cap vs spider-man

Originally posted by marvelprince
So you don't think anyone who's not bulletproof or higher on the durability scale can take Cap?

Yeah and? Now do you want to answer the question?

Originally posted by marvelprince

Who are not bulletproof IIRC

Whats IIRC? Not sure that it matters.

Originally posted by marvelprince

But if you look at Cap's face there's nothing to say Spider-Man can't cave it in with one shot.

You see this is the thing and I will need to get confirmation on this. Apparently DD has fought a non-mind controlled Spiderman before...I still think this is a similar thing with Spiderman if Cap was standing still then yeah he would most likely kill him with one shot. But Spidermn is not vastly superior in speed, Cap is vastly superior in skill and he has a shield. Cap can evade a good number of blows but not fpor ever. Also Cap does have superhuman durability, taking class 100 hits is taking it too far, but he does have superhuman durability.

Originally posted by marvelprince

Honestly, if Cap catches him off guard full on with a full power punch I think Cap can score a KO. Other than that, no.

Why does he need to catch him off guard? Cap is also capable of using startegy to catch Spiderman off guard if he wants. I also dont think its a coincedence that Iron Spidey was numb below the waist.
Eventhough Cap was losing how fast do you think somebody is going to move if their legs are numb? Not exactly a sure win but that evens things out a bit and this isnt Iron Spidey anymore.

Originally posted by marvelprince

Because its SS's powers allow ftl travel.

My point was this capt it up was giving me some crap saying its physically impossible. Travelling at SS speed and not time travelling is supposed to be physically impossible too.

Originally posted by marvelprince

I don't see epitome of human perfection = ftl movement and movement in space. If you want to look at ridiculous feats then I can say that Spider-Man can beat the heralds of Galactus (who are bulletproof btw)

Sorry im not budging. Considering that Cap can see bullets and evade bullets after they have been fired. I dont have a problem with him doddging lasers in zero gravity.

Assuming that his reflexes would be the same in zero gravity eventhough his mobility is much reduced and since lighting is supposed to be the width of the pencil, Cap moving out of the way before ithe laser fires is how I see it. He has to move a pencil width of space before it fires.

Zero gravity in comics is probably like alot of stuff in comics...different. Balck holes dont behave exactly the way are supposed to in real life either.

Originally posted by marvelprince

Forget it.

Ok.

Originally posted by marvelprince

K

Ok

Originally posted by marvelprince

Cap requires much more to take down Spider-Man than vice versa. MUCH more

No it does not require MUCH more. Its not goin to be easy but you make it sound like hes fighting Quicksilver. Spiderman is not too fast for him to hit, furthermore nerve strikes dont just knock out he can use it to reduce mobility, if he has done it in his legs he can do it to other parts of his body. Spiderman aint dumb but Cap also stans a good chance of him setting him up, plus Spidermans durability isnt that amazing either.

Originally posted by marvelprince

Was pretty sure I said I wasn't even factoring it in my analysis. Take that up with Metalman if you have to.

Ok.

Originally posted by marvelprince

Kinda the way Spider-Man is superior to Cap in alot of his attributes?

No. The only thing Spiderman is vastly superior to Cap is in strength.

Originally posted by Soljer
Spider-man has shown vulnerability to nerve strikes in the past.

Nerve strikes delievered by non-super-powered-beings.

Captain America has shown a great affinity for using nerve strikes in the past.

Not commenting on who would win the fight, that's obvious. Just commenting on Captain America's actual ABILITY to put Spiderman down or not.

Im not saying who wins the majority, I might have changed my mind, but are you still saying Cap can win the majority.

I haven't read the all the posts (too many).
But Spiderman can see bullets in slow motion. How fast do you think he can see Cap moving? Still motion!
His reflexes operates up to 40x that of a human. Which means bullets are moving about 20-30mph in his mind and Cap isn't moving at all.

Second, if a bullet is fired at close range at Cap's head then will the bullet go through his skull? Yes is the right answer.
So, if Spidey sees Cap in still motion (where cap is just a sitting helpless frozen duck) and punches faster and stronger than bullet speed and force. Then I wonder how Cap is going to survive a fist lodged in his brain. Thus making this a no fight.

Originally posted by h1a8
I haven't read the all the posts (too many).
But Spiderman can see bullets in slow motion. How fast do you think he can see Cap moving? Still motion!
His reflexes operates up to 40x that of a human. Which means bullets are moving about 20-30mph in his mind and Cap isn't moving at all.

Cap has said he can see bullets. Cap isnt a normal human hes not 40 times faster than Cap. Cap in the mostt accurate descripton is enhanced human, hell he can even be considered superhuman since he can lift 1100lbs with ease.

Originally posted by h1a8

Second, if a bullet is fired at close range at Cap's head then will the bullet go through his skull? Yes is the right answer.
So, if Spidey sees Cap in still motion (where cap is just a sitting helpless frozen duck) and punches faster and stronger than bullet speed and force. Then I wonder how Cap is going to survive a fist lodged in his brain. Thus making this a no fight.

All crap see above and read some posts.

Spide-man takes this 10/10 under normal conditions, without CIS. Webbing would do it easily.

Originally posted by Jyppe
Webbing would do it easily.

No it wouldnt it doesnt even move as fast as a bullet.

Originally posted by Alfheim
No it wouldnt it doesnt even move as fast as a bullet.

But Spiderman can cover a lot bigger area with his webbing. And his speed and fighting style would help him to do that.

Originally posted by Alfheim
Cap has said he can see bullets. Cap isnt a normal human hes not 40 times faster than Cap. Cap in the mostt accurate descripton is enhanced human, hell he can even be considered superhuman since he can lift 1100lbs with ease.

All crap see above and read some posts.

So you never seen Spider-man move in relation to a bullet? He seems to move as fast as the bullet itself (or faster). Go to spidey's respect thread to see. Even though it isn't cannon, but look a certain episode of MTV's spiderman. They will show him slowing down time to almost a halt and in which he moves as fast as the bullet he's dodging. The reason I've mentioned a non canon feat such as MTV's spiderman because Bendis (the author of Ultimate Spiderman) is responsible for writing the episodes.

Marvel says his reflexes operates up to 40x that of a human (20 on average though). Divide a bullet's speed by 40 and you will get 20-30mph (peak running speed). Hell I can dodge a speeding runner. I can even dodge a 60mph baseball pitch with ease. Even without spider sense cap couldn't and shouldn't hit him.

And who cares if cap is slightly superhuman (Even though he is not). How do you know how much a peak human (a human of physical perfection) can lift? There has never been a human of physical perfection before to compare with (maybe Samson of the bible). So it is feasible for a peak human to lift 1100lbs without having being superhuman.

I don't see any way Cap gets out of the time frozen duck situation. Even if cap is as fast as a bullet (in which he's not) he still couldn't beat spider-man (at his best of course).

Originally posted by Alfheim
No it wouldnt it doesnt even move as fast as a bullet.

Maybe not as fast a bullet...but fast enough? I think so.

http://img360.imageshack.us/my.php?image=spidermanwebshield8pw.jpg
Those bullets were already cutting through the air, and Spidey was able to construct a web shield fast enough to block em all.

http://img360.imageshack.us/my.php?image=spidermanwebcatch9kr.jpg
Seriously, look how close that bone is to her face before Spidey stops it. Think about how fast that bone was already going, it's momentum and velocity were already strong. The webbing had to cover the same distance in a MUCH shorter amount of time in order to stop the bone the way the webbing did.

http://img360.imageshack.us/my.php?image=spidermanmissilecatch0pr.jpg
Same deal here. Doom is a good three feet from that missle launcher. And yet Spidey was able to stop it in mid-air before it reached him.

And it's not like he's going to dodge one of these web-attacks:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v60/Deadpool/Building/Building_08.jpg

And when Cap DOES get webbed, what's he going to do about it? Break free? 😕

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=6432145

http://img111.imageshack.us/my.php?image=spideyvsnewvenom49ce.jpg

http://img503.imageshack.us/my.php?image=13ve7.jpg

Cue the "He dodges lasers! Lasers in zero gravity, I say!" bullshit.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Cue the "He dodges lasers! Lasers in zero gravity, I say!" bullshit.

Explain why its BS. I have already explained that it can still be done because comic book physics are different, if you keep screaming BS it just means you cant express yourself in a coherent manner.

It's utterly stupid. Coherent enough for you?

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
It's utterly stupid. Coherent enough for you?

So basically as I said before you've got nothing.

I'll reply to your posts tommroow metalmanx im feeling abit off right now.

Originally posted by Alfheim
So basically as I said before you've got nothing.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
I don't need anything to show it's utterly stupid. It just is. Like the "feat" of throwing a shield overarm at a missile. Purified refined 'stupid'.

Its stupid that WW should be able to get killed by bullets and arrows.

In hindsight I dont have a problem with him hitting a missle they guy can use his shield to hit bullets in mid path.

Considering a speed of a bullet can be 850 m/s and a missle can be 896 m/s I dont see the problem. But you're probably just gonna tell me Cap cant hit bullets in mid path either.

Originally posted by Alfheim
Explain why its BS. I have already explained that it can still be done because comic book physics are different, if you keep screaming BS it just means you cant express yourself in a coherent manner.

Seriously though, Alfheim. I love Cap. I really do.

But even based solely on comic book physics, it is literally impossible for even Cap to dodge lasers in zero gravity. Did it ever occur to you that he HAS NOTHING TO PUSH OFF OF? Seriously, dude. There is no way for him to maneuver his body in such a way with some sort of friction with which to move himself.

Hell, man. Spider-Man couldn't dodge lasers in zero gravity. That make you feel better about it? 🙁

And xmarks brings up another good Cap-bullshit-feat. Throwing his shield to catch up with a missile that's already travelling at an insane speed. Missiles like that can travel anywhere between 860 m/s and 6706 m/s, or nearly 2,000 mph up to 15,000 mph. 😬 There is no way, not even for Cap, for him to throw his shield that fast, not even to catch the slowest of missiles.

Edit: I fixed the missile speeds. I checked again and found a more accurate source.

Originally posted by Alfheim
Its stupid that WW should be able to get killed by bullets and arrows.

In hindsight I dont have a problem with him hitting a missle they guy can use his shield to hit bullets in mid path.

Considering a speed of a bullet can be 850 m/s and a missle can be 896 m/s I dont see the problem. But you're probably just gonna tell me Cap cant hit bullets in mid path either.

...He can't. ❌

He can throw his shield to intercept bullets that haven't been shot yet (like to cover a teammate before an enemy opens fire on him/her), ✅, but he can't throw it fast enough to deflect a bullet that's already cutting through the air for its intended target. 😬

Surface to air missiles have Mach speeds. In order for a projectile to catch up to a missile that had already been launched the projectile would have to be traveling faster than the missile taking into account relative velocity. Unlike a missile a shield doesn't have an in-built motor to accelerate it to speed midflight; the maximum speed it can attain is essentially at the at the point at which it is thrown, gravity and friction will slow it down.

Bullshit is bullshit.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Surface to air missiles have Mach speeds. In order for a projectile to catch up to a missile that had already been launched the projectile would have to be traveling [b]faster than the missile taking into account relative velocity. Unlike a missile a shield doesn't have an in-built motor to accelerate it to speed midflight; the maximum speed it can attain is essentially at the at the point at which it is thrown, gravity and friction will slow it down.

Bullshit is bullshit. [/B]

Exactly. Check out the stats I threw down in my previous post.

Originally posted by Metalmanx
Seriously though, Alfheim. I love Cap. I really do.

But even based solely on comic book physics, it is literally impossible for even Cap to dodge lasers in zero gravity. Did it ever occur to you that he HAS NOTHING TO PUSH OFF OF? Seriously, dude. There is no way for him to maneuver his body in such a way with some sort of friction with which to move himself.

Yes im aware of that you dont understand what im saying. You are talking about in the real world. Zero gravity in comics must be different because there are so many things that are different in comics. For example people do not time travel when they hit light speed in comics either. Im not saying Cap has cosmic powers im saying physics are different.

Originally posted by Metalmanx

Hell, man. Spider-Man couldn't dodge lasers in zero gravity. That make you feel better about it? 🙁

No I think if Cap could do it Spiderman would do better.

Originally posted by Metalmanx

And xmarks brings up another good Cap-bullshit-feat. Throwing his shield to catch up with a missle that's already travelling at an insane speed. Missiles like that can travel anywhere between 860 m/s and 3350 m/s, or nearly 2,000 mph up to 7,500 mph. 😬 There is no way, not even for Cap, for him to throw his shield that fast.

Its not a good point. If a bullet can travel from 896 m/s to 1550m/s and a missle can travel from 860 m/s to 3350m/s and you know cap can intercept bullets in mid path what was the speed of the missle?

Originally posted by Metalmanx
...He can't. ❌

He can throw his shield to intercept bullets that haven't been shot yet (like to cover a teammate before an enemy opens fire on him/her), ✅, but he can't throw it fast enough to deflect a bullet that's already cutting through the air for its intended target. 😬

No im sure he has done this before.

Originally posted by Alfheim
Yes im aware of that you dont understand what im saying. You are talking about in the [B]real world. Zero gravity in comics must be different because there are so many things that are different in comics. For example people do not time travel when they hit light speed in comics either. Im not saying Cap has cosmic powers im saying physics are different.

No I think if Cap could do it Spiderman would do better.

Its not a good point. If a bullet can travel from 896 m/s to 1550m/s and a missle can travel from 860 m/s to 3350m/s and you know cap can intercept bullets in mid path what was the speed of the missle? [/B]

Check that post again. I edited the speeds after I found a more accurate website. ✅