Originally posted by Bardock42
As have I, right?
As have you what? I never accused you of saying "it's the law" as you did to me just now. You think that a 12 year old is mature enough to make his or her own choices and if they make the wrong choice, then 'tough for them' or something along those lines. I fully disagree with you and I have repeatedly giving you reasons and examples of why I thought that.
Originally posted by PVS
um, i did all the work and you just ran in and stole the kill 😠
Yeah, I did, didn't I?
Originally posted by Robtard
As have you what? I never accused you of saying "it's the law" as you did to me just now. You think that a 12 year old is mature enough to make his or her own choices and if they make the wrong choice, then 'tough for them' or something along those lines. I fully disagree with you and I have repeatedly giving you reasons and examples of why I thought that.
And I and Urizen have given reasons why it should be accepted.
Originally posted by Bardock42
So you basically get to decide what is progression (evolution)?
No, not just me, something called society (sorry, no kill PVS, hate to dissapoint you)... There's a reason why things like slavery, murder, thievery and pedophilia are illegal. Society as a collective deems it so and for acceptable or 'good' reasons.
Like I said, slavery was acceptable throughout history, the Egyptians, Romans, United States etc. had it at one time. But somewhere along the way, people realized it is not a justifiable practice and now slavery is gone. If you were to enslave someone, you'd be jailed and for a good reason.
Originally posted by Robtard
No, not just me, something called society... There's a reason why things like slavery, murder, thievery and pedophilia are illegal. Society as a collective deems it so and for acceptable or 'good' reasons.Like I said, slavery was acceptable throughout history, the Egyptians, Romans, United States etc. had it at one time. But somewhere along the way, people realized it is not a justifiable practice and now slavery is gone. If you were to enslave someone, you'd be jailed and for a good reason.
But if slavery was reinstalled by society you yourself claimed it would be regression....you are unreasonable.
Originally posted by Robtard
Not reasonable ones. I'm sure a thief will try and justify why stealing should be allowed.
Gimme a second..oh yea right...stealing harms someone else...having sex with an older person doesn't harm someone else. There we go.
Originally posted by Robtard
No, not just me, something called society... There's a reason why things like slavery, murder, thievery and pedophilia are illegal. Society as a collective deems it so and for acceptable or 'good' reasons.Like I said, slavery was acceptable throughout history, the Egyptians, Romans, United States etc. had it at one time. But somewhere along the way it people realized it is not a justifiable practice and now slavery is gone. If you were to enslave someone, you'd be jailed and for good reason.
yet we have constantly evolving laws regarding sex. i guess if you fall under the delusion that our society has reached the peak of realisation of absolute moralty, then you may seem correct. however the facts remains that
1-many 14 year old girls are capable of becoming pregnant
2-in a household influenced by elders, a child can (and has) been brought up in a suitable environment. (grandma living in to aid in parenting, this sort of thing)
3-most 16, 18, and even 20+ women are not capable of properly raising a child on their own and need assistance from others, most commonly their parents.
you have never proven a justification for allowing a 16 year old to have sex. what makes them better equipped? what makes an 18 year old better equipped? for the life of me, i cant see a damn bit of difference in the maturity (mentallity) of a 14, 16, and 18 year old. maybe, as bardock will swoop in and point out, im just getting old
Originally posted by Bardock42
But if slavery was reinstalled by society you yourself claimed it would be regression....you are unreasonable.Gimme a second..oh yea right...stealing harms someone else...having sex with an older person doesn't harm someone else. There we go.
No, that's why I said progression, if slavery came back, it would be regression and I truly believe the vast majority of people would be against it.
Are you sure about that? There are thousands and thousands of children that were physically and emotionally harmed by having sex with adults. Like I said, children develop in stages and we have age restriction to not allow them all they like.
Originally posted by Robtard
No, that's why I said progression, if slavery came back, it would be regression and I truly believe the vast majority of people would be against it.Are you sure about that? There are thousands and thousands of children that were physically and emotionally harmed by having sex with adults. Like I said, children develop in stages and we have age restriction to not allow them all they like.
They might be. What is society decides that all blue eyed people should be killed. That would be a new law. Evolution. Does that make it good?
Well, of course if they didn't give consent and were raped they might be harmed...which is why rape (real rape) is illegal. But if sex between 12 year old and 40 year olds would be totally accepted they wouldn't be harmed....why should they?
(from another thread)
Originally posted by WickedTexasMomA
I agree, in fact one of my brothers friends got sent to prison for sleeping with his underage wife. 🙄 They where dating, and sleeping with each other , when he was 20 and she was 17. Right before she turned 18 and they got married her parents went and filed rape charges on him. He is now spending the next ten years in prison and he hasn't seen his own child. Another lil Oklahoma Law. You can't have visit with anyone under the age of 10 while incarcerated.
well, since its law and it doesnt involve slavery, killing, rape, etc. then its progressive and thus right that he spend 10 years in jail for making love to his wife.
Originally posted by PVS
yet we have constantly evolving laws regarding sex. i guess if you fall under the delusion that our society has reached the peak of realisation of absolute moralty, then you may seem correct. however the facts remains that1-many 14 year old girls are capable of becoming pregnant
2-in a household influenced by elders, a child can (and has) been brought up in a suitable environment. (grandma living in to aid in parenting, this sort of thing)
3-most 16, 18, and even 20+ women are not capable of properly raising a child on their own and need assistance from others, most commonly their parents.
you have never proven a justification for allowing a 16 year old to have sex. what makes them better equipped? what makes an 18 year old better equipped? for the life of me, i cant see a damn bit of difference in the maturity (mentallity) of a 14, 16, and 18 year old. maybe, as bardock will swoop in and point out, im just getting old
No, obviously our society has not reached it's peak, when did I say that? The fact that pedophilia still exist is one of thousands of examples that 'we' are not perfect.
1) And your point? The youngest girl to ever get pregnant was a year old Peruvian girl.
2) I agree, whats the point though?
3)I agree, whats the point though? Some 50 year olds have zero social skills, but we realize that at certain ages a certain peak of maturity is reached so therefore more privileges are allowed.
I haven't, personally I think a 16 year old shouldn't be having sex with someone far older than him/her, but that's just my personal opinion here. But as I said, maturity comes with age, that's why a 16 year old is allowed/trusted to drive in the US while a 12 year old is not.
Originally posted by Bardock42
They might be. What is society decides that all blue eyed people should be killed. That would be a new law. Evolution. Does that make it good?Well, of course if they didn't give consent and were raped they might be harmed...which is why rape (real rape) is illegal. But if sex between 12 year old and 40 year olds would be totally accepted they wouldn't be harmed....why should they?
Obviously no, and do you think that will happen and the vast majority of people will be for killing peole because of eye color? You are reaching and it is getting silly.
Because most likely the child would be taken advantage of... I have reasoned and giving you examples of why restrictions exist on children, they are not mature enough to make every little decision for themselves. I have even asked you a hypothetical question trying to explain this to you. If you're parents allowed you to do whatever you wanted when you were a child, would you still be here? Would society even exist if no laws/restrictions existed on children's desires and actions?
You fail to see this, your mindset of 'a 12 year old is mature enough to make his/her own choices and if they make the wrong one, then to back for them' is insane.
Originally posted by Robtard
If you want to dish up and repeat the 'it was acceptable before' argument as done by Bardock with his ancient Greek analogies, that is a moot point. Lots of things were acceptable 50, 100 or 1,000+ years ago. Luckily society has 'evolved' if you will.
Precisely. 2000 years ago in Rome, men were killed for the bloodthirsty entertainment of tens of thousands. Why don't we do that any more or bring it back? Oh, right, because we've moved past that. Same thing applies to this argument.
Originally posted by Robtard
Obviously no, and do you think that will happen and the vast majority of people will be for killing peole because of eye color? You are reaching and it is getting silly.Because most likely the child would be taken advantage of... I have reasoned and giving you examples of why restrictions exist on children, they are not mature enough to make every little decision for themselves. I have even asked you a hypothetical question trying to explain this to you. If you're parents allowed you to do whatever you wanted when you were a child, would you still be here? Would society even exist if no laws/restrictions existed on children's desires and actions?
You fail to see this, your mindset of 'a 12 year old is mature enough to make his/her own choices and if they make the wrong one, then to back for them' is insane.
It happened before....Nazi Germany? Was obviously evolution, right0
I am under the impression i would, yes, I don't remember wanting to do anything that would have harmed my existence...yeah, that might just be me, but I don't know of many cases where a 12 year old that wanted sex with a 30 year old, where the 30 year old wasn't punished and the child not put into therapy, where their love was accepted was psychologically screwed up. It's just a problem of how it is dealt with. A problem created by society and people like you.
Originally posted by Robtard
No, obviously our society has not reached it's peak, when did I say that? The fact that pedophilia still exist is one of thousands of examples that 'we' are not perfect.
you implied it clearly. by saying that the justification for the line given in the age law is 'evolution' CLEARLY indicates that you feel that this line is a product of a realisation of absolute moral code. thus the lack of consideration that the line may be just as well placed at 15 or 13.
Originally posted by Robtard
1) And your point? The youngest girl to ever get pregnant was a year old Peruvian girl.
she was an anomoly. bringing up a rare exception does not prove a thing. most 15-16 year old girls are able to give birth. there are some late bloomers, of coarse, but the vast majority can, just as many if not most 14 year olds can.
nature decided the age range. in fact, we seem to be evolving in a direction where that age range is getting lower. some blame the hormones they put in milk, but its still change. nature has set its own age range. thats just a single point to illustrate that the laws we place on age have nothing to do with anything absolute, which you contradict completely...
Originally posted by Robtard
2) I agree, whats the point though?
the point is that you cannot logically tag it as "wrong" any more than you can place the same lable on a 16 year old or even 18 year old having sex. simple as that. the only line is the one which society's opinions can meet on. some thought younger, some thought older, they settled on 16 consentual and 18 absolute. since you agree with this law, you declare yourself master of reality and call it "progression". i think your conclusion is mindblowingly pretentious and utter horseshit. is that clear enough? point taken?
Originally posted by Robtard
3)I agree, whats the point though? Some 50 year olds have zero social skills, but we realize that at certain ages a certain peak of maturity is reached so therefore more privileges are allowed.
i didnt say some. i said most. now read it again, as i typed it and meant it, THEN address the point
Originally posted by Robtard
I haven't, personally I think a 16 year old shouldn't be having sex with someone far older than him/her, but that's just my personal opinion here. But as I said, maturity comes with age, that's why a 16 year old is allowed/trusted to drive in the US while a 12 year old is not.
our very existance as a society is completely a product of opinion.
some however consider their opinion to be absolute truth while others acknowledge that its an opinion, even if universally accepted.
Originally posted by PVS
(from another thread)well, since its law and it doesnt involve slavery, killing, rape, etc. then its progressive and thus right that he spend 10 years in jail for making love to his wife.
What she described is statutory rape and prison sentences are all but unheard of for that, that must have been one messed up judge or some the girls parents had some kind of pull. Society realizes that a 16 year has a different maturity level than a 12 year old, that is why if at 18 I were to f#ck a 12 year old the punishment would be far more severe than if I f#cked a 16 year old.
My friends 19 year old brother was dating a 17 year old girl, they were having sex and her mother knew they were having sex. After he caluosly dumped her, she became a ***** and had her mother (who knew they had been having sex but later denied it) file charges. The judge took into account that he was 19 and she was 17 (not a child) and the punishment was a monetary fine, several community hours and a few sessions of counseling. Not prison, if the girl had been 15 or younger, he would be in prison right now.
Originally posted by Bardock42
It happened before....Nazi Germany? Was obviously evolution, right0I am under the impression i would, yes, I don't remember wanting to do anything that would have harmed my existence...yeah, that might just be me, but I don't know of many cases where a 12 year old that wanted sex with a 30 year old, where the 30 year old wasn't punished and the child not put into therapy, where their love was accepted was psychologically screwed up. It's just a problem of how it is dealt with. A problem created by society and people like you.
WTF? Obviously no again. That was one country under one regime and it was not acceptable by the vast majority for obvious reasons. Dude, you're getting silly with this.
Yea, I am the problem, I am against adults forcing or coercing children to have sex like an adult and with an adult... Do you seriously think that some deep emotional, sexual nd mutually caring love can exist between a 12 year old and a 30 year old? Go ahead, blame your sickness on me and society, thats always the easy way out, transferring blame.
Originally posted by Bardock42
I'm all for bringing that back.
Do you just say sh!t like that for a response to rile people up? I noticed you almost always take the negative side of things. Like the gay marriage/gay rights thread... Aren't you against gay marriages? Didn't we debate on that before?
The reason I say this, if you are not serious and you really do not think 12 year old should be having sex with adults, please just say so. I do not find being 'trolled' along funny, especilly with pedophilia as the subject.