What if Batman had taken the Super Soldier Serum? Can he beat Captain America now?

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
I know a whole bunch of fighting styles and I've amalgamated them into my own unique fighting style too. Flail arms wildly. Sure it doesn't actually look like I know a bunch of fighting styles. But it's really effective. Really.

"Bruce Wayne vs. Steve Rogers - Steve 8-9/10"

Based on? 🤨

Thats really cute. Doesn't change the fact that Batman won't have a database to pull from when he's fighting Captain America

Originally posted by Soljer
Haha, though I disagree with your standpoint in this particular thread, I HAVE to agree with you on this point. Batman is a MAGNIFICENT fighter, he knows how to win a fight. He is one of the best fighters in DC, for sure. (Excluding Karate kid -_-).

He has beaten Lady Shiva, Cassie, Richard Dragon. Jesus, I'm having trouble THINKING of a better fighter than him right this second, :-P.

Of course he's beat all of them, 'cept Jesus I don't think they've fought 😄 . He's only won cause he's Batman though, not cause he's better. Some of those wins he's gotten weren't even strictly h2h and he certainly still had the protection of his suit. Thats not a factor here

First, that joke was already done 😉. Second, I had a period there, damnit!

Damn you people! Notice punctuation! :-P.

Moving on, though. I believe that Batman beat on Shiva at least once without his suit. He came to a draw with her again, without his suit.

And with Batgirl(Cass), they both have the advantage of a Batsuit, so I don't think your argument holds much water.

Regardless, I still want someone more knowledgable than me to point out better fighters in DC (Minus karate kid, the walking plot device.)

Originally posted by Soljer
First, that joke was already done 😉. Second, I had a period there, damnit!

Damn you people! Notice punctuation! :-P.

Moving on, though. I believe that Batman beat on Shiva at least once without his suit. He came to a draw with her again, without his suit.

And with Batgirl(Cass), they both have the advantage of a Batsuit, so I don't think your argument holds much water.

Regardless, I still want someone more knowledgable than me to point out better fighters in DC (Minus karate kid, the walking plot device.)

Other than Shiva, Richard and Cass I think Batman is tops. I guess you could agrue Conner Hawke is on the same level since he fought Shiva to a standstill. There is also Drakon who I don't think ever fought Batman but was taking Conner to the cleaners even though Conner stalemated Shiva. Cain is also another one as well as Deathstroke (though I think its his enhanced abilities more than anything that lets him beat Bats). Ollie may also be close to Bats level as he was schooling DS in the latest Green Arrow

Originally posted by marvelprince
Of course he's beat all of them, 'cept Jesus I don't think they've fought 😄 . He's only won cause he's Batman though, not cause he's better. Some of those wins he's gotten weren't even strictly h2h and he certainly still had the protection of his suit. Thats not a factor here

He beat them cause he's Batman? 🤨

You know, people can go by cliche and say that Lady Shiva>Batman; however if you look at actual COMIC BOOK FIGHTS between the two, you will notice that he is SLIGHTLY her superior.

Same goes with Cass. When they sparred, people can't seem to get over the fact that she made him bleed internally. Well, if you notice that when they fought, Batman was fighting her with only one arm for the most part. Not only that, he used a move on her that made her go wide-eyed and hurt. Batman and Cassie are pretty much equals.

Richard Dragon and Batman stalematted when they fought. PERIOD.

Batman was also beating Bronze Tiger before his guards tranqed him.

So, I think people need to reevaluate Batman's position in the DC's ranking system. 😉

Originally posted by batdude123
He beat them cause he's Batman? 🤨

You know, people can go by cliche and say that Lady Shiva>Batman; however if you look at actual COMIC BOOK FIGHTS between the two, you will notice that he is SLIGHTLY her superior.

Same goes with Cass. When they sparred, people can't seem to get over the fact that she made him bleed internally. Well, if you notice that when they fought, Batman was fighting her with only one arm for the most part. Not only that, he used a move on her that made her go wide-eyed and hurt. Batman and Cassie are pretty much equals.

Richard Dragon and Batman stalematted when they fought. PERIOD.

Batman was also beating Bronze Tiger before his guards tranqed him.

So, I think people need to reevaluate Batman's position in the DC's ranking system. 😉

Yes, he beat them cause he's Batman. DC is not going to let one of its biggest cash-cows lose consistently. Even though Shiva and Cass were clearly introduced as Batman's equals, at fact that he has admitted to more than once, he's still gonna beat them at some point simply because he's Batman and they can't have him losing. They don't even try and make it make sense by having him learn a new skill or something, it just happens. When they're first introduced its like omg I can't beat this person but when we see them again he just up and beats them. Can you honestly tell me you understand that logic?

How about Connor and Drakon, then? Not out of debate, out of curiosity.

What is your DC, martial artists-ranking?

Originally posted by marvelprince
Yes, he beat them cause he's Batman. DC is not going to let one of its biggest cash-cows lose consistently. Even though Shiva and Cass were clearly introduced as Batman's equals, at fact that he has admitted to more than once, he's still gonna beat them at some point simply because he's Batman and they can't have him losing. They don't even try and make it make sense by having him learn a new skill or something, it just happens. When they're first introduced its like omg I can't beat this person but when we see them again he just up and beats them. Can you honestly tell me you understand that logic?

No, actually it doesn't make sense that Cassie would beat Batman at all. Cassie doesn't even have the experience that Bruce does. Bruce's experience and understanding of how to end a fight trumps Cassie I'm afraid. Not to mention that Bruce was her mentor since 1999, so he's superior to her. Sparring sessions would agree with me. And sorry but your logic is flawed. Just because you think that he wins because he's "Batman" doesn't make it so. Canon comics PROOVE that Batman is at least Cassie and Shiva's equals. And forget about what a person SAYS. That is voided by actual FEATS.

Originally posted by Soljer
How about Connor and Drakon, then? Not out of debate, out of curiosity.

What is your DC, martial artists-ranking?

Drakon is an anamoly. He comes out of nowhere and kicks Connor's ass badly. I don't even consider him in DC's top dogs because he's been shown once.

IMO:

1. Karate Kid
2. Batman 1 Million
3. Batman/Batgirl/Lady Shiva/Richard Dragon
4. Bronze Tiger
5. Connor
6. Promethius
7. Ra's Al Guhl
etc.

Originally posted by batdude123
No, actually it doesn't make sense that Cassie would beat Batman at all. Cassie doesn't even have the experience that Bruce does. Bruce's experience and understanding of how to end a fight trumps Cassie I'm afraid. Not to mention that Bruce was her mentor since 1999, so he's superior to her. Sparring sessions would agree with me. And sorry but your logic is flawed. Just because you think that he wins because he's "Batman" doesn't make it so. Canon comics PROOVE that Batman is at least Cassie and Shiva's equals. And forget about what a person SAYS. That is voided by actual FEATS.

Experience helps but not here. Cassie is faster, stronger and plus has the ability to read opponents moves. Even if I were going by the books Cass and Shiva have both beat Batman. You just choose to ignore it cause you didn't like it

Errmm...Yes, Shiva and Cass have both 'won' in individual fights, but going by Batmans record against them, he is superior. I believe he drew with Shiva once, and bested her once. A similar outcome with cass.

I could be wrong though, I'm not above admitting that I'm mistaken.

Originally posted by batdude123
Drakon is an anamoly. He comes out of nowhere and kicks Connor's ass badly. I don't even consider him in DC's top dogs because he's been shown once.

IMO:

1. Karate Kid
2. Batman 1 Million
3. Batman/Batgirl/Lady Shiva/Richard Dragon
4. Bronze Tiger
5. Connor
6. Promethius
7. Ra's Al Guhl
etc.

I like to stick to current time-lines and no one with powers so my rating is

1. Batgirl
2. Shiva/Batman/Richard
3. Conner Hawke
4. Bronze Tiger
5. Cain

Originally posted by marvelprince
Experience helps but not here. Cassie is faster, stronger and plus has the ability to read opponents moves. Even if I were going by the books Cass and Shiva have both beat Batman. You just choose to ignore it cause you didn't like it

Faster? Yes, she is. Stronger? HELL no. Not to mention he has her beat in other physical categories as well. Hmmm, the spar between the two would suggest that they tied. However, you also have to take into consideration that Batman was fighting her with only one arm most of the time and even landed a solid blow on her that made her hurt. Not to mention, he flat out told her that the defensive part of her skills was obsolete. Another piece of evidence that makes Bruce at least Cassie's equal. It's exactly like the Supergirl/Superman situation. Supergirl is better than Superman, until he actually decides to end the fight and stop holding back.

Lady Shiva has a losing record against Bruce. 😉

Originally posted by marvelprince
I like to stick to current time-lines and no one with powers so my rating is

1. Batgirl
2. Shiva/Batman/Richard
3. Conner Hawke
4. Bronze Tiger
5. Cain

Well, I can accept your opinion. 😉

Originally posted by batdude123
Faster? Yes, she is. Stronger? HELL no. Not to mention he has her beat in other physical categories as well. Hmmm, the spar between the two would suggest that they tied. However, you also have to take into consideration that Batman was fighting her with only one arm most of the time and even landed a solid blow on her that made her hurt. Not to mention, he flat out told her that the defensive part of her skills was obsolete. Another piece of evidence that makes Bruce at least Cassie's equal. It's exactly like the Supergirl/Superman situation. Supergirl is better than Superman, until he actually decides to end the fight and stop holding back.

Lady Shiva has a losing record against Bruce. 😉

Its been stated time and time again again that she is like 2.5 times stronger than normal and 1.5 times stronger. I do remember that she has no defence though, you are right about that.

Originally posted by marvelprince
Its been stated time and time again again that she is like 2.5 times stronger than normal and 1.5 times stronger. I do remember that she has no defence though, you are right about that.

Well, again. What feats has she had that puts her above Bruce in the strength category? Because I know Bruce's strength feats make me think he's stronger than she is, and I read a lot of Batgirl stuff. 2.5 times stronger than a normal human is good, but Batman is probably more than 2.5 times stronger than a normal human himself. He gained this through extensive training of his body and mind. Not to mention his chi allows him to do crazy feats. Like kicking down a huge tree. 😖hifty:

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Are you referring to Batman or Captain America. I'm somewhat in agreement about Batman, but frankly if Captain America is supposed to be the best h2h fighter in all of Marvel as some claim then I'm unimpressed by the level of Marvel's h2h skills.

marvel universe h2h Royalty:

Shen kuei THE CAT

the following supersede Cap in Hand 2 Hand fightin

*Cable*
*Wolverine*
Black Panther
Spiderman
Domino
Domina [leader of the Neo]
Daredevil
Deadpool

Originally posted by don't shiv
marvel universe h2h Royalty:

Shen kuei THE CAT

the following supersede Cap in Hand 2 Hand fightin

*Cable*
*Wolverine*
Black Panther
Spiderman
Domino
Domina [leader of the Neo]
Daredevil
Deadpool

caps fighting skill is PIS.

he's got Sound Basic skills, augumented by enhanced strength + reaction times ,extensive experience and Confidence in his ability which is maintained by an aggressive propaganda machine.

Originally posted by don't shiv
caps fighting skill is PIS.

he's got Sound Basic skills, augumented by enhanced strength + reaction times ,extensive experience and Confidence in his ability which is maintained by an aggressive propaganda machine.

muay thai, simple but repeated to perfection. and effective like none other.

when it comes to cap the flag stars and strpes costume is more effective than SSS.

SHIVA CASS BATS Mr TERRIFFIC are OLYMPIC level athletes Plus. to this posse SSS is as effective as black coffee.

[Shiva would snuff Cap like a Candle, and enjoy it.]