Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
Your comparing spirit meter to the super art 😆
They are [B]nothing a like, the spirit meter was needed to perform special moves in general , how is that anything like the super art? basically your taking anything with a bar and comparing it with the super art.-And you wanna talk about copying, like when snk copies multiple signature moves from capcom. like giving robert a sonic boom like projectile and a flash kick.
-And your talking about innovations when tag team, super art and street fighter 2's engine were all ripped off by snk. [/B]
erm... its not just for 'special' moves.. its for super moves also, as I've clearly stated 😆
robert doesnt have a sonic boom like projectile.. he never did....
I can see your point about the flash kick, but I think that particular move no longer exists
you cant copywrite a genre... sorry to break that news to you... or else Dragonquest and Final fantasy creators would have long sued eachother
as I've said.. tag team is a spinoff of 3v3.. but I dont think SNK's hardware was able to pull off having multiple movesets on the fly, which is why 'tagging' hadnt been done until 2003 (which if youll notice, has crappy sound / music as a consequence)
describe a super art please... (again I've already mentioned this is more about 'condition' for you than what actually results from this condition)
Originally posted by SaTsuJiN
erm... its not just for 'special' moves.. its for super moves also, as I've clearly stated 😆
Erm..no it isn't 😕
Originally posted by SaTsuJiN
robert doesnt have a sonic boom like projectile.. he never did....
I can see your point about the flash kick, but I think that particular move no longer exists
Wonderful, by chance have you played kof 2000 & 2001, since I have it I'm pretty sure I'm right. 🙄
Originally posted by SaTsuJiN
you cant copywrite a genre... sorry to break that news to you... or else Dragonquest and Final fantasy creators would have long sued eachother
Did I make any refrence to capcom owning fighting games?
Originally posted by SaTsuJiN
as I've said.. tag team is a spinoff of 3v3.. but I dont think SNK's hardware was able to pull off having multiple movesets on the fly, which is why 'tagging' hadnt been done until 2003 (which if youll notice, has crappy sound / music as a consequence)
X-men vs street fighter did not come out in 2003 and snk uses 16 bit graphics on purpose. your desperatly trying to make connections. the first tag team was 2VS2, how is that a spin off of 3VS3?
Originally posted by SaTsuJiN
describe a super art please... (again I've already mentioned this is more about 'condition' for you than what actually results from this condition)
I'm not repeating myself, the only thing the super art had in common with the spirit bar was the fact they both had bars. Spirit bar was not a super it was a special.
Here's an faq:
6) THE SPIRIT SYSTEMArt of Fighting is unlike many other 2D fighting
games. You cannot keep doing the same special moves
over and over again.This is because of the "spirit" gauge which is
underneath your fighter's energy bar. Every time you
do a special move, the spirit gauge will drain
slightly. As you keep doing moves, the spirit gauge
will get less and less and your special moves will
look less impressive and do less damage.Charge the spirit gauge back up to make your special
moves more powerful. However, when you do charge up
your special gauge, the opponent may well attack you
so you have to be careful when doing so.Generally, the power of your special moves can
be broken up by the 3 colours of the spirit gauge.
Do you see the word super there?
Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
Erm..no it isn't 😕
I played it.. you havent I'm guessing.. and are telling me its not?..
Its used for both special and super... Haoshokouken is something you learn on the way.. it cannot be done without it.. and it takes up your entire spirit bar to cast.... I dont know about you but I'd call that a super
Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
Wonderful, by chance have you played kof 2000 & 2001, since I have it I'm pretty sure I'm right. 🙄
well I have 2k2 and 2k3 (bought it for 20 dollars).. and I assure you he does no such fireball in either, and they're more recent
Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
Did I make any refrence to capcom owning fighting games?
you said "Street Fighter 2's engine was ripped off by SNK"... as if the fighting game genre could be done different? like I said... that means either dragon quest or final fantasy ripped off eachothers engines as well
Originally posted by Emperor Ashtarbecause prior to KoF, no other fighting game was having more than a 1 on 1 per "fight" .. regular capcom games have simple sprites, which eat less RAM.. you need lots of RAM to have real time tag team battles
X-men vs street fighter did not come out in 2003 and snk uses 16 bit graphics on purpose. your desperatly trying to make connections. the first tag team was 2VS2, how is that a spin off of 3VS3?
desperately?.. I'm telling you its a hardware limitation.. or I'm certain they'd have done tag battles ages ago... they insist (which I dont really like) on using that old technology.. but oh well.. their choice
Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
I'm not repeating myself, the only thing the super art had in common with the spirit bar was the fact they both had bars. Spirit bar was not a super it was a special.Here's an faq:
Do you see the word super there?
see above.. Haoshokouken is a super move... I believe AoF 2 is when they had the super combo..
Originally posted by SaTsuJiN
I played it.. you havent I'm guessing.. and are telling me its not?..Its used for both special and super... Haoshokouken is something you learn on the way.. it cannot be done without it.. and it takes up your entire spirit bar to cast.... I dont know about you but I'd call that a super
Actually, I have played it and those are not super moves. they became super moves later on.
Originally posted by SaTsuJiN
well I have 2k2 and 2k3 (bought it for 20 dollars).. and I assure you he does no such fireball in either, and they're more recent
You are aware that snk move list tend to change drastically every year and yes they he had it. play 2K & 2K1 then tell you haven't seen it.
Originally posted by SaTsuJiN
you said "Street Fighter 2's engine was ripped off by SNK"... as if the fighting game genre could be done different? like I said... that means either dragon quest or final fantasy ripped off eachothers engines as well
Dragon quest and final fantasy are made by the same company why would it matter? and snk did rip off street fighter 2 engine.
Originally posted by SaTsuJiN
because prior to KoF, no other fighting game was having more than a 1 on 1 per "fight" .. regular capcom games have simple sprites, which eat less RAM.. you need lots of RAM to have real time tag team battlesdesperately?.. I'm telling you its a hardware limitation.. or I'm certain they'd have done tag battles ages ago... they insist (which I dont really like) on using that old technology.. but oh well.. their choice
You do know that street fighter was based of games like final fight, the whole concept came from games like double dragon, which had more than 1 person on the screen so what are you talking about, again explain how 3 character line up is the originator of 2 on 2 tag?
Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
Actually, I have played it and those are not super moves. they became super moves later on.
it was 'super' because it took the entire bar to cast... super is something that does extreme damage.. and Haoshokoken did
Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
You are aware that snk move list tend to change drastically every year and yes they he had it. play 2K & 2K1 then tell you haven't seen it.
Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
Dragon quest and final fantasy are made by the same company why would it matter? and snk did rip off street fighter 2 engine.
another statement without reasoning for backup
Originally posted by Emperor Ashtaryou do know that those characters had 2 to 3 frames of animation for each move.. and perhaps 3 special moves each, if that right?.. plus double dragon didnt need to worry about graphics
You do know that street fighter was based of games like final fight, the whole concept came from games like double dragon, which had more than 1 person on the screen so what are you talking about, again explain how 3 character line up is the originator of 2 on 2 tag?
the concept is involving more than 1 person into the battle.. having that in real time takes more ram than I believe SNKs hardware to handle.. capcom uses updated hardware as you can see with their useage of cps3 chip and NAOMI arcade hardware
if you even wanted to try to run mugen, youll notice that it skips on most computers, cuz 2d fighters are RAM eating monsters
we can also attribute it to the style that the developers may have wanted... i.e. allowing real time jump-ins could have been considered "dirty fighting".. /shrug
3 on 3 in real time with SNK's hardware is so not happening lol.. thats what makes marvel vs capcom 2 so great
Originally posted by SaTsuJiN
it was 'super' because it took the entire bar to cast... super is something that does extreme damage.. and Haoshokoken did
... everymove took alot of damage, during the early days of fighting games. in street fighter zangiefs plie driver could kill you in 2 and a half tries. again their were no supers in art of fighting,
Art of Fighting is unlike many other 2D fighting
games. You cannot keep doing the same special moves
over and over again.
Haoshoken was considered a special only later did it become a super.
And the director of street fighter 1 worked on the AOF seies.
Originally posted by SaTsuJiN
ok so you're griping about something that no longer exists? 😐
That's just one example out of many.
Originally posted by SaTsuJiN
DQ and FF werent always the same company.. so it can apply hereanother statement without reasoning for backup
No, it can't apply here, yes snk had an original concept. it doesn't change the fact they ripped off street fighters 2 game play and signature moves I might add. hell they even ripped off characters: Micheal Max,Ryo,and who can forget brocken
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:BrockenWorldHeroes.jpg
Originally posted by SaTsuJiN
you do know that those characters had 2 to 3 frames of animation for each move.. and perhaps 3 special moves each, if that right?.. plus double dragon didnt need to worry about graphics
And how does that change the fact fighting games were based off beat'em ups?
Originally posted by SaTsuJiN
the concept is involving more than 1 person into the battle.. having that in real time takes more ram than I believe SNKs hardware to handle.. capcom uses updated hardware as you can see with their useage of cps3 chip and NAOMI arcade hardwareif you even wanted to try to run mugen, youll notice that it skips on most computers, cuz 2d fighters are RAM eating monsters
we can also attribute it to the style that the developers may have wanted... i.e. allowing real time jump-ins could have been considered "dirty fighting".. /shrug
Sigh, and does that change the fact that 3 on 3 line up is not the jump in? The first tag team started with 2 vs 2. how is that anything like 3 on 3 line up. and snk has an advance board. they are currently running on the atomis wave and before that mark of garou ran on the "Neo Geo" board( it was spectacular) Snk purposely uses 16 bit so they can keep that classic look, it doesn't mean they can't do 3 on 3 especially considering many people left capcom to work on snk.
Originally posted by SaTsuJiN
3 on 3 in real time with SNK's hardware is so not happening lol.. thats what makes marvel vs capcom 2 so great
It already did, 2K3 has tag and so does KOF 11.
Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
... everymove took alot of damage, during the early days of fighting games. in street fighter zangiefs plie driver could kill you in 2 and a half tries. again their were no supers in art of fighting,Haoshoken was considered a special only later did it become a super.
And the director of street fighter 1 worked on the AOF seies.
Haosho did far more damage than any other move robert or ryo had at the time... basically if you hit the enemy with it, it was a damn-near guaranteed win
plus you had to learn it as part of the story, reinforcing the fact that it was more revered than any of the moves you had prior to that event.. which makes it a super move
ok.. so rather than blame SNK for 'copying' street fighters gameplay... blame the retarded street fighter employee for not twisting things up a bit, perhaps?
Originally posted by Emperor AshtarI see.. and you take Yuri as an example of good character design? 😘
That's just one example out of many.
your time period of logged KoF crimes happened during the current reign of 'snk-gaymore'.. where all originality has been lost.. and falcoon is the art director 😘 😘
Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
No, it can't apply here, yes snk had an original concept. it doesn't change the fact they ripped off street fighters 2 game play and signature moves I might add. hell they even ripped off characters: Micheal Max,Ryo,and who can forget brocken
and how many world heroes games were there? like 3 or 4? lol... someone must have liked them, despite the conceptual shortcomings..
anyways.. the characters that deserved fame from that series got it.. such as hanzou and fuuma
Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
And how does that change the fact fighting games were based off beat'em ups?
I didnt say they werent.. but my point is that beatemups are much simpler in design than their pure-fighter counterparts..
also less frames = more room to use for other aspects of the game
Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
Snk purposely uses 16 bit so they can keep that classic look, it doesn't mean they can't do 3 on 3 especially considering many people left capcom to work on snk.
It already did, 2K3 has tag and so does KOF 11.
Yes, garou was spectacular.. but you cant expect animation like that AND 3 on 3.. when you tap one area heavily , others suffer
2k3 on Neo Geo hardware.. has disgusting visuals.. poor backgrounds.. and crappy music... the pluses are 3v3 real time (though somehow once I switch out my leader I cant get his ass back.. can only snag the two subs)... and the voices, and even faster paced gameplay... so obviously the tradeoffs are good.. but the aspects that suffer are more than noticeable.. plus falcoon jumped on board with the art... ugh.. thats another downside! 😘 die ash crimson~
horrible~.. and its supposed to be a boy... -_-.. this is basically SNK's current state...
I dont know the state of KoF 11.. but something running on atomiswave 'better' have good everything, or thats just a damn waste
also.. if people from capcom gave away their secret 'street fighter gameplay formula' in the past... why havent they coughed up the way to do 3v3 the right way? 🙂 (such as double middle / double heavy / double light calling out a specific member each)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jua2rno7CRg I want NGBC so badly 🙁
Originally posted by SaTsuJiN
Haosho did far more damage than any other move robert or ryo had at the time... basically if you hit the enemy with it, it was a damn-near guaranteed winplus you had to learn it as part of the story, reinforcing the fact that it was more revered than any of the moves you had prior to that event.. which makes it a super move
No,it's a special move, again there were no supers in AOF you can try to redefine it but so far you haven't offered anything but an opinion. Spirit bar regulated specials during AOF, Hoashoken was a special in AOF.
Originally posted by SaTsuJiN
ok.. so rather than blame SNK for 'copying' street fighters gameplay... blame the retarded street fighter employee for not twisting things up a bit, perhaps?
And it would be his fault because?
Originally posted by SaTsuJiN
I see.. and you take Yuri as an example of good character design? 😘your time period of logged KoF crimes happened during the current reign of 'snk-gaymore'.. where all originality has been lost.. and falcoon is the art director 😘 😘
No, it happened through out snk history, fatal fury copied street fighters engine and AOF copied ken and ryu's style to the bone. originally ken and ryu knew kyokushin karate and magically ryo and robert know kyokugen and brocken is the worst. I like snk but denying they copied from capcom is like denying capcom copied character designs from "jojo bizzare adventure"
Originally posted by SaTsuJiN
and how many world heroes games were there? like 3 or 4? lol... someone must have liked them, despite the conceptual shortcomings..anyways.. the characters that deserved fame from that series got it.. such as hanzou and fuuma
World heroes bacme popular during 3 & 4, I personally liked the game. but it doesn't change the fact about brocken.
Originally posted by SaTsuJiN
I didnt say they werent.. but my point is that beatemups are much simpler in design than their pure-fighter counterparts..also less frames = more room to use for other aspects of the game
And that doesn't change the fact 2 on 2 tag had a better chance of originating from coop beat'em ups.
Originally posted by SaTsuJiN
Yes, garou was spectacular.. but you cant expect animation like that AND 3 on 3.. when you tap one area heavily , others suffer2k3 on Neo Geo hardware.. has disgusting visuals.. poor backgrounds.. and crappy music... the pluses are 3v3 real time (though somehow once I switch out my leader I cant get his ass back.. can only snag the two subs)... and the voices, and even faster paced gameplay... so obviously the tradeoffs are good.. but the aspects that suffer are more than noticeable.. plus falcoon jumped on board with the art... ugh.. thats another downside! 😘 die ash crimson~
horrible~.. and its supposed to be a boy... -_-.. this is basically SNK's current state...
I dont know the state of KoF 11.. but something running on atomiswave 'better' have good everything, or thats just a damn waste
also.. if people from capcom gave away their secret 'street fighter gameplay formula' in the past... why havent they coughed up the way to do 3v3 the right way? 🙂 (such as double middle / double heavy / double light calling out a specific member each)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jua2rno7CRg I want NGBC so badly 🙁
Because capcom doesn't care about it's fans as opposed to snk, capcom only care about making money. ash crimson is not that bad and capcoms tag is were the striker system snk uses developed from.
Here some other info about SNK!!!
Directed by Takashi Nishiyama (credited as "Piston Takashi"😉, he would later leave Capcom for SNK and developed most of their fighting game series (including Fatal Fury and Art of Fighting). A strong similarity is evident between Street Fighter and these early SNK fighting games (e.g., Ryu as compared to Ryo Sakazaki from Art of Fighting, Mike as compared to Michael Max from Fatal Fury and Mickey Rogers from Art of Fighting)
Shall i give you also a list with rip offs from capcom? 🙄
Originally posted by Emperor AshtarAsh Crimson is f**king horrible. SNK & Capcom are both good companies. They both rip each other off @ times. SNK did rip Capcom off 1st though. It is weird that SaT can call one of Gill's moves a ripoff, but he avoids saying the same about Ryo ripping off Ken & Ryu to the fullest🙂. Still, both good companies w/some damn good characters. Anyway, O. Rugal wins by kicking Gill in the face really hard during resurrection."
ash crimson is not that bad
Originally posted by brainchild81
Ash Crimson is f**king horrible. SNK & Capcom are both good companies. They both rip each other off @ times. SNK did rip Capcom off 1st though. It is weird that SaT can call one of Gill's moves a ripoff, but he avoids saying the same about Ryo ripping off Ken & Ryu to the fullest🙂. Still, both good companies w/some damn good characters. Anyway, O. Rugal wins by kicking Gill in the face really hard during resurrection."
Ash rocks.
Gameplay
Art of Fighting was the first fighting game with a super bar, and introduced the spirit gauge and desperation move (the equivalent of super moves, often used with SNK fighting games) into the fighting game vernacular. A spirit gauge is a manually charged super combo gauge where all special moves will utilize and drain, with greater amounts of power dealing greater amounts of damage.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Art_of_Fighting
ah.. more shitting on art of fighting... at least there was no way you could 'fireball spam' as a reliable strategy
and yes, the programmer is partially to blame because he didnt want to offer anything different to the development table than what he had been previously familiar with (SF2)
roberts always been my fave, so call ryo whatever you feel like... IMO art of fighting did it better
Go ahead and list remy.. I bet SNK has at least created 20 different fighting games just for the sake of seeing which one took off... as a company, you cant afford to pour your money into one idea and have it bomb.. so basically it was fighting game creation spam, until SNK realised that S.Showdown , Art of Fighting, Fatal Fury, KoF, and World Heroes were some of its top fighting franchises (I think buriki-one, and Last Blade were up there too)
so remy, I pose another idea to you... weigh how many SNK copied vs how many original characters SNK posesses
P.S. Keep in mind 'none' of SNK's characters are palette swaps
Originally posted by SaTsuJiN
[b]GameplayArt of Fighting was the first fighting game with a super bar, and introduced the spirit gauge and desperation move (the equivalent of super moves, often used with SNK fighting games) into the fighting game vernacular. A spirit gauge is a manually charged super combo gauge where all special moves will utilize and drain, with greater amounts of power dealing greater amounts of damage.
😆 wikipedia can be written by anyone, Again art of fighting does not have supers. all there moves were specials.
Originally posted by SaTsuJiN
ah.. more shitting on art of fighting... at least there was no way you could 'fireball spam' as a reliable strategyand yes, the programmer is partially to blame because he didnt want to offer anything different to the development table than what he had been previously familiar with (SF2)
roberts always been my fave, so call ryo whatever you feel like... IMO art of fighting did it better
AOF sucked and just because your a scrub at SF2 doesn't mean you know what our talking about, using projectiles is only one strategy.
Originally posted by SaTsuJiN
Go ahead and list remy.. I bet SNK has at least created 20 different fighting games just for the sake of seeing which one took off... as a company, you cant afford to pour your money into one idea and have it bomb.. so basically it was fighting game creation spam, until SNK realised that S.Showdown , Art of Fighting, Fatal Fury, KoF, and World Heroes were some of its top fighting franchises (I think buriki-one, and Last Blade were up there too)
All of them are just SF ripoffs, capcom has created WAY more originally fighting games I.E Vampior Savior, snk could never come up with something like that. the original game snk has developed is samurai showdown.
Originally posted by SaTsuJiN
so remy, I pose another idea to you... weigh how many SNK copied vs how many original characters SNK posessesP.S. Keep in mind 'none' of SNK's characters are palette swaps
Your so desperate to prove snk is orginally it's sad, how many flame users does snk have or fake ryu and kens and don't even start with pallet swaps
Vice/Mature
Ralph/clark
kyo/Shingo
Jae hoon/Dong Hwan
Are pallet swaps.
please snk isn't aht good, AOF1 and FF! sucked hard because they didn't implement the SF2 engine (all the famous snk titles use the SF2 engine)
Originally posted by brainchild81
Ash Crimson is f**king horrible. SNK & Capcom are both good companies. They both rip each other off @ times. SNK did rip Capcom off 1st though. It is weird that SaT can call one of Gill's moves a ripoff, but he avoids saying the same about Ryo ripping off Ken & Ryu to the fullest🙂. Still, both good companies w/some damn good characters. Anyway, O. Rugal wins by kicking Gill in the face really hard during resurrection."
i agree, they're both good, and they both pick little things from eachother, as most companies do
Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
AOF sucked and just because your a scrub at SF2 doesn't mean you know what our talking about, using projectiles is only one strategy.and don't even start with pallet swaps
Vice/Mature
Ralph/clark
kyo/Shingo
Jae hoon/Dong HwanAre pallet swaps.
and FYI.. none of the players you listed are pallete swaps... they all have different animation and stances / taunts... you obviously dont know what a pallet swap is and you're shitting on my ability to play fighting games?.. plz... get real, kthx
