Originally posted by Sparkz
And this hasn't anything to do with that, I know the robot was an exact double of Spider-man, but it still wasn't Spider-man,
....but it was his exact double. So therefore if he cant take Cap in H2H the real Spiderman wont............ 😐
Originally posted by Sparkz
and even if Pete can't take Cap h2h Cap easily scoring pressure point hits is still stupid.
Well I dont know about easily but it wouldnt be extremely difficult either.
Originally posted by Alfheim
....but it was his exact double. So therefore if he cant take Cap in H2H the real Spiderman wont............ 😐Well I dont know about easily but it wouldnt be extremely difficult either.
yes but if I were to use evidence of Ben Reily doing something people would discount that saying it wasn't Spider-man even though he is his clone so there really isn't much difference.
Oh come on think about it Spider-man's whole fighting style is bouncing around and attacking how is Cap gonna get a precise shot on someone who fights like that?
Originally posted by Sparkz
yes but if I were to use evidence of Ben Reily doing something people would discount that saying it wasn't Spider-man even though he is his clone so there really isn't much difference.Oh come on think about it Spider-man's whole fighting style is bouncing around and attacking how is Cap gonna get a precise shot on someone who fights like that?
By timing Spideys movements Cap can do this because he has enhanced senses and he times bullets all the time. Also this is what slower skilled boxers do to beat their faster opponents. <---just an example so you don't think I'm talking out my anus.
Originally posted by Caps Conscience
By timing Spideys movements Cap can do this because he has enhanced senses and he times bullets all the time. Also this is what slower skilled boxers do to beat their faster opponents. <---just an example so you don't think I'm talking out my anus.
I'm not say this is an easy feat but if anybody is going to pull it off it would be Cap.
Originally posted by Caps Conscience
By timing Spideys movements Cap can do this because he has enhanced senses and he times bullets all the time. Also this is what slower skilled boxers do to beat their faster opponents. <---just an example so you don't think I'm talking out my anus.
A detail most people seem to forget.
Originally posted by Kid Kurdy
Depends. In some cases, it remains canon, in other, it's not canon anymore.Anybody who reads comics, knows this thing called "retcon". It happens all the time. I don't like it very much, but I guess we have to live with it.
There's not only this "retcon" thing, but characters and abilities also evolve. Spider-Man has gained a hell of a let more experience, and has received two upgrades.
Wolverine for example was only a minor nuisance to Hulk when he first showed up, now he gives Hulk pain and trouble. And theoretically, it's still the same Wolverine.
Right so if a double of Spiderman 40 years ago says he cant handle Cap in H2H and Spiderman today says he cant handle Cap, that means nothing has been retconed, right?
Originally posted by Kid Kurdy
[B]
Wrong. That's only your opinion, and it's not like your opinion is written in stone. Otherwise, this thread wouldn't be 115 pages long.
[B]
Look if I say 1+1 =2 you can disagree as well. Nice one.
Originally posted by Kid Kurdy
Did it help him beat Spider-Man ? Didn't think so. Spider-Man took away his shield, took the beating from CA, was still up, and made CA bleed.Maybe CA didn't study long enough ?
Well Spiderman stated that his blows were very powerful and when somebody says aggggh!! That means it hurts.
You see this is the thing you keep talking about how Spiderman was numb for 3 seconds and downplaying how much he was hurt, stop making a big deal about a tiny cut.
Cap was bleeding so bad he was about to pass out :rolleye:
Originally posted by Kid Kurdy
First rule when fighting Spider-Man: he's very unpredictable.
[B]
Spider-Man can dodge lasers while writing down a recipe. I don't think Captain America can do that.
You havnet got scans of Spiderman dodging lasers while writing down a recipe, have you?
Originally posted by Kid Kurdy
Nobody argues that CA isn't real fast, just not as fast as Spider-Man.
you are arguing that Spiderman is much faster than Cap, hes not.
Originally posted by Kid Kurdy
Did I say that ? No I didn't. His skills just aren't enough.
Well the Spiderman robot would disagree. In civil War Spiderman got hit more times than Cap did.
Originally posted by Kid Kurdy
To a certain extent.
Well.....there you go then. So there 😂
Originally posted by Kid Kurdy
Not vastly, but there definitely is a difference.
Well thats what most people accept but in all fairness if you use scans you cant even prove that Spiderman is faster, but that is not an unreasonable statement.
So if there is not a big diference in speed and Cap has his own enhanced senses why cant skill bridge the gap.
Originally posted by Kid Kurdy
He has to reach for her, grab her, carry her, all that while dodging 4 - four - shooters.Not bad. Not bad at all.
CA dodged one shooter and he was carrying nobody. And it still looked slower.
[B]
That's okay. My example is still faster however.
Well bare in mind one of the reasons why one person was shooting was because Cap was too fast.
As he stated "Where did he go". It could be argued that at least the Policeman saw Parker and were able to fire at him. One of the guys in the scan didnt even know where Cap was.
http://img230.imageshack.us/img230/7056/wolvcapa20304cn4.jpg
http://img231.imageshack.us/img231/6029/wolvcapa205mv9.jpg
If you look at the scans above this more impressive than Spidermans feat. Admitedly its not as flashy but heres why its more impressive.
1. They are better trained, have better equipment and probably have enhancements.
2. Cap carries Wolverine and Carol Danvers at the same times without even using his shield to block
3. They were directly in front of him.
Originally posted by Sparkz
yes but if I were to use evidence of Ben Reily doing something people would discount that saying it wasn't Spider-man even though he is his clone so there really isn't much difference.
Why would they? 😕 Furthermore if Ben Reily and Spiderman said the same thing you would take that into account.
Originally posted by Sparkz
Oh come on think about it Spider-man's whole fighting style is bouncing around and attacking how is Cap gonna get a precise shot on someone who fights like that?
Er because Spiderman isnt much faster than him and Cap has studied his style.
Originally posted by Kid Kurdy
Hitting Spider-Man doesn't mean beating Spider-Man. Spider-Man's durability > CA's durability.A detail most people seem to forget.
and thats another thing which isnt that much beter than Caps.
Originally posted by Alfheim
Right so if a double of Spiderman 40 years ago says he cant handle Cap in H2H and Spiderman today says he cant handle Cap, that means nothing has been retconed, right?
Don't complain, I'm only using your logic.Look if I say 1+1 =2 you can disagree as well. Nice one.
No, if you say 1+1=2, this thread wouldn't be as long as it is now, cuz everybody would agree.Well Spiderman stated that his blows were very powerful and when somebody says aggggh!! That means it hurts.
Yeah. Right. Spider-Man has been hit by Rhino, Hulk, Morlun - I think even Juggernaut - and kept coming for more, but Captain America's blows are suddenly too powerful.
Sure.Cap was bleeding so bad he was about to pass out :rolleye:
But he was bleeding, and he lost his famous shield... Even you have to admit that he didn't exactly had the advantage.You havnet got scans of Spiderman dodging lasers while writing down a recipe, have you?
I think my grandmother has some scans. I'll ask her later.you are arguing that Spiderman is much faster than Cap, hes not.
How many times do I have to repeat myself ? I never said that. Spider-Man is definitely faster than Cap, but not that much faster.Well thats what most people accept but in all fairness if you use scans you cant even prove that Spiderman is faster, but that is not an unreasonable statement.
You know, you got it all wrong. The overwhelming majority seems to think Spider-Man is definitely faster. You think otherwise. That's fine, but it's up to you to prove it.So if there is not a big diference in speed and Cap has his own enhanced senses why cant skill bridge the gap.
The only - ONLY - thing CA has that Spider-Man hasn't, are his skills. All the rest goes to Spider-Man : strength, speed, reflexes, durability, agility, senses, pre-cog and so on. Well bare in mind one of the reasons why one person was shooting was because Cap was too fast.
Don't go assuming things..http://img230.imageshack.us/img230/7056/wolvcapa20304cn4.jpg
http://img231.imageshack.us/img231/6029/wolvcapa205mv9.jpg
If you look at the scans above this more impressive than Spidermans feat. Admitedly its not as flashy but heres why its more impressive.
It's nowhere as impressive. It's CA running into a tunnel, carrying two people. He didn't dodge, he just grabbed them and ran into a tunnel.
It wasn't as flashy either by the way.
Originally posted by Alfheim
Why would they? 😕 Furthermore if Ben Reily and Spiderman said the same thing you would take that into account.Er because Spiderman isnt much faster than him and Cap has studied his style.
and thats another thing which isnt that much beter than Caps.
Yeah I would I'm not saying that Ben or Pete could take Cap in H2H via skill but they are the true sources not a robot.
And its all well and good saying Cap has Studied Spidey's style, but really Spidey doesn't exactly have one he bounces around attacking, how does Cap always know what Spidey is going to do when Spidey might just do something totally random?
Besides Are we forgetting one thing Spider-man doesn't even have to go H2H he has webbing, and unlike wolverine Cap doesn't have the luxury of easily cutting himself free, any position he is in and he is stuck. Sure Cap can dodge the webbing, but for how long? it is going to be far easier for Spider-man just to web cap up than it is for Cap to KO Spider-man.
Originally posted by Caps Conscience
By timing Spideys movements Cap can do this because he has enhanced senses and he times bullets all the time. Also this is what slower skilled boxers do to beat their faster opponents. <---just an example so you don't think I'm talking out my anus.
Well sure but like I said Spider-man's style isn't really a style, you can study the basic of it but other than that you really won't know what he'll do next. Sure Cap can do this for bullets etc cause he knows exactly what they are going to do, he doesn't have that luxury with Pete.
And yeah the boxing example only takes you so far, because well boxing doesn't exactly have an erratic style like Spidey's fighting.
Originally posted by Kid Kurdy
Well, according to your logic, Spider-Man can beat Thor, because the robot clone beat him.Don't complain, I'm only using your logic.
Beating Thor could be PIS BUT:
1. When the robot fought Spiderman it could have gone either way.
2. If it was the robot saying it on its own we could discount it but since the robot was evenly matched with Spiderman AND the current Spiderman says he cant take Cap in H2H i still counts as evidence.
Originally posted by Kid KurdyNo, if you say 1+1=2, this thread wouldn't be as long as it is now, cuz everybody would agree.
Thats not the point. Nevermind.
Originally posted by Kid KurdyYeah. Right. Spider-Man has been hit by Rhino, Hulk, Morlun - I think even Juggernaut - and kept coming for more, but Captain America's blows are suddenly too powerful.
Sure.
Cap has Koed Rhino, Hyde, Thunderball. Has serioously winded Executioner and has knocked Namor flat on his back....and? DD has taken shots from the Hulk and the explanation for that is that he can role with the punches.
Originally posted by Kid KurdyBut he was bleeding,
Barely, you wanna make a big deal out of this.
Originally posted by Kid Kurdyand he lost his famous shield... Even you have to admit that he didn't exactly had the advantage.]
Yeah and Spiderman was numb in the legs. Why do you think Cap did that to him? Spiderman will move more slowly. Furthermore in this fight Spiderman does not have:
1. His mechanical arms
2. A suit giving him more resistance to blows.
Which means in thsi fight Cap will not be cut and Caps punches would have hurt even more.
Originally posted by Kid KurdyHow many times do I have to repeat myself ? I never said that. Spider-Man is definitely faster than Cap, but not that much faster.
Fair enough.
Originally posted by Kid KurdyYou know, you got it all wrong. The overwhelming majority seems to think Spider-Man is definitely faster. You think otherwise. That's fine, but it's up to you to prove it.
So do I.
Originally posted by Kid KurdyThe only - ONLY - thing CA has that Spider-Man hasn't, are his skills. All the rest goes to Spider-Man : strength, speed, reflexes, durability, agility, senses, pre-cog and so on.
So that can bridge tha gap.
Originally posted by Kid KurdyDon't go assuming things..
Er the guys said "Where did he go".
Originally posted by Kid KurdyIt's nowhere as impressive. It's CA running into a tunnel, carrying two people. He didn't dodge, he just grabbed them and ran into a tunnel.
I knew this was gonna happen. Let me try again.
1. The guys who Spiderman was dodging were just ordinary Policeman. try to take on board these guys had:
a Better equipment
b Better training
c Had enhancements
d. There were more of them
2. He had to carry Wolverine and Carol
3. No he didnt dodge the bullets but he had to react to people who were vastly superior to the police. He didnt just "run" anybody with slower reflexes would have got shot. 🤨
4. If you want to be like that Spiderman isnt doddging aither he is just bouncing off walls so fast that they can get a bead on him. Its similar the difference is that Spiderman is bouncing off walls but Cap is running.
Originally posted by Kid KurdyIt wasn't as flashy either by the way.
not it wasnt but you obvoulsy missed the point. 🤨
Originally posted by Sparkz
Well sure but like I said Spider-man's style isn't really a style, you can study the basic of it but other than that you really won't know what he'll do next.
Thats nonsense. Its a style its just his own unique style
Originally posted by Sparkz
Sure Cap can do this for bullets etc cause he knows exactly what they are going to do, he doesn't have that luxury with Pete.
Of course not thats why Spiderman said hes studied me to a T (or something like that).
Of course Cap cant. Cap has stuided an alien martial art in one day all of a sudden Spidermans fighting style is too compliacted 🤨
Originally posted by Sparkz
And yeah the boxing example only takes you so far, because well boxing doesn't exactly have an erratic style like Spidey's fighting.
Cap knows more than boxing......
Originally posted by Alfheim
1. The guys who Spiderman was dodging were just ordinary Policeman. try to take on board these guys had:a Better equipment
b Better training
c Had enhancements
d. There were more of them2. He had to carry Wolverine and Carol
3. No he didnt dodge the bullets but he had to react to people who were vastly superior to the police. He didnt just run anybody with slower reflexes would have got shot. 🤨
4. Even though those other guys with Spiderman were firing bullets. Spiderman strength came into alot. He used his strength to bounce off walls and out of the window.
not it wasnt but you obvoulsy missed the point. 🤨
Well no offence but every single street leveler could have done what Cap did in that scan, hell Tony Stark has managed to leap behind cover from hired merc's before (granted he wasn't carrying anyone but still), What Spider-man did only a select few could have done( unless they weren't carrying someone then they probably could have)
Originally posted by Alfheim
Thats nonsense. Its a style its just his own unique styleOf course not thats why Spiderman said hes studied me to a T (or something like that).
Of course Cap cant. Cap has stuided an alien martial art in one day all of a sudden Spidermans fighting style is too compliacted 🤨
Cap knows more than boxing......
The difference is a martial artist has actual moves to learn master watch etc, does Spider-man have moves? not really he just bounces around punching and kicking with some fancy acrobatics thrown in their too. How can you study that and say "he's bouncing around that means he's going to punch me...<<thwap>> but he kicked me last time he bounced around he punched his fighting style has completely changed" you see how easy it would be to confuse what Spidey would do next, while an MA can be sort of read as the start of moves or fighting techniques can be recognised.
Originally posted by Sparkz
Well no offence but every single street leveler could have done what Cap did in that scan, hell Tony Stark has managed to leap behind cover from hired merc's before (granted he wasn't carrying anyone but still), What Spider-man did only a select few could have done( unless they weren't carrying someone then they probably could have)
Yeah but you missed the point. I am pointing out the ways in which Caps example is superior to the Scan KK posted.
Originally posted by Sparkz
The difference is a martial artist has actual moves to learn master watch etc, does Spider-man have moves? not really he just bounces around punching and kicking with some fancy acrobatics thrown in their too. How can you study that and say "he's bouncing around that means he's going to punch me...<<thwap>> but he kicked me last time he bounced around he punched his fighting style has completely changed" you see how easy it would be to confuse what Spidey would do next, while an MA can be sort of read as the start of moves or fighting techniques can be recognised.
Of course Spiderman has moves. Its just not a formal martial art. Even if Spiderman is not consicouly thinking there is a form and structure to what he does. Hes obvoulsy has certain methods of fighting he prefers and techniques he will use in ceratin situations.
