Flash/Aquaman Vs. Iceman/Storm

Originally posted by Soljer
Iceman doesn't need to 'move' to attack. In fact, since he has no brain, only an indistinguisible consciousness, he doesn't even have NEURONS that fire. Regardless of this. Bobby simply exists as the entire world's water. Ice, mist, vapor, water, everything. Including the water inside everyone's bodies - including that of the flash.

Following this, he simply flash-freezes flash(Pun semi-intended), sure, the Flash would be moving billions of times faster, but unless he can come up with some way to remove ALL the water from the earth, AND from his own body....he isn't gonna be beating bobby.

No no. If Flash steals all of Bobby's speed, he's essentially a statue. As in no molecular motion at all. Even ice's molecules move. If Flash steals all of his speed, Iceman is nothing but a mere shell. There is nothing that can move, not even the ice, not even the "neurons" in Iceman's consciousness. Do you know what I'm saying?

Besides, even IF Iceman pulled a flash-freeze, it would hold Flash for about a second before he vibrates fast enough to either melt the ice holding him, break through by making it explode, or simply phase right through the block of ice.

:😖macks own forehead::

I just thought of something. Why isn't anyone arguing the easy way Aquaman can win? He just shuts down both Iceman's consciousness and Storm's mind. There. Flash and Aquaman win anyway.

Originally posted by Soljer
Iceman doesn't need to 'move' to attack. In fact, since he has no brain, only an indistinguisible consciousness, he doesn't even have NEURONS that fire. Regardless of this. Bobby simply exists as the entire world's water. Ice, mist, vapor, water, everything. Including the water inside everyone's bodies - including that of the flash.

Following this, he simply flash-freezes flash(Pun semi-intended), sure, the Flash would be moving billions of times faster, but unless he can come up with some way to remove ALL the water from the earth, AND from his own body....he isn't gonna be beating bobby.

since when did being in ice form make Iceman invulnerable to telepathy? or is there a new upgrade i don't know about.

Originally posted by montrail
What are you talking about? How am I even crashing this thread?

Yes I do and I am aware of his speed...but I am also aware of Iceman and Storms abilities. I don't just know about 1 character.

That was a kind of a mean thing for me to say. So actually, I apologize for that. I'm taking out my boredom at work on you. My bad.

Are you saying you don't know about Aquaman? Or enough about Flash?

Because I know oodles and oodles about Iceman, Storm, and Flash, as well as a decent amount about Aquaman.

Wait, why can't iceman freeze molecules. Where in comic dom does it say that? I will check it out and see, unless someone knows something

Originally posted by Metalmanx
No no. If Flash steals all of Bobby's speed, he's essentially a statue. As in no molecular motion at all. Even ice's molecules move. If Flash steals all of his speed, Iceman is nothing but a mere shell. There is nothing that can move, not even the ice, not even the "neurons" in Iceman's consciousness. Do you know what I'm saying?

Besides, even IF Iceman pulled a flash-freeze, it would hold Flash for about a second before he vibrates fast enough to either melt the ice holding him, break through by making it explode, or simply phase right through the block of ice.

:😖macks own forehead::

I just thought of something. Why isn't anyone arguing the easy way Aquaman can win? He just shuts down both Iceman's consciousness and Storm's mind. There. Flash and Aquaman win anyway.

You don't understand. Bobby's speed is stolen, but he doesn't NEED it. Whatever 'shell' he was using would be stopped dead, but he could simply inhabit all the waters of the world. And regardless, he doesn't have ANY neurons in his consciousness to fire. That was my point exactly. There is nothing physical to Iceman for the Flash to speed-steal off of.

Also, yes, the Flash may be able to vibrate out of even absolute zero. However, the Iceman could also just immerse every molecule of the Flash's body (inside and out) to absolute zero, and keep it there. The flash is a powerful hero, but he still has a human body. He will die just like any other human would, if subjected to absolute zero temperatures from the inside out.

Originally posted by Soljer
You don't understand. Bobby's speed is stolen, but he doesn't NEED it. Whatever 'shell' he was using would be stopped dead, but he could simply inhabit all the waters of the world. And regardless, he doesn't have ANY neurons in his consciousness to fire. That was my point exactly. There is nothing physical to Iceman for the Flash to speed-steal off of.

Also, yes, the Flash may be able to vibrate out of even absolute zero. However, the Iceman could also just immerse every molecule of the Flash's body (inside and out) to absolute zero, and keep it there. The flash is a powerful hero, but he still has a human body. He will die just like any other human would, if subjected to absolute zero temperatures from the inside out.

Not necessarily. You're forgetting a very important piece of information, summed up in two words. Speed Force.

Originally posted by ebonyblade1
Wait, why can't iceman freeze molecules. Where in comic dom does it say that? I will check it out and see, unless someone knows something

Originally posted by Metalmanx
Not necessarily. You're forgetting a very important piece of information, summed up in two words. Speed Force.

Molecular Moisture Inversion: ability to transform people into moisture molecules and transport them over great distances, this is the equivalent of a form of teleportation.

Hey, this is one of iceman powers. Does he ever use it offensively. I mean wouldn't it be deadly to flash if he transforms him into moisture molecules and just leave him as moisture molecules?

Originally posted by Metalmanx
Not necessarily. You're forgetting a very important piece of information, summed up in two words. Speed Force.

What of the speed force? Flash can speed steal, or dump a bit of water into the speed force, sure. But unless he does it with every molecule of water on the planet - including the hundred plus pounds that reside INSIDE his own body, he won't even be CLOSE to stopping Iceman.

I'm going to do something which is against EVERY rule of debate; ask a question to which I do not know the answer.

You claim that the speed force is Flash's key to victory. I know a bit about the Flash and the speed force, but, apparently, I am overlooking something. What is it that gives flash this easy win?

EDIT: To ebony blade:

Or, just use moisture inversion on a specific body part, namely, the opponents head.

It has been mentioned, and used time and time again in Iceman vs. Threads as a method to an easy victory. However, iceman may have trouble getting a bead on someone as fast as the Flash.

Regardless, it is still a tactic that he could use if he pleased. In fact, he could always just invert EVERYONE on the planet to moisture, and be sure he got the Flash too.

Good question.

Originally posted by Soljer
What of the speed force? Flash can speed steal, or dump a bit of water into the speed force, sure. But unless he does it with every molecule of water on the planet - including the hundred plus pounds that reside INSIDE his own body, he won't even be CLOSE to stopping Iceman.

I'm going to do something which is against EVERY rule of debate; ask a question to which I do not know the answer.

You claim that the speed force is Flash's key to victory. I know a bit about the Flash and the speed force, but, apparently, I am overlooking something. What is it that gives flash this easy win?

EDIT: To ebony blade:

Or, just use moisture inversion on a specific body part, namely, the opponents head.

It has been mentioned, and used time and time again in Iceman vs. Threads as a method to an easy victory. However, iceman may have trouble getting a bead on someone as fast as the Flash.

Regardless, it is still a tactic that he could use if he pleased. In fact, he could always just invert EVERYONE on the planet to moisture, and be sure he got the Flash too.

I never claimed it was the key to his victory. I brought up the Speed Force as a defense against his normal human durability. The Speed Force keeps him undamaged and intact when running or just moving in general at such high speeds. It also accellerates his healing as well.

Another tactic I came up with. Flash simply socks Iceman in the face with an IMP (infinite-mass punch) and sends him flying far beyond escape velocity. Won't kill him by any means. But, it removes him from the battle.

And again, why aren't we realizing that Aquaman just shuts both Iceman and Storm down telepathically?

and Iceman is very much so weak to telepathy. when he was stuck in ice-form and wanted to turn back he came to Emma. She kicked him and then cast various illusions in his minds. so AM mind rapes Iceman and Storm is annihilated by Flash.

Originally posted by Metalmanx
I never claimed it was the key to his victory. I brought up the Speed Force as a defense against his normal human durability. The Speed Force keeps him undamaged and intact when running or just moving in general at such high speeds. It also accellerates his healing as well.

Another tactic I came up with. Flash simply socks Iceman in the face with an IMP (infinite-mass punch) and sends him flying far beyond escape velocity. Won't kill him by any means. But, it removes him from the battle.

And again, why aren't we realizing that Aquaman just shuts both Iceman and Storm down telepathically?

Originally posted by montrail
Because Storm is highly resistant to telepathy thats why.

Highly resistant to mind-control. Not telepathic attacks. Or does xmarks need to post that Emma-PSI-blasting Storm scan again?

Thats up to him. Do I need to post a scan where she got pass Emma, Candra, and Pyslocke?

What can Aqualoser...i mean Aquaman do with his telepathy anyway?

Originally posted by Superherovandal
and Iceman is very much so weak to telepathy. when he was stuck in ice-form and wanted to turn back he came to Emma. She kicked him and then cast various illusions in his minds. so AM mind rapes Iceman and Storm is annihilated by Flash.

That is not the form of ice-man being discussed here. When ice-man is sufficiently in touch with "everything" his psyche is impossible to locate; Jean could not feel it or find him.

I don't think they realize Iceman's potential partiallyinsane.

Indeed. Jean couldn't locate his consciousness when he was in 'dispersed form'. A mindrape likely would NOT be an effective attack, if Jean couldn't even find him.

Also, you are wanting to use the infinite mass punch, all fine and dandy, except that the FORCE of the punch would simply shatter the ice, the flash would go THROUGH the ice, it would seem. Just like a normal human being hit with the punch would be liquified, not sent into space. Ice isn't durable enough to take a punch like that, it would obliterate Iceman's physical form, but, as we all know, that is hardly a problem.

Hence, we are still left with the Flash being unable to put Iceman down. AND, we are left with iceman being able to freeze the Flash, at least temporarily. Once he IS temporarily frozen, he is no longer travelling at such high speeds, it would be logical to follow that the speed force no longer offers such protection.

Then, every molecule in the flash's body is immersed into absolute zero temperatures, allowing him to, eventually(if not immediately), die from the temperature extreme.

You see, this is kind of like bobby's own version of a speed steal. Absolute zero? Zero kinetic energy. The Flash's lungs stop filling. His heart no longer beats. Not a single atom in his bloodstream moves. The neurons can no longer fire in his mind. The Flash can't think. He can't breathe. He can't live.

😬.