a metal festival (maybe hardcore & metal festival, but you'll never see these guys at WOA)

And now, why you're making a fool of yourself. You see, I'm not a vague as you. 🙂
1) You honestly assumed I thought Slayer and Amon Amarth sounded alike.
2) You resorted to petty name-calling early on in the debate, which portrays a poor image of your personality.
3) After my disclaimers on Bardocks request, you still bashed me, trying to get a cheap shot. Low.

Originally posted by Bardiel13
Heh... thinking an idiot of someone because they think Hawthorne Heights is hardcore instead of metal is kind of... idiotic.

It's not even that, it's the general nature of your posts.

Originally posted by Bardiel13
As you wish, although I thought you were smart enough to finish the puzzle yourself. If one plays Jimi Hendrix's guitar skills to Britney Spears' it would be quite easy to figue out who what superior. If you want me to answer that for you, HENDRIX.

I know the answer, I wanted you to answer it to prove my point, but you still got it wrong.

We can prove it by proving the factually better guitar technician. Just as we can prove who is factually metal and who isn't, based on what they play and how.

Originally posted by Bardiel13
Making asinine claims to further the argument. Also a sign of dwindling faith.

You threw the contradictory insult, not me. I could go on about music all day.

Originally posted by Bardiel13
You know what else was glaring at you? My disclaimer on how RATM's genre was my impression and opinion. And what did you do? That's right, you jump all over me for it, still...

The very fact that you even considered them anything close to "rapcore", or considered rapcore an actual genre was enough. Add to this, the fact that you didn't even know what "'core" meant, or should be attached to.

Originally posted by Bardiel13
Bite me, you know what I said. You simply said that immersion is just loving something. But it's also experience.

Experience in what? Loving something enough to be exposed to it. That's what I keep saying. You have "experience" in metal because you allegedly listen to it a lot due to loving it. Why try to twist it around?

Originally posted by Bardiel13
See above.

Where's the relevance? Same applies.

Originally posted by Bardiel13
What's this, now? Of course I can't prove that Britney Spears is better than Metallica! Neither can you! You know why? It's simply about opinion and taste. And everything you post also exposes you for what you are; a poor debator. You sidestep your way past having to back yourself up by trying to pound away at one's ego with off topic teasing. It seems like either you know you're wrong or you're so drunk off your own ego that admitting defeat is not an option.

Precisely, that's exactly the answer I wanted. So therefore, it doesn't ever matter how many people are against you, majority or not, does it? No.

That said, someone who likes certain kinds of music will always have a more credible opinion (still an opinion) than those who like Britney Spears.

I'd admit defeat if it ever happened, but look at your posts. When was the last time you posted something on topic? Something to counter my arguments? You can't.

Originally posted by Bardiel13
And now, I'm through with you dodging. I'm going to get to the point.
Hawthorne Heights is not metal because:

1) Simply not heavy enough. Semi-heavy, maybe, but not metal-requirement. Most metal bands tend to tune down their guitars to a heavier pitch and use different distortion than what they use. The distortion used by Hawthorn Heights is frequently used by *gasp* hardcore bands! 😱

There is no heavy requirement to be metal, you fool. Metallica's later albums are metal albums, but they're nowhere near as heavy as Master of Puppets or ...And Justice for All, so what makes you think that it can't be metal if it's not ridiculously heavy? Oh yes, the fact that you don't have a clue what you're on about.

There is no specific distortion used that makes a different genre, that's just sheer desperation.

Originally posted by Bardiel13
2) Find a 1-2 minute part in a Hawthorne Heights song with no vocals, just insturmental. Then pick a band from the same genre you think Hawthorne Heights are ([b]please tell me, all this time you've faild to mention that). Compare.[/b]

What are you getting at? They're not metal because they don't have a lot of moments where they are instrumental without vocals? Possibly the silliest argument I've heard. Converge are a metal band, hardly any instrumentals there, Norma Jean likewise. You are struggling so hard to define this made-up genre that you're saying things that make you look worse.

Originally posted by Bardiel13
3) This may not be valid to you, I know, but it's just saying... Hawthorne Heights are not affiliated with metal. They have never performed at a metal festival (maybe hardcore & metal festival, but you'll never see these guys at WOA)

That is the worst paragraph you have posted yet. First of all you make the factually incorrect claim of: "They have never performed at a metal festival...", then upon realising the stupidity of your claim, change it to: "(Maybe a hardcore & metal festival, but you'll never see these guys performing at WOA.)". They performed at the Kerrang! (mostly a metal magazine) XXV Anniversary tour with Bullet for My Valentine and Aiden, two metal bands. It was touted as a metal tour and contained metal bands.

Originally posted by Bardiel13
And now, why you're making a fool of yourself. You see, I'm not a vague as you. 🙂

See above, remember?

Originally posted by Bardiel13
1) You honestly assumed I thought Slayer and Amon Amarth sounded alike.

Because you put it across as such, and are now changing your tune. If you don't think they sound alike, then I was wrong. It wasn't exactly a massive assumption, especially considering you listed traits and then mentioned the two bands together, without failing to specify any difference that you believed to exist. Now who's vague? You.

Originally posted by Bardiel13
2) You resorted to petty name-calling early on in the debate, which portrays a poor image of your personality.

It doesn't portray anything other than my opinion of you vis-a-vis this debate.

Originally posted by Bardiel13
3) After my disclaimers on Bardocks request, you still bashed me, trying to get a cheap shot. Low.

I didn't bash you, I made a single comment about you regarding your music knowledge or lack thereof.

-AC

It's not even that, it's the general nature of your posts.
Then, tell me in detail the nature of my posts. I don't see me denouncing every genre I've never head of.

I know the answer, I wanted you to answer it to prove my point, but you still got it wrong.
We can prove it by proving the factually better guitar technician. Just as we can prove who is factually metal and who isn't, based on what they play and how.
That's what I said. If you compare the two, it's quite easy to see who's better. Now, how is talent relevant with genre styles?

You threw the contradictory insult, not me. I could go on about music all day.
A contradicory insult, you say? Where is it?

The very fact that you even considered them anything close to "rapcore", or considered rapcore an actual genre was enough. Add to this, the fact that you didn't even know what "'core" meant, or should be attached to.
Once again, you go by "If I haven't heard of it, it doesn't exist!" Do you honestly think you know EVERY genre of music? That it's possible that there are legit, defined genres that you don't know about?

Experience in what? Loving something enough to be exposed to it. That's what I keep saying. You have "experience" in metal because you allegedly listen to it a lot due to loving it. Why try to twist it around?
And that's what I keep saying- leave it at that.

Precisely, that's exactly the answer I wanted. So therefore, it doesn't ever matter how many people are against you, majority or not, does it? No.
That said, someone who likes certain kinds of music will always have a more credible opinion (still an opinion) than those who like Britney Spears.
You're trying to prove that majority doesn't mean it's right? Well, why are you using an example where majority wouldn't matter to begin with?

I'd admit defeat if it ever happened, but look at your posts. When was the last time you posted something on topic? Something to counter my arguments? You can't.
I just did post something on topic 😂 And the reason why it's getting hard to post on topic, is beacuse you're hell-bent on keeping me busy by having to respond to your empty criticisms. If you want to post of topic, then please stop this and let's make it civil. Instead of shouting "YOU'RE WRONG WRONG WROOONNGG!!" make some POINTS on the topic instead of claiming I know nothing.

There is no heavy requirement to be metal, you fool. Metallica's later albums are metal albums, but they're nowhere near as heavy as Master of Puppets or ...And Justice for All, so what makes you think that it can't be metal if it's not ridiculously heavy? Oh yes, the fact that you don't have a clue what you're on about.
Let's not get into this, because then we'd have an argument if later Metallica is really Hard Rock or Metal. Save it for another day.

There is no specific distortion used that makes a different genre, that's just sheer desperation.
You're not one to talk about desperation, He-Who-Does-Nothing-But-Criticise. And, it's not a SPECIFIC distortion, that'd be kind of lame. It's a certain STYLE of distortion.

What are you getting at? They're not metal because they don't have a lot of moments where they are instrumental without vocals? Possibly the silliest argument I've heard. Converge are a metal band, hardly any instrumentals there, Norma Jean likewise. You are struggling so hard to define this made-up genre that you're saying things that make you look worse.
Why must you do this? Are you really that dense? I meant for you to compare the music itself, since the vocals are in many cases similar. You shouldn't call me desperate, because you're the one trying to put my sentences in the context you want, when it's not what what I'm saying at all!

That is the worst paragraph you have posted yet. First of all you make the factually incorrect claim of: "They have never performed at a metal festival...", then upon realising the stupidity of your claim, change it to: "(Maybe a hardcore & metal festival, but you'll never see these guys performing at WOA.)". They performed at the Kerrang! (mostly a metal magazine) XXV Anniversary tour with Bullet for My Valentine and Aiden, two metal bands. It was touted as a metal tour and contained metal bands.
Like I said: hardcore and metal bands often tour together. Bullet for my Valentine and Aiden are metalcore. Metalcore bands tour with hardcore bands all the time. It's not just the genre, it's a fanbase.

See above, remember?
What, you can't simply look up to the previous paragraph? I'd say that's a lot less vague than calling me stupid with "All my posts" or answering a question with "read my other (as in dozens) posts."

Because you put it across as such, and are now changing your tune. If you don't think they sound alike, then I was wrong. It wasn't exactly a massive assumption, especially considering you listed traits and then mentioned the two bands together, without failing to specify any difference that you believed to exist. Now who's vague? You.
What trades did I list that made them sound alike? You said that Hawthorne Heights is metal. Slayer and Amon Amarth are metal, yes? Alright, then. If you reread my post (like you've had to do how many times?), you'll notice I make no mention about specific genres.

It doesn't portray anything other than my opinion of you vis-a-vis this debate.
Of course, you won't admit it, but you saying I'm an idiot and getting all fired up because you think I got the genre wrong to a band neither of us even like makes you look preeeetty immature. 😕

I didn't bash you, I made a single comment about you regarding your music knowledge or lack thereof.
Even thought I stated TWICE that the bands he requested weren't in my domain (I did this to keep you off my back, but you sure love to get on my nerves), yet you tried to use that post against me, as if I said I knew everything about music and was 100% sure of their genres.

Originally posted by Bardiel13
Then, tell me in detail the nature of my posts. I don't see me denouncing every genre I've never head of.

Neither do I, but you just make them up or adhere to them, then realise you don't even know how to apply them.

Originally posted by Bardiel13
That's what I said. If you compare the two, it's quite easy to see who's better. Now, how is talent relevant with genre styles?

It wasn't exclusively, my point was how when comparing things or looking at genres or musical subjects alone, we can judge by fact if there is a specific criteria. Hawthorne Heights are a metal band, and this has been proven, they were also on an exclusively metal tour.

Originally posted by Bardiel13
A contradicory insult, you say? Where is it?

Do you have the memory span of a goldfish or something? I'm not going to give you more ways to dodge, so I'm going to get to the on-topic parts, later I will PM you said insult.

Originally posted by Bardiel13
Once again, you go by "If I haven't heard of it, it doesn't exist!" Do you honestly think you know EVERY genre of music? That it's possible that there are legit, defined genres that you don't know about?

No, I do not. I've heard of "metalcore", I've heard of "grindcore". I recognise that the music those labels are attached to, exists. What part of that do you not grasp? My problem is with the labels, literally. Not the music, the labels, and those who use them.

I'm not saying the music you label as rapcore (it's also called hip hop, not rap) doesn't exist, I'm saying the label is stupid and inapplicable. Like when you applied it to Rage, thus erasing any credibility you had.

Furthermore, didn't know "Nintendocore" had been thought up until Sceneverstein brought it up, and why should I? It's pathetic, it's non-applicable and there is absolutely no reason for it. I knew that kind of music existed, I was unware of the label, and I couldn't care less. I don't need to know that the word "Nintendocore" exists.

Originally posted by Bardiel13
And that's what I keep saying- leave it at that.

So then we come back the my original point: You claim you've studied metal just because you love it, which you denied, only to then agree with.

Originally posted by Bardiel13
You're trying to prove that majority doesn't mean it's right? Well, why are you using an example where majority wouldn't matter to begin with?

Because you are the one sitting there saying that the majority is against me, as if it's somehow reinforcing your claim. A majority of morons doesn't mean a thing.

Originally posted by Bardiel13
And the reason why it's getting hard to post on topic, is beacuse you're hell-bent on keeping me busy by having to respond to your empty criticisms.

Having to? I don't have control over you, you're responsible for yourself, buddy. You can't help but reply, and it just leaves you looking sillier. Don't reply to that which you dislike then, but you know you fill your posts up because when it comes down to it, I'm proving you wrong at every turn.

Originally posted by Bardiel13
If you want to post of topic, then please stop this and let's make it civil. Instead of shouting "YOU'RE WRONG WRONG WROOONNGG!!" make some POINTS on the topic instead of claiming I know nothing.

You don't, though. What do you want, respect? Admiration? You're posting on here with all the inconsistency and illogical argument of a 6 year old.

Originally posted by Bardiel13
Let's not get into this, because then we'd have an argument if later Metallica is really Hard Rock or Metal. Save it for another day.

They're not called Hardrockica, are they? They're called Metallica because they are a metal band, world renowned and extremely famous for it. To deny that Metallica are a metal, to even question that, is despicable.

Point proven, I understand why you wouldn't want to get into it.

Originally posted by Bardiel13
You're not one to talk about desperation, He-Who-Does-Nothing-But-Criticise. And, it's not a SPECIFIC distortion, that'd be kind of lame. It's a certain STYLE of distortion.

We're in a debate, criticising is what happens. If you call Rage Against the Machine rapcore, you deserve critique. Deal with it.

It's not a certain style of distortion, you're making things up again. Hawthorne Heights and many others are simply metal bands, that's all they are. You have tried to say it relies on distortion; Bull. You've tried saying that it's not as heavy as a requirement; Bull, as I proved with the Metallica comparison, and you backed out. So what's left for you?

Originally posted by Bardiel13
Why must you do this? Are you really that dense? I meant for you to compare the music itself, since the vocals are in many cases similar. You shouldn't call me desperate, because you're the one trying to put my sentences in the context you want, when it's not what what I'm saying at all!

I know what the music sounds like, Bardiel. Regardless of whether it sounds like other metal bands or not, it's metal music. You aren't showing anything beyond "Yeah, the distortion style is different.". I've gave my evidence, you provide nothing.

Originally posted by Bardiel13
Like I said: hardcore and metal bands often tour together. Bullet for my Valentine and Aiden are metalcore. Metalcore bands tour with hardcore bands all the time. It's not just the genre, it's a fanbase.

So you are now claiming you know more about metal than the journalists for a magazine that has been going since you were in pampers? Try it, please.

Bullet for My Valentine and Aiden are metal bands, they call themselves metal bands, they are known by magazines, music press and fans alike as metal bands. It was a metal band tour and Hawthorne Heights were a part of it, also touted as a metal band. Why? Because they are a metal band.

Fanbase? Who cares about a fanbase? I'm talking about the music. The music isn't called "metalcore" because the fans call themselves by that name. That's like calling Down stoner rock because their fans like to get stoned a lot, it's stupid.

Originally posted by Bardiel13
What, you can't simply look up to the previous paragraph? I'd say that's a lot less vague than calling me stupid with "All my posts" or answering a question with "read my other (as in dozens) posts."

I specifically directed you to what I said previously, you are getting desperate, man.

Originally posted by Bardiel13
What trades did I list that made them sound alike? You said that Hawthorne Heights is metal. Slayer and Amon Amarth are metal, yes? Alright, then. If you reread my post (like you've had to do how many times?), you'll notice I make no mention about specific genres.

I said you listed traits and then mentioned the two bands together, "Like Slayer and Amon Amarth.". It was a fair assumption.

I've never actually re-read your posts, because once is enough. You re-directing me doesn't make your claim any more true.

Originally posted by Bardiel13
Of course, you won't admit it, but you saying I'm an idiot and getting all fired up because you think I got the genre wrong to a band neither of us even like makes you look preeeetty immature. 😕

I'm not getting all fired up, that's just a tactic people use to make it seem like they're getting the best of their opponent, when infact they aren't. Second, what do you mean I won't admit it? I think you're an idiot when it comes to music, because that's all I know of you.

Originally posted by Bardiel13
Even thought I stated TWICE that the bands he requested weren't in my domain (I did this to keep you off my back, but you sure love to get on my nerves), yet you tried to use that post against me, as if I said I knew everything about music and was 100% sure of their genres.

It's not my fault you're actually getting nervy and feeling like you have to reply. If you don't have a clue, then don't go around labelling bands, simple solution isn't it?

If you don't know how to classify a band, then don't do it. It's better than attempting it and getting it wrong.

So now's the time where you choose to reply to the on-topic parts, or all of it. I'm not forcing you, so don't act like I am.

-AC

LOL @ THE LENGTH OF THAT SHIT!!!

AC YOU WILD'N SON!

no beef

Do you. . .

Neither do I, but you just make them up or adhere to them, then realise you don't even know how to apply them.
Fine, then. You refuse to acknowledge them. Metalcore, Grindcore, and Folk Metal are all distinct, defined, recognized genres. I'm not too sure about Nintendocore.
Metalcore- The bridge between metal and hardcore. With metal-styled distortion and harsh vocals, these band play a blend of hardcore breakdowns and catchy meldoy with heavy metal solos.
Grindcore- Notorious for it's brutality, grindcore uses excessive down-tuning, rapid beatblasts, and often indecypherable vocals with a persistant thrashing sound.
Folk Metal- Folk Metal is the metal version of Folk Rock. It uses the elements of Heavy Metal, with folklore lyrics and traditional insturments of the subject.
You really can't put the bands of these genres anywhere else.

It wasn't exclusively, my point was how when comparing things or looking at genres or musical subjects alone, we can judge by fact if there is a specific criteria. Hawthorne Heights are a metal band, and this has been proven, they were also on an exclusively metal tour.
I already told you. There are few "pure metal" tours out there. Metal and hardcore go into the same fandom. And yes, metal has a certain criteria- and Hawthorne Heights doesn't follow it.

Do you have the memory span of a goldfish or something? I'm not going to give you more ways to dodge, so I'm going to get to the on-topic parts, later I will PM you said insult.
Please do. 🙂

No, I do not. I've heard of "metalcore", I've heard of "grindcore". I recognise that the music those labels are attached to, exists. What part of that do you not grasp? My problem is with the labels, literally. Not the music, the labels, and those who use them.
Look up at the first paragraph and you'll have your answer.

I'm not saying the music you label as rapcore (it's also called hip hop, not rap) doesn't exist, I'm saying the label is stupid and inapplicable. Like when you applied it to Rage, thus erasing any credibility you had.
Dear God, you're still using it? I told you, I wasn't credible in that area how many times now? And I didn't say RATM was JUST rapcore, I simply said I got the impression that it had some influences of it.

Furthermore, didn't know "Nintendocore" had been thought up until Sceneverstein brought it up, and why should I? It's pathetic, it's non-applicable and there is absolutely no reason for it. I knew that kind of music existed, I was unware of the label, and I couldn't care less. I don't need to know that the word "Nintendocore" exists.
Neither do I. Moving on.

So then we come back the my original point: You claim you've studied metal just because you love it, which you denied, only to then agree with.
Don't put words in my mouth. I never denied loving metal. You were making it seem like I just loved metal, but knew nothing about it. Drop it, man, you're not getting anywhere 😐

Because you are the one sitting there saying that the majority is against me, as if it's somehow reinforcing your claim. A majority of morons doesn't mean a thing.
By this, you're saying you know more about music than the entire majority of people, correct?

Having to? I don't have control over you, you're responsible for yourself, buddy. You can't help but reply, and it just leaves you looking sillier. Don't reply to that which you dislike then, but you know you fill your posts up because when it comes down to it, I'm proving you wrong at every turn.
And I'm proving you wrong right back, which then you try to prove me wrong, rinse, and repeat.

You don't, though. What do you want, respect? Admiration? You're posting on here with all the inconsistency and illogical argument of a 6 year old.
Look who's talking. You think taking obvious sarcasm makes you look smart? 😂 No, seriously, do you? If I look silly in my argument, look look no better.

They're not called Hardrockica, are they? They're called Metallica because they are a metal band, world renowned and extremely famous for it. To deny that Metallica are a metal, to even question that, is despicable.
Point proven, I understand why you wouldn't want to get into it.
Stop getting ahead of youself. I never said Metallica were Hard Rock and not Metal. Hardrockica... funny, though.

We're in a debate, criticising is what happens. If you call Rage Against the Machine rapcore, you deserve critique. Deal with it.
I didn't call them rapcore. I said I got the impression that they had an element of rap or rapcore in their style. You shouldn't reply to this any further, because the more you tell me I'm an idiot for "calling RATM rapcore", the more of an imbecile you look.

It's not a certain style of distortion, you're making things up again. Hawthorne Heights and many others are simply metal bands, that's all they are. You have tried to say it relies on distortion; Bull. You've tried saying that it's not as heavy as a requirement; Bull, as I proved with the Metallica comparison, and you backed out. So what's left for you?
I've stated reasons why they are metal and you call it bull. Now it's your turn. Please be civil and list the elements of Hawthorne Height's music that makes them metal. Also state what genre they fit into.
And I didn't back out because I thought I'd lose. I just wanted to avoid another argument.

I know what the music sounds like, Bardiel. Regardless of whether it sounds like other metal bands or not, it's metal music. You aren't showing anything beyond "Yeah, the distortion style is different.". I've gave my evidence, you provide nothing.
What evidence did you give?! All you said was "They performed at a metal tour, thus they are totally metal." Not too solid, pal...

So you are now claiming you know more about metal than the journalists for a magazine that has been going since you were in pampers? Try it, please.
Once again, you get ahead of yourself. Seriously, how many times are you going to put words in my mouth? I never said they were wrong. I even stated (and you acknowledged) that hardcore and metal go together, so metal magazines also like to do articles about hardcore bands metal fans seem to be liking. They usually call them hardcore as well.

Bullet for My Valentine and Aiden are metal bands, they call themselves metal bands, they are known by magazines, music press and fans alike as metal bands. It was a metal band tour and Hawthorne Heights were a part of it, also touted as a metal band. Why? Because they are a metal band.
Fanbase? Who cares about a fanbase? I'm talking about the music. The music isn't called "metalcore" because the fans call themselves by that name. That's like calling Down stoner rock because their fans like to get stoned a lot, it's stupid.
Wait, wait, wait! Those paragraphs completly contradict each other! "Hawthorne Heights played with metal bands and people call them metal, so that's proof enough that they're metal" is the point of the first one and the next paragraph says that just because people say it's metalcore doesn't make it so. Explain this hypocrisy, AC!

I specifically directed you to what I said previously, you are getting desperate, man.
As are you, AC 😉

I said you listed traits and then mentioned the two bands together, "Like Slayer and Amon Amarth.". It was a fair assumption.
What traits did I mention, besides the "headbanging, hail-to-sataing" thing? That was a joke, dude and you know it.

I've never actually re-read your posts, because once is enough. You re-directing me doesn't make your claim any more true.
Once is enough? Well this argument has shown you've had more than your share of misunderstanding or misreading my posts. Hell, you've even admitted it on some occasions.

I'm not getting all fired up, that's just a tactic people use to make it seem like they're getting the best of their opponent, when infact they aren't. Second, what do you mean I won't admit it? I think you're an idiot when it comes to music, because that's all I know of you.
I have to spell out and re-explain all of my sentences and even point out obvious sarcasm for you, yet you call me an idiot and expect me to take it as "Oh, he only think's I'm an idiot at music, not an idiot in general." BS, my friend.
Acting fired up is a tactic one uses to mask their insecurity? I do believe that means you think you're wrong. 😂

It's not my fault you're actually getting nervy and feeling like you have to reply. If you don't have a clue, then don't go around labelling bands, simple solution isn't it?
If you don't know how to classify a band, then don't do it. It's better than attempting it and getting it wrong.
I'm not going around labeling bands. I know bands and their labels (at least in the metal category). I'm not tossing things around, saying Garth Brooks is Nintendocore.

So now's the time where you choose to reply to the on-topic parts, or all of it. I'm not forcing you, so don't act like I am.
Alright, I'll reply just to get things worked out. Afterward, it's a war of facts and research. No flames, no name-calling, no taking sarcasm literally, and for the love of GOD! no getting ahead of yourself!
Sound good?

Originally posted by Tptmanno1
Can I toss something out there?
Do we really NEED labels for ANY type of music? What is the purpose of lableing things becides giving people a reason for people to attempt to argue with AC, and I know from experience that it never turns out well...

feel free to disect absolutely every facet of the music you listen to so you can describe it, me, ill just use a proper genre title.

Originally posted by Bardiel13
So then we come back the my original point: You claim you've studied metal just because you love it, which you denied, only to then agree with.
Don't put words in my mouth. I never denied loving metal. You were making it seem like I just loved metal, but knew nothing about it. Drop it, man, you're not getting anywhere 😐
[/B]

Originally posted by Bardiel13
[b]Because you are the one sitting there saying that the majority is against me, as if it's somehow reinforcing your claim. A majority of morons doesn't mean a thing.
By this, you're saying you know more about music than the entire majority of people, correct?

[/B]

You say he's putting words in your mouth. I see you doing the exact same thing.

Originally posted by ~Da Rev~
You say he's putting words in your mouth. I see you doing the exact same thing.

Originally posted by Bardiel13
Fine, then. You refuse to acknowledge them. Metalcore, Grindcore, and Folk Metal are all distinct, defined, recognized genres. I'm not too sure about Nintendocore.
Metalcore- The bridge between metal and hardcore. With metal-styled distortion and harsh vocals, these band play a blend of hardcore breakdowns and catchy meldoy with heavy metal solos.

Hardcore breakdowns? There's only one definition of the musical term "Breakdown", son. It applies to any genre, there are no specific kinds of breakdown exclusive to "metalcore", as I proved to Silverstein.

You confuse the issue once more. Recognised by who? Not by me. It doesn't matter to me if everyone on MySpace recognises the word (not the music) "Metalcore", I think it's stupid and pretentious. It's metal, simply. You are just saying "It combines this, this and this.", without actually thinking if it makes sense.

Converge have the harshest vocals in music, possibly. They use distortion, they use breakdowns. Are they metalcore? No, they're a metal band.

Originally posted by Bardiel13
Grindcore- Notorious for it's brutality, grindcore uses excessive down-tuning, rapid beatblasts, and often indecypherable vocals with a persistant thrashing sound.

Isis are like that, but Aaron Turner notably hates the term "Grindcore". Infact, he owns Hydrahead records, a label that pioneered the style you are referring to. They all call themselves metal bands, no "grind" in there.

Again, I suggest research.

Originally posted by Bardiel13
Folk Metal is the metal version of Folk Rock. It uses the elements of Heavy Metal, with folklore lyrics and traditional insturments of the subject.

Traditional instruments of the subject? Subject meaning, what? Folk? The acoustic guitar is the traditional instrument there, Opeth use a lot of acoustic guitar, and a lot of heavy metal too. Folk Metal? No.

Originally posted by Bardiel13
You really can't put the bands of these genres anywhere else.

The bands themselves do, so who are you to argue with them over the music they create? I'd love to see you walk up to Aaron Turner and say "Hey man, you are a grindcore band!". He's laugh in your face.

Originally posted by Bardiel13
I already told you. There are few "pure metal" tours out there. Metal and hardcore go into the same fandom. And yes, metal has a certain criteria- and Hawthorne Heights doesn't follow it.

They do, by fact, but you're going to continually avoid that, so I'll move on to pressing matters.

They were on a purely metal tour, touted by a leading metal magazine as a metal tour, by the bands themselves. Who are you to tell them what isn't metal?

Originally posted by Bardiel13
Dear God, you're still using it? I told you, I wasn't credible in that area how many times now? And I didn't say RATM was JUST rapcore, I simply said I got the impression that it had some influences of it.

As long as you continue to assume you have the right to be placing labels, I will raise the fact that you attached "rapcore" to Rage, because you personally gained that impression, showing how much perception you lack.

Originally posted by Bardiel13
Don't put words in my mouth. I never denied loving metal. You were making it seem like I just loved metal, but knew nothing about it. Drop it, man, you're not getting anywhere 😐

You are the one who said it, though. I said it to you simply, you said "No what I mean is etc...", tried overcomplicating it. To which I replied by simplifying it again, and you continued to complicate it.

You claim that you have experience because you have experienced metal. How have you experienced it? Immersion. What's immersion? Listening to it a lot. Which was exactly what I said.

Originally posted by Bardiel13
By this, you're saying you know more about music than the entire majority of people, correct?

No, it doesn't. It means numbers mean nothing, essentially. 10,000 wrong or incorrect opinions Vs 1 correct one doesn't make them any more right.

Originally posted by Bardiel13
And I'm proving you wrong right back, which then you try to prove me wrong, rinse, and repeat.

You're only replying because you've come too far to back out. I've got facts and knowledge on my side, you don't. The more you debate, the worse you look.

Nobody on this site questions my knowledge or credibility, nor will they, as a result of this. You will be known as the guy who simply got whooped by AC.

Originally posted by Bardiel13
Look who's talking. You think taking obvious sarcasm makes you look smart? 😂 No, seriously, do you? If I look silly in my argument, look look no better.

You just said the same thing back to me, at least be original/

Originally posted by Bardiel13
Stop getting ahead of youself. I never said Metallica were Hard Rock and not Metal. Hardrockica... funny, though.

You said it could be argued or that a discussion would ensue, how? They're undeniably a metal band. What's there to discuss? You are the one who mentioned them being either hard rock or metal.

Originally posted by Bardiel13
I didn't call them rapcore. I said I got the impression that they had an element of rap or rapcore in their style. You shouldn't reply to this any further, because the more you tell me I'm an idiot for "calling RATM rapcore", the more of an imbecile you look.

Firstly, stop calling it rap, it's hip hop. Do you call rock, sing? No, or maybe you do.

Secondly, rap...core? What is this "rapcore"? Metal with hip hop influence? If that's the case, then that's what you call it; Metal with hip hop influence. By calling a band "rapcore" or using that term, you are not only defacing one genre, but two.

-AC