Originally posted by Bardiel13
Is it here, that you are wrong. Is Korn popular? Hell yes. Is Korn (extremely) popular among metalheads? Nooooo. I have had a first-hand experience with subcultures of many types of music fans. In the metal forum I am a member of, if you start a thread about Korn, you'll get a lot of either "I don't listen to them." or "I used to listen to them, but grew out of them." or sometimes yet "**** YOU, MALLCORE FAGGOTH! DIE IN A FIRE!!" Most of the replies will consist of the first two, I assure you.
So what? Metal forums are usually full of kids, just learning to play guitar, who think Dragonforce are the most technical band since the last band to sing about dragons and fantasy.
Korn are a metal band, metal forum members do not automatically have more of a valid opinion because they decided they want to box themselves in. I can guarantee I know more about metal than anyone who is like "OHMANILOVEBLINDGUARDIAN!".
These are people who will tell you why funeral doom metal is a legitimate genre, and these are people who shouldn't be allowed to label.
Originally posted by Bardiel13
"Wait!" You must be saying "If metalheads don't listen to Korn, then who does?!" The average teen. Mallcore kids. People who like "heavy music." Yes, Korn does have an audience. Just not the kind that enjoys Emperor and Amon Amarth.
So? It's still metal. Just not the same kind of metal.
Pantera sound nothing like Emperor. Emperor sound nothing like Slayer. Slayer sound nothing like Pantera. All of those are metal bands. Just because Korn aren't accepted as one, doesn't mean they aren't one.
Originally posted by Bardiel13
I am not an elitist and do not condone hating people becuase of their taste in music.
And Alpha Centari is a hypocrite! Nyah! 😆
How am I a hypocrite? You're wrong.
-AC
Originally posted by Bardiel13
"Wait!" You must be saying "If metalheads don't listen to Korn, then who does?!" The average teen. Mallcore kids. People who like "heavy music." Yes, Korn does have an audience. Just not the kind that enjoys Emperor and Amon Amarth.
That's such a generalisation though. How do you define a 'metalhead'? Someone who listens to purely metal, nothing else? That's not a music fan, that's a narrow minded person who disregards certain things because of technicalities, i.e. they're not 'heavy enough' (I question many people's definition of the term 'heavy' as it is), they incorporate elements of other genres (A Tribe Called Quest incorporated elements of jazz and funk into their music, as Korn did elements of hip-hop and funk, did that make ATQ any less a hip-hop group?), they don't rely on screamed/growled vocals, the vocalist wrote about personal issues rather than mutilation and death, or in pseudo-poetic bullshit that is designed to replicate depth and thought in the most shallow way possible, and just ends up sounding like a series of non-sequitars set to music; laughable.
You wanna know who my other favorite metal bands where at the height of my Korn worship? Darkthrone, Sepultura, Sevendust, Celtic Frost, Deftones, Prong, Cryptic Slaughter and Ministry. Screw labelling, of all kinds. Be it bands, fans or anything else.
And AC is a ****ing Nazi. I want to eat his firstborn.
Originally posted by Bardiel13
Some people will actually argue that Nu-Metal, dispite having Metal in its name, is actually a form of Hard Rock. I don't care enough to look into it. I'm just saying it's not part of the metalfandom.
So? That's not part of the argument.
Nu-metal is a kind of metal, therefore any nu-metal band is a metal band.
Just listen to the music.
-AC
So what? Metal forums are usually full of kids, just learning to play guitar, who think Dragonforce are the most technical band since the last band to sing about dragons and fantasy.
Wrong. DragonForce is actually a crapshoot, when it comes to metalheads. Some like it, some hate it. I, personally, find some of their work good. And by saying all of this, I can tell you haven't really been to a forum like that, or at last a good one.
Korn are a metal band, metal forum members do not automatically have more of a valid opinion because they decided they want to box themselves in. I can guarantee I know more about metal than anyone who is like "OHMANILOVEBLINDGUARDIAN!".
These are people who will tell you why funeral doom metal is a legitimate genre, and these are people who shouldn't be allowed to label.
Funeral Doom? Dude, have you listened to Intaglio? Have you listened to Wall of Sleep? Are they both Doom Metal? Yes. Do they sound anything alike? Beyond the "Doom" part... no. I know metal genres can get a bit silly, but some just make sense. Don't let it bother you too much or you'll end up like... *gasp!* ME! DON'T MAKE THE SAME MISTAKE I DID! RUN, AC, RUN!!
So? It's still metal. Just not the same kind of metal.
Pantera sound nothing like Emperor. Emperor sound nothing like Slayer. Slayer sound nothing like Pantera. All of those are metal bands. Just because Korn aren't accepted as one, doesn't mean they aren't one.
However, Pantera, Emperor, and Slayer all use the basic components of Metal. CHUGGA CHUGGA CHUGGA does not make metal. Korn plays CHUGGA CHUGGA CHUGGA. I used to listen to a radio station that played bands like Korn. I never heard a single solo from them. Solos are one of the basic factors (among others) that make metal... well, metal. Korn play heavy. Metal is heavy. They have something in common, true, but Korn isn't quite enough to fit with the others.
How am I a hypocrite? You're wrong.
Because, you are calling me a Genre Nazi like it's a bad thing, yet I remember us having an extensive interweb fight over the genre of Hawthorne Heights. You participated as did I. We are one and the same. WE. ARE... OBNOXIOUS GENRE NAZIS!
Join me, Alpha Centauri, and we shall rule the internets with an iron fist!
-AC [/B][/QUOTE]
Originally posted by Bardiel13
Wrong. DragonForce is actually a crapshoot, when it comes to metalheads. Some like it, some hate it. I, personally, find some of their work good. And by saying all of this, I can tell you haven't really been to a forum like that, or at last a good one.
My point still stands. Metal fans on a metal forum do not have a great worth of opinion just because they dwell on a metal forum. I don't need to do that to know I can go toe to toe on metal knowledge, but it doesn't matter to me. I'm a music fan, not a genre fan, and Korn, like it or not, are a metal band.
Metal fans' inability to believe there are kinds of metal they DON'T like doesn't mean they can say it doesn't exist.
Originally posted by Bardiel13
Funeral Doom? Dude, have you listened to Intaglio? Have you listened to Wall of Sleep? Are they both Doom Metal? Yes. Do they sound anything alike? Beyond the "Doom" part... no. I know metal genres can get a bit silly, but some just make sense. Don't let it bother you too much or you'll end up like... *gasp!* ME! DON'T MAKE THE SAME MISTAKE I DID! RUN, AC, RUN!!
Doom metal itself, to me, is a stupid label. Sludge metal is at least inherent to the sound of the music, due to tuning, but even that is ridiculous.
You are a genre nazi and you act like that's a cool, when you're getting it wrong anyway.
Originally posted by Bardiel13
However, Pantera, Emperor, and Slayer all use the basic components of Metal. CHUGGA CHUGGA CHUGGA does not make metal. Korn plays CHUGGA CHUGGA CHUGGA. I used to listen to a radio station that played bands like Korn. I never heard a single solo from them. Solos are one of the basic factors (among others) that make metal... well, metal. Korn play heavy. Metal is heavy. They have something in common, true, but Korn isn't quite enough to fit with the others.
Solos don't make metal either. Norma Jean are metal, Dillinger are metal. Hardly any solos there.
So what? Who is saying it has to fit with OTHERS? They are still a metal band if they are nu-metal. You called them the epitome of nu-metal, and that makes them a metal band of SOME KIND. Fact.
Originally posted by Bardiel13
Because, you are calling me a Genre Nazi like it's a bad thing, yet I remember us having an extensive interweb fight over the genre of Hawthorne Heights. You participated as did I. We are one and the same. WE. ARE... OBNOXIOUS GENRE NAZIS!
Join me, Alpha Centauri, and we shall rule the internets with an iron fist!
No we're not. I debated that because I was trying to tell you that if you're going to call them anything, call them something that they are, not a label you made up.
Ultimately, I don't care, I just listen to the music. Music is about feeling, and if you are too busy thinking about how to classify a band rather than listening to what you're trying to classify, you're not a FAN of music, you're a fan of catagorisation.
So no, you don't even know what hypocricy means.
Originally posted by Bardiel13
I did. In fact, I used to a lot. It's heavy, yes, but I still say it fits in more with rock.
You're missing the point.
You called Korn the epitome of nu-metal, if that's the case, they're a metal band.
-AC
My point still stands. Metal fans on a metal forum do not have a great worth of opinion just because they dwell on a metal forum. I don't need to do that to know I can go toe to toe on metal knowledge, but it doesn't matter to me. I'm a music fan, not a genre fan, and Korn, like it or not, are a metal band.
Metal fans' inability to believe there are kinds of metal they DON'T like doesn't mean they can say it doesn't exist.
So you're saying you have labeling priority over everyone else. Is that right? Who has the right to make a label official? People interpret things differently and end up squabbling over them (as are we). Hail conformity! 😄
Doom metal itself, to me, is a stupid label. Sludge metal is at least inherent to the sound of the music, due to tuning, but even that is ridiculous.
You are a genre nazi and you act like that's a cool, when you're getting it wrong anyway.
So things should be labeled based on sound, regardless of what we're used to and if it gets the message across anyway. Gotcha. Call me crazy, but I like Power Metal over Magic Fairy Princess-Saving Knight Metal. Also, what makes you think you have it right?
Solos don't make metal either. Norma Jean are metal, Dillinger are metal. Hardly any solos there.
So what? Who is saying it has to fit with OTHERS? They are still a metal band if they are nu-metal. You called them the epitome of nu-metal, and that makes them a metal band of SOME KIND. Fact.
And now, we get into Metalcore. This is the genre Norma Jean and DEP have been label with for mixing Hardcore Punk with Metal. Hardcore isn't known for its solos, but for its emotionally chargd harsh vocals, riffs, etc. They make this heavier and add some nice groovey Thrash and Gothenburg riffs. Bam! Metalcore. I expect you to complain about this genre as well.
No we're not. I debated that because I was trying to tell you that if you're going to call them anything, call them something that they are, not a label you made up.
Ultimately, I don't care, I just listen to the music. Music is about feeling, and if you are too busy thinking about how to classify a band rather than listening to what you're trying to classify, you're not a FAN of music, you're a fan of catagorisation.
So no, you don't even know what hypocricy means.
The Pot Calling the Kettle Black is a popular term used to describe hypocrisy. You debated it should be in a certain genre, and I said differently. We both made points why it should be in said genre. This is something Genre Nazis do all the time. You say you're a fan of music and not genres, but from what I've seen it says otherwise. Of course, I'm not saying I don't admire your diverse taste in music.
You're missing the point.
You called Korn the epitome of nu-metal, if that's the case, they're a metal band.
Fine, then I shall use your logic.
I don't like the term Nu-Metal, because it doesn't really sound like metal. I'd prefer everyone stop calling it that and refer to it simply as Alt-Rock from now on.
Happy?
Originally posted by Bardiel13
So you're saying you have labeling priority over everyone else. Is that right? Who has the right to make a label official? People interpret things differently and end up squabbling over them (as are we). Hail conformity! 😄
Because the common way to decide on a metal band NOWADAYS is; "Do they sound like metal bands we like? No? They're not metal then.". As you have proven.
Originally posted by Bardiel13
So things should be labeled based on sound, regardless of what we're used to and if it gets the message across anyway. Gotcha. Call me crazy, but I like Power Metal over Magic Fairy Princess-Saving Knight Metal. Also, what makes you think you have it right?
I can actually see why "power metal" is applicable. I still just use "metal" because it's pointless otherwise. Power metal is a label I can tolerate, though.
Originally posted by Bardiel13
And now, we get into Metalcore. This is the genre Norma Jean and DEP have been label with for mixing Hardcore Punk with Metal. Hardcore isn't known for its solos, but for its emotionally chargd harsh vocals, riffs, etc. They make this heavier and add some nice groovey Thrash and Gothenburg riffs. Bam! Metalcore. I expect you to complain about this genre as well.
No, no, no. WE do not get into "metalcore", YOU get into metalcore because you are the anal genre nazi who has to have everything in a box to show off to his forum friends how many genres he can name. Despite most of them being shit and irrelevant.
It's metal, the "core" is added because people think any genre with the slightest outside influence needs a new name. As Deathblow said, A Tribe Called Quest have many influences, but they're still just hip hop.
Dillinger also mix those things with jazz and jazz fusion. Primarily, they are a metal band, as are Norma Jean.
Originally posted by Bardiel13
The Pot Calling the Kettle Black is a popular term used to describe hypocrisy. You debated it should be in a certain genre, and I said differently. We both made points why it should be in said genre. This is something Genre Nazis do all the time. You say you're a fan of music and not genres, but from what I've seen it says otherwise. Of course, I'm not saying I don't admire your diverse taste in music.
I debated that metal is more applicable than metalcore, for reasons I just stated. I was suggesting if you're going to call them something, call them what they are. I wasn't making up a name and proposing it.
I know enough about genres to debate, but ultimately I couldn't give a shit. I know enough to know metalCORE or any CORE is pointless. CORE lost its meaning when hardcore punk died. Now? Any band that has the SLIGHTEST outside influence seemingly deserve a new genre. No, they do not.
Originally posted by Bardiel13
Fine, then I shall use your logic.
I don't like the term Nu-Metal, because it doesn't really sound like metal. I'd prefer everyone stop calling it that and refer to it simply as Alt-Rock from now on.Happy?
I'd prefer you to stop using the term "metalcore". Will you? No. Genre tags are created for a reason, not on a whim.
-AC
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri Genre tags are created for a reason, not on a whim.
-AC [/B]
Oh, yay. Something actually intelligent to talk about.
Genre Tags are created for a reason, yes. Some umbrella many. There is no such music that is just "Metal." You may refer to it as that, but it can be broken down into many categories. You say DEP are Metal. What kind are they? They have been officially labeled as Metalcore by pretty much everyone. What gives you superiority over EVERYONE ELSE'S judgement? Are you God's Prophet of Music, sent here to guide us?
Originally posted by Bardiel13
Oh, yay. Something actually intelligent to talk about.Genre Tags are created for a reason, yes. Some umbrella many. There is no such music that is just "Metal." You may refer to it as that, but it can be broken down into many categories. You say DEP are Metal. What kind are they? They have been officially labeled as Metalcore by pretty much everyone. What gives you superiority over EVERYONE ELSE'S judgement? Are you God's Prophet of Music, sent here to guide us?
You made the fatal flaw in the opening lines.
Officially? Unless it's by God himself, or unless there is actual proof, it's not official. Why do they have to be a "kind" of metal? That's the flaw you have. You cannot break away from one kind of thinking.
You are so helplessly brainwashed by the idea that you have to be a nazi with genre tags that you are asking the wrong questions.
What gives everyone else's judgement superiority over mine? Especially when me and many others know more than a lot of the stupid kids that are labelling these bands?
Such a hypocrite. I'm not God's prophet of music, but Dillinger are a metal band by definition. Where's the officiality that they are metalCORE? Officiality meaning undeniable, factual etc. Lots of people agreeing that they are doesn't mean they are, cos lots agree they are not. Terrorizer, one of the world's leading metal publications call them a metal band, as do Metal Hammer. Is your forum ahead of these? No.
If you wish to call them metalcore because they have elements of hardcore punk, then why aren't we calling them metaljazzfusioncore? They have that too. They're metal, call them a metal band.
You have no rational excuse, go follow your forum.
-AC
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Six of those I find justifiable.None of them I use besides the first one.
-AC
I'll take a punt at guessing cos i see 6 passable ones:
Heavy Metal
Power Metal
Death Metal
Thrash Metal
Progressive Metal (thats just prog to me)
Industrial Metal (and thats just Industrial to me)
You made the fatal flaw in the opening lines.
Officially? Unless it's by God himself, or unless there is actual proof, it's not official. Why do they have to be a "kind" of metal? That's the flaw you have. You cannot break away from one kind of thinking.
Because there is no such thing as being just a "metal" band. It's impossible to make a metal band without it fitting into a certain subgenre. That's just how it goes.
You are so helplessly brainwashed by the idea that you have to be a nazi with genre tags that you are asking the wrong questions.
What gives everyone else's judgement superiority over mine? Especially when me and many others know more than a lot of the stupid kids that are labelling these bands?
And how do you know this? What makes you so sure that you're not just another stupid kid blowing hot air? Do you have some sort of certification or degree, given to you my the highest musical authority that states you have labeling priority over everyone else? Let me see it. Please? Pretty please?
Such a hypocrite. I'm not God's prophet of music, but Dillinger are a metal band by definition. Where's the officiality that they are metalCORE? Officiality meaning undeniable, factual etc. Lots of people agreeing that they are doesn't mean they are, cos lots agree they are not. Terrorizer, one of the world's leading metal publications call them a metal band, as do Metal Hammer. Is your forum ahead of these? No.
If you wish to call them metalcore because they have elements of hardcore punk, then why aren't we calling them metaljazzfusioncore? They have that too. They're metal, call them a metal band.
Of course, Dillenger is a metal band. I never said they weren't. But, I am saying that you can't stop at "just metal" if you want to get into detail about their sound (or at least basic detail). There's a reason why these genres are made. It's to help people find what they're looking for, without having to sift through similar things, but not exactly what they want. Sure, we could call DEP MetalJazzFusioncore but, that would make your little face turn red, wouldn't it? You'd be carrying on about how silly the name is and how useless those genres are, so why are you reccomending it? Like I said. Hypocrite.
Originally posted by Bardiel13
Because there is no such thing as being just a "metal" band. It's impossible to make a metal band without it fitting into a certain subgenre. That's just how it goes.
Of course it's not, metal is different from rock because it has certain characteristics, that's how.
I'll be waiting on how Dillinger are officially metalcore because people agree. Proof would be nice.
Originally posted by Bardiel13
And how do you know this? What makes you so sure that you're not just another stupid kid blowing hot air? Do you have some sort of certification or degree, given to you my the highest musical authority that states you have labeling priority over everyone else? Let me see it. Please? Pretty please?
I'm not the one going around claiming they are officially metalcore, officially meaning factually and truthfully. You are.
What they are, right down to technical ability, is a metal band.
Originally posted by Bardiel13
Of course, Dillenger is a metal band. I never said they weren't. But, I am saying that you can't stop at "just metal" if you want to get into detail about their sound (or at least basic detail). There's a reason why these genres are made. It's to help people find what they're looking for, without having to sift through similar things, but not exactly what they want. Sure, we could call DEP MetalJazzFusioncore but, that would make your little face turn red, wouldn't it? You'd be carrying on about how silly the name is and how useless those genres are, so why are you reccomending it? Like I said. Hypocrite.
Do you not see the retardation of calling them Metaljazzfusioncore? I bet you don't, I bet you actually would call them that.
You CAN and SHOULD stop at just metal. It does not imply that you think all metal is the same. People should have the presense of mind to tell what is different, it doesn't require the creation of subgenres so ridiculous.
-AC
Originally posted by Bardiel13Wrong. You have just passed the stupid little teenage metalhead wannabe test. Korn is extremely popular amongst metalheads and that is where are a large percentage of their popularity comes from. I also have first-hand experience because I play in a metal band and my guitar player is the guy that controls the scheduling of shows at my local scene. You have been duped by overly vocal metal elitists that actually aren't metalheads because they have no part in the metal community into thinking that Korn is unpopular with the majority of metal fandom. It's simply not true. Plus, your forum is obviously lamer than many that I've seen. One of the ones I'm a member of has seen death threats for kids that like Pantera and Slipknot and permanent bans for mentioning Metallica, Children of Bodom, Cradle of Filth, Norma Jean, Archenemy or Nightwish, any "nu-metal", industrial metal, or any "alternative metal". Furthermore, Amon Amarth, Cannibal Corpse, Emperor, Slayer, Celtic Frost, Dimmu Borgir and Carcass are known to have "sold out" on their most recent releases. Dying Fetus has been considered mallcore and progressive metal is only allowed to be talked about be girls. Is that actually representative of the majority of metalheads despite it being the biggest metal forum in Alberta? Not even close.
Is it here, that you are wrong. Is Korn popular? Hell yes. Is Korn (extremely) popular among metalheads? Nooooo. I have had a first-hand experience with subcultures of many types of music fans. In the metal forum I am a member of, if you start a thread about Korn, you'll get a lot of either "I don't listen to them." or "I used to listen to them, but grew out of them." or sometimes yet "**** YOU, MALLCORE FAGGOTH! DIE IN A FIRE!!" Most of the replies will consist of the first two, I assure you.
"Wait!" You must be saying "If metalheads don't listen to Korn, then who does?!" The average teen. Mallcore kids. People who like "heavy music." Yes, Korn does have an audience. Just not the kind that enjoys Emperor and Amon Amarth.
I am not an elitist and do not condone hating people becuase of their taste in music.
And Alpha Centari is a hypocrite! Nyah! 😆